The second day of the draft kicks off at 11 am ct and is available on mlb.com. I'll update this thread with scouting reports and other links as the Cubs pick.
61. Houston Astros: Nolan Fontana
62. Oakland A's: Bruce Maxwell
63. Minnesota Twins: Mason Melotakis
64. Seattle Mariners: Joe DeCarlo
65. Baltimore Orioles: Branden Kline
66. Kansas City Royals: Sam Selman
67. Chicago Cubs: Duane Underwood
Underwood was ranked 104 by Baseball America and is out of Pope HS, Marietta, Ga.:
A Georgia signee, Underwood has plenty going for him. He has a quick arm and athletic frame at 6-foot-3, 210 pounds, and if he winds up in Athens, he has a chance to contribute as both a hitter (he's a solid-average runner) and on the mound. He's young for the draft class as well, as he turns 18 in July. Pro scouts see him as a pitcher and a potential first-rounder on the right day, but that had not happened often enough in his senior season. Underwood at his best has a fastball that sits in the 91-94 mph range and touches 97-98. He has shown the ability to spin a breaking ball, though his curve often is soft in the 73-75 mph range and he tends to overthrow it. He has a firm but effective changeup, and this spring it has been his best pitch, in part because it's the pitch he controls the best. Underwood's fastball command has been erratic this spring, and his velocity often drops off quickly into the 87-92 mph range, and he hasn't shown much feel for pitching this spring. His mechanics are sound, though at times he loses his tempo and rushes his delivery. Scouts also want to see him handle adversity better. Scouts like Underwood and he had some supplemental-round buzz, but his inconsistent spring could knock him back a bit.
I'll only update Cubs picks from this point forward and add additional info on picks as I find it.
1. Albert Almora
1s. Pierce Johnson
1s. Paul Blackburn
2. Duane Underwood
3. Ryan McNeil
The athletic McNeil started slowly this spring after playing basketball into mid-February, but his stock has been on the rebound. Early in the spring, his mechanics, command and fastball velocity were off and his slider was flat. His velocity picked back up down the stretch, sitting at 90-91 mph and touching 93 at times, and he has a chance to pitch with a solid-average fastball as he adds strength to his 6-foot-3 frame. He has done a better job staying on top of the ball lately, lending his fastball more life and improving his command. His slider shows flashes of being a solid-average pitch with good shape, but other times it gets slurvy or flat. He also has improved his feel for a changeup, though it's still a work in progress like the rest of his repertoire. Some clubs soured on McNeil early in the spring, but a team that likes his frame, athleticism and arm strength could take him around the fifth round and try to buy him out of a commitment to Long Beach State.
4. Josh Conway, RHP, Coastal Carolina (BA rk. 208)
Conway was on his way to being an early-round pick before leaving a start against Liberty and needing Tommy John surgery. Against the Flames, scouts were buzzing as Conway was sitting 94-96 early with a nasty slider, but he left in the fourth inning and his fastball was down into the high 80s. Signs point to him being a reliever because of his slight, 6-foot, 175-pound frame and inverted elbow, but when he's healthy he has the makings of two plus pitches. He was 4-1, 2.14 with 50 strikeouts and 18 walks in 55 innings.
5. Anthony Prieto, LHP, Americas HS, El Paso (BA rk. 492)
Prieto barely pitched in high school until his junior season and joined his first travel team last summer, when he reportedly reached the mid-90s at a tournament in Phoenix. Scouts haven't seen that kind of velocity out of the 5-foot-11, 180-pounder this season, when he missed the first six weeks with a forearm strain. Since returning, Prieto mostly has dealt fastballs at 88-90 mph. Though he's not physical, he generates his heat with an effortless delivery that allows him to throw strikes with three pitches. Both his changeup and curveball show promise. He has signed with Howard (Texas) JC.
This seems like quite a reach at pick 164.
6. Trey Lang, RHP, Gateway (Ariz.) CC (BA rk. 186)
Lang played both ways at Skyline High in Mesa, Ariz., and at Northern Illinois before transferring closer to home at Gateway CC. Head coach Rob Shabansky saw Lang as an outfielder with power potential, but when he ran short on pitchers during fall ball asked if Lang wanted to take the mound. His first pitch was clocked at 93 mph, and Shabansky knew that's where Lang belonged. Lang has a sturdy, muscular build at 6-foot-3, 235 pounds, after trimming down from 260 pounds at Northern Illinois. Lang has continued to play both ways for the Geckos and served as their closer this year, so he was sometimes tough for scouts to see. His fastball was in the 92-94 mph range and topped out at 96 at its best, and his slider was a wipeout pitch, but his stuff faded down the stretch. His fastball was in the 87-90 mph range and his slider wasn't as firm. That's understandable given his inexperience on the mound and the fact that he was also spending time in the outfield and at DH. A team that is patient with Lang could wind up with a quality bullpen arm. He is committed to New Mexico but most scouts think he'll sign.
7.
Comments
apparently teams can call timeouts today during the draft if needed.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
In case their hand gets stuck drawing a name from a hat?
WaLi22Quote Reply
@ WaLi22:
I don’t know. You’ve got a draft board and if someone takes your guy you go to the next one. Not that hard. I think it’s funny and I hope the Cubs are the first to call a timeout.
mb21Quote Reply
I hope Houston calls a timeout. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I understand NFL needing more time if your guy gets picked because of trade options. But you can’t trade MLB picks so it seems like an unnecessary waste of time. So I’m sure the Cubs will use a timeout. Hell, they’ve been wasting my time all year.
MuckerQuote Reply
If the Cubs call a timeout, Joe Ricketts will buy 20 TV spots blaming it on Obama.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mucker:
I know. I have no doubt the Cubs will call a few timeouts today.
mb21Quote Reply
Nolan Fontana
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Isn’t he the lost 6th member of Menudo?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I like the rapid fire much better. Bruce Maxwell to the A’s.
mb21Quote Reply
They have to regroup after Tampa goes on an 8-0 run. Defense!
/wrong sport
Mobile RiceQuote Reply
63. Minnesota Twins: Mason Melotakis
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I don’t think they should be allowed to do that. Ruins the purity of the game. Removes the human element. How much more special when they accidentally blurt out the wrong name? Plus, that gives them a chance to handle the situation in a feel-good moment and that’s nice for everyone. I’m totally against expanded draft timeouts in any form.
joshQuote Reply
64. Seattle Mariners: Joe DeCarlo
mb21Quote Reply
65. Baltimore Orioles: Branden Kline
Cubs up in two, Please call a timeout. Please.
mb21Quote Reply
Baltimore just got who Law said was best college pitcher remaining
NateQuote Reply
66. Kansas City Royals: Sam Selman
Tanner Rahier still on the board. Take him.
mb21Quote Reply
Cubs up: Bart Simpson, utility IF, Texas State Univ., brother of Hayden Simpson
NateQuote Reply
67. Chicago Cubs: Duane Underwood
mb21Quote Reply
Duane Underwear. Fine with me I guess.
NateQuote Reply
@ Nate:
It’s pretty much guesswork at this point, right?
joshQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Another power arm. Potential for three plus pitches, apparently. Upside pick.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
possibly 3 ML average pitches? Sounds like he’ll top out at AA. Should’ve gone higher upside.
NateQuote Reply
Scouting report and mlb.com video for Underwood added to post.
mb21Quote Reply
@ josh:
I think it was mostly guesswork yesterday too
NateQuote Reply
.
NateQuote Reply
I’d have gone after Rahier. Top rated prospect available for both Mayo and Baseball America.
mb21Quote Reply
Dale (KY)
.
NateQuote Reply
Maybe they plan to throw the bank at the first rounders and are looking for cheaper projects from here on out?
Mobile RiceQuote Reply
From the BA scouting report it does sound like he needs to build up stamina because his velocity drops of quickly.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mobile Rice:
I don’t think they have to. Almora was ranked 7th by BA and 9th by mlb.com so I think he’ll get slot and the other two will probably get slot as well.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Please visit my new baseball draft website: isheslotornot.com.
Marilyn HagertyQuote Reply
@ Mucker:
Also in the NFL your picks hit the league a lot sooner so you might pick to a need and not the best player. In the MLB it takes years for the picks to mature into someone that plays in the big league and there is a high failure rate, so you just pick the best on the board and move on.
Regarding Underwood, I like the pick. Young HS player with good stuff. His problem seems to be consistency which I think would come as he gets older. I also read he does poor after an error or with men on bases, which is something I think would improve with age.
WaLiQuote Reply
i like the Underwood pick
dylanjQuote Reply
Cubs on the clock. Call a fucking timeout!
mb21Quote Reply
Post updated
mb21Quote Reply
Ryan McNeil…just a scouting video for now.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
big frame for McNeil already. He pitches in the 90’s.
dylanjQuote Reply
Added a video
mb21Quote Reply
Apparently the one video can’t be seen but on mlb.com. The other one works fine. Weird.
mb21Quote Reply
sounds awfully fucking familiar. Wilken strikes again?
NateQuote Reply
@ Nate:
Hey, at least he didn’t go first round!
/bright side
Rice CubeQuote Reply
on McNeil
NateQuote Reply
Let’s not complain about someone with upside getting drafted in the 3rd round instead of the 5th.
jtsunamiQuote Reply
http://www.theadobepress.com/articles/2012/06/04/sports/sport24.txt
article on McNeil. Big time athlete which Wilken loves who has a frame you can grow into.
Nate- keep in mind the guys who rank for BA aren’t in a front office. Once you get to these rounds is about how your own evaluations not what BA or Mayo think.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Nate:
There’s always a crapshoot, but it seems like the top few picks are usually standouts at the level they are on. Not a gaurantee, but possibly less of a risk?
Someone should do an analysis of how these rankings play out over time. My guess would be tha the top ranked have a higher percentage of MLB contributors, and at some point it just flattens out, but maybe it’s flat all over, or the bump isn’t very high. I dunno.
joshQuote Reply
http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/06/05/cosell-talks-the-perception-and-reality-of-jay-cutler/
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ josh:
They’ve done these studies for sure. I think you get the most average WAR out of first and second round picks (sandwich round picks included) and then it looks like it falls off a cliff except for that random blip around the 13th and 20th rounds where you find Pujols and Ryne Sandberg.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’m mostly just being sarcastic and trying to find negative/worst case scenario things to say.
NateQuote Reply
Josh if you want to see how the draft turns out KG has been tweeting out the best results ever from each draft spot. Its pretty depressing .Even in the top 10 its pretty bleak. This thing is the final frontier for front offices to figure out. The failure rate is so high.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
I wonder how many of the people drafted so far do not like to win..
WaLiQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
On the bright side, I think Derek Jeter was drafted sixth overall…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
get your Bears bullshit outta here MO. Nobody cares about the 3rd best team in the NFC North!
dylanjQuote Reply
Next step is to shore up the minor league development system so 12% of their prospects pan out, instead of 10%
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ jtsunami:
Agreed. It’s not an obvious reach, and the guy seems very projectable.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
Fuck off. Enjoy Alex Smith’s return to being Alex Smith.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
so was Barry Bonds.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Nate:
I’m not a big fan of that pick. There’s just no reason to reach down that low (and pay him more) when you could grab someone else. Pretty bad pick. Especially when you factor in that he’s likely a reliever and would still have to improve his stamina to do that. And his control. Not a 3rd pick by any means.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
But he likes to win!!
WaLiQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
i know i’ll enjoy being the in the playoffs again. You on the other hand………..
dylanjQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Meh. I think THoyer are just stockpiling power arms. The Cubs’ system is pretty pitching depleted.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
dylanj wrote:
True, but they base their rankings on what scouts for MLB teams tell them. If you have two reputable sources that list him as a 5th rounder then he’s probably a 5th rounder. Is it a big deal they took him in the 3rd? No, but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t point out it’s quite a reach to take a guy two rounds earlier than he’s expected to go.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
bad pick based on what? BA saying he’s a 5th and not a 3rd round pick? If the guys are BA were that great they would work for the Cubs or some other team. At this point nobody knows how these fuckers will turn out so its hard to say bad pick vs good pick unless they draft Hayden Simpson. Then you know.
dylanjQuote Reply
the kid pitched in the area code games and I think only like 50 people nationwide get an invite to that. So its not like he is a major reach.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
He was pretty good at baseball.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
I figured it was probably more depressing than you’d want to admit. I’m sure someone is already on this idea too, but it would probably be worth going back, trying to categorize the skills that scouts look for and see which, if any, correlates to success in the big leagues. If there aren’t any, then someone needs to figure out a new approach to scouting. Maybe there’s just no way to be sure without sending them through the gauntlet (i.e., minor leagues). That’s probably the reality.
joshQuote Reply
but given our recent luck with Dillon Maples and Simpson its likely he never throws another pitch
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Yeah, but among the 80 or so players better than him at least 5 or 6 of them are power arms. This is a guy the Cubs could have taken in the 4th and probably even the 5th. It’s like fantasy baseball. Say you know that Joey Votto is the best position player (I don’t know if he is or not, but you know what I mean). You’re in a league that values him in the 5th or 6th round. Do you take him in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd? No, you wait until the 4th round to grab him. It’s the same thing that was wrong with the Tyler Colvin and Hayden Simpson picks. They could have either of them in a later round and they could also have had a better player in their system had they waited.
mb21Quote Reply
Do non-signing third picks net an extra pick the following season for compensation?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I might as well start getting excited about Bears football. SUPERBOWL!!
joshQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
Go ahead and count those chickens.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
But you have no problem claiming this pick or that pick is a good one. Based on what we know, it’s not a good pick. They could have had him a round or two later. I never cared how the Simpson pick turned out because it didn’t matter. They could have drafted him later. And drafted a better prospect than Simpson.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I really don’t give enough of a shit about players who have a 90% rate of failure to get upset about this pick. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
they dont know that because teams dont draft based on the BA top 200.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ mb21:
This draft isn’t getting the Seal of Approval, is it?
joshQuote Reply
They probably figured that they could slot or underslot him to free up money to pay for the guys who actually deserve it. That’s my conspiracy theory anyway.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Especially if the compensation still exists (I think it’s a comp round like the one that just happened rather than spot+1) but I’m also not sure if they forfeit the money so that they can’t actually spend it on Almora or Johnson or some other guy later on.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Ever wanted to see Bronn sing a song in a letter jacket? Now you can! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5V8ecsrxeY&feature=share&noredirect=1
dylanjQuote Reply
my final two cents is this- if Theo Epstein can’t put a list together better than one I can access online for free then we are fucked.
dylanjQuote Reply
BA and Mayo aren’t scouts. They’re a hell of a lot better at it than you or I, but they get their information from scouts. It’s not like they’re sitting there throwing darts and putting players on their lists. They talk to dozens and dozens of scouts for actual MLB teams. Is it perfect? Far from it. Hayden Simpson may have been the best player in the 2010 draft. It was entirely possible. Was he even one of the top 50 players at the time of the draft? No. That’s why it was a bad pick.
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
Obviously he can. But so can Jim Hendry. Theo isn’t a magic pill that makes the Cubs good or their drafts awesome.
mb21Quote Reply
Josh Conway- TJ so we wont see him until next year at best
dylanjQuote Reply
scouting report and video added for Conway. I like this guy a lot. 4th round pick, but a guy who could have been a 1st rounder were it not for TJS. If he recovers this is a great pick.
mb21Quote Reply
New guy:
Rice CubeQuote Reply
josh wrote:
I don’t dislike it. I’m not excited, but that’s mostly because it’s a weak draft. I’d have taken Appel with the 1st pick, but I don’t really think he’s that much better than Albert Almora. I really like their 2nd pick last night and the 4th rounder they just took.
mb21Quote Reply
Sounds to me like a poor man’s Mike Leake. Resounding “meh.”
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
That was in 2011. He’s back already. Dropped to the 4th because his velocity was down.
mb21Quote Reply
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/mark_appel/
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Ah, the fact that they lose the slot money if they don’t sign the pick blows my conspiracy theory out of the water.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/mlb_draft_everybody_is_going_to_be_an_above_average_player/
mb21Quote Reply
no md it just happened a few months ago. http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/2012/04/josh-conway-out-for-the-season/
dylanjQuote Reply
@ mb21:
It did seem weak overall. No one that anyone was super excited about, like Starsburg or Harper.
joshQuote Reply
Thanks, DJ. I thought it was last year for some reason. I’ll bet he doesn’t sign and returns to CCU for his senior season.
mb21Quote Reply
@ josh:
When I was reading that the Astros were likely taking Appel I started to wonder who the worst number 1 pick at the time of the draft was. He just wasn’t a number 1 pick IMO. I don’t know that Carlos Correa was either, but I liked him a lot better than Appel.
mb21Quote Reply
its an interesting scenario MD- if your a kid with that injury and you get offered 100k + and a chance at a pro career do you roll the dice? Since he is at a JC its not like he has a prestigious degree to fall back on. But he can make a lot more money to re-establishing himself. With the injury happening in late April he probably wont pitch a full season.
If it were me I would take the $
dylanjQuote Reply
I agree with the link MD posted and we talked about here last night- There is no way around this CBA. Boras can do what he wants but he has nothing to fight with anymore. If Houston really couldnt get a deal with Appel due to $ then Boras failed his client in a big big way.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
Not to mention the fact that I’d assume the rehab facilities for a pro-team would outrank that of a JC.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
I guess it comes down to what the Cubs offer. If I’m them I offer low and if he takes it, great. If not, no big deal.
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
That seems to make it a bad idea for the players to just take what the teams offer, in other words, it seems to hurt the player more than the team, unless the talent pools dissolve because the top guys choose football/basketball/careers in Sports Management over baseball.
joshQuote Reply
I don’t think the Astros went with Correa because they couldn’t afford Appel. It was clear he wasn’t a consensus number one and possibly even a bad choice to be picked first overall. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect the Astros to understand that and the fact they need offense more than anything tells me they never had much interest in him.
mb21Quote Reply
I wouldn’t be surprised to see teams sponsor indy league teams in some way and help send some of the players who want more money there for a year and then they could sign as free agents.
mb21Quote Reply
this will drive athletes away IMHO. Puerto Rico baseball went downhill fast once they were forced into the draft and I think we will see the same in the DR and the rest of Latin America with the world draft. All this fucking thing does is take money away from poor teenagers in the developing world and give it back to Joe Fucking Ricketts. To spend on his PAC attacking socialism.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
Baseball America’s slot chart says that pick goes for $343K.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Isn’t that what they’re trying to do now?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/baseball/story/2012-05-15/ncaa-mlb-ponder-partnership-on-scholarships/54977248/1
(dying laughing)
Edit: Sorry, MB, missed the free agent part of your post.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
I don’t think the overall talent in baseball is going to be affected by the CBA. If you think about the two sport guys, most of the top picks signed in baseball not because they could get whatever contract they wanted, but because they could get several million now rather than going to college for 3 years and risking injury playing a physical game. I don’t think that changes. Bubba Starling got a ton of money a year ago because he could, but does anyone really think he’d have turned down a slightly higher than slot offer of $3 million or more to risk getting injured playing college football? If football was his true love he might, but otherwise you’d have to be a complete idiot to turn that money down.
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
There should be no draft at all. Not in any sport. It’s an agreement between the veterans and the league and not between the players drafted and the league.
mb21Quote Reply
Prieto http://www.elpasotimes.com/sports/ci_20533715/americas-baseballs-anthony-prieto-late-bloomer-pitcher
dylanjQuote Reply
Prieto scouting report added
mb21Quote Reply
more http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_20776555/baseball-three-el-paso-area-players-hope-be?source=most_viewed
dylanjQuote Reply
the very little info I have would say I dont like this pick but again i dont know a fucking thing Im talking about.
dylanjQuote Reply
dylanj wrote:
This doesn’t mean the draft there caused the talent to go downhill. I don’t know if it did and I’d actually be surprised if that was the only factor involved, but correlation doesn’t equal causation. Baseball has had a draft since the 60s and blacks peaked in the mid 80s in baseball and have gone downhill since.
That said, the draft shouldn’t exist. It shouldn’t exist for PR and it shouldn’t exist for people in the US. The fact that Canadians have to enter the draft is laughable.
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
He’s certainly the least exciting player the Cubs have taken. We’ll forget about him in a year or two. He’s another one I think they could have gotten later, but I don’t know for sure.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I wonder if it creates more interest in independent leagues or something, where guys can sign as free agents and avoid the draft. Of course, that only works if you can get people out to see these independent teams. I’m thinking you start a new sport, Arena Baseball, it uses the same skills but is fast paced and showcases athletic ability. You get fans to come out, and the athletes get to showcase their skills for big league clubs. The MLB indirectly sponsors it with a similar system as what Japan has, where the team gets paid to release a player from his contract or something.
Now, all I need is $1Billion and I can get this idea off the ground.
joshQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Isn’t it basically a concession to shitty/poor teams? Otherwise, the yankees would just buy all the guys every year that we consider top 10 picks and basically be a baseball dictatorship.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
That’s kind of what I was thinking…without the draft, no one is lining up outside of Kauffman Stadium to play for the Royals. What would the alternative be to the draft?
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
The stories coming out of Sandusky jury selection are stultifying. Pennsylvanians must love child rape. I don’t see a Pennsylvania jury convicting him…but he looks to be facing federal charges now, so he’s going to prison one way or another.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ josh:
Yes, but it’s also a concession to the fans who think sports should be fair. They want their salary caps and all that other shit in sports, but don’t you dare put a salary cap on what they can earn.
Random fan: there should be a salary cap so it’s more fair.
me: I think your occupation should have a salary cap.
Random fan: that’s not fair. I don’t make millions.
me: Neither do most baseball player.
Random fan: but some do and they shouldn’t make that much.
You can’t win the fucking argument because it’s all based on how much they think the players should make and what they view as fair.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mikeakaleroy:
Free agency. Royals have to spend money. If they want to cry foul then they either move to a larger market where they’ll draw more revenue or we get rid of them.
mb21Quote Reply
Maybe it’s just me but baseball contracts for these young guys seem to really suck. They get paid peanuts compared to #1 picks in football and their contracts are usually a lot longer too.
MuckerQuote Reply
Boers and Bernstein are good on many things, but they are two tone-deaf motherfuckers when it come to baseball. Listening to them talk about baseball is like reading BCB.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
But there are only so many large markets out there. You’re gonna end up cutting the teams in the majors in half, and I’d imagine it would only get worse. In a few years you’d probably lose half/most of your small market teams, and gain an extra team in somewhere like New York or Chicago.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
NFL draft guys are on the big league team right away. These kids are going to Boise idaho for a few years (dying laughing).
dylanjQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I think what would happen would be the sport would just die. Honestly, I believe that. At some point the amount of revenue coming in to a team like the Yankees (as we’ve said before, they’re virtually the only team anyone outside the US even knows about) would be insurmountable. No team could ever catch up. No team could compete. They become a baseball monopoly. Fans quit watching, we kill off all small market teams because they can’t afford players, and soccer picks up momentum as the new sport.
joshQuote Reply
@ Mucker:
Longer career life is part of that. You make a decent wage (more than I make with my fancy-pants college degree) for a few years, hoping to break through, and if you do, you make a shit ton of money. Not as much as A-rod, but a lot of money, and over a much longer time period than a football player, without as much risk of a career-ending injury.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
that’s not at all what happens in international free agency
GWQuote Reply
@ mikeakaleroy:
the royals have actually brought in a lot of talent through ifa, iirc
GWQuote Reply
@ josh:
If what you and Mike say are true, and it might be, what other options does baseball have? It seems to me if there’s reason to think the sport will die then the draft is a good idea to save baseball. I love baseball and want it to exist long past my death, but I still don’t believe that we can force international players into a draft. I also don’t believe we can force 17 and 18 year olds in the US into a draft agreed upon not by them, but by MLB players.
It seems to me we all have a decision to reach if what you say is true: support the draft or don’t and see what happens. I’d hate to see baseball not exist, but I don’t love it so much that I think we should force 17 and 18 year olds into contracts without them having the same opportunity to find the best job that the rest of us have.
If you have a draft and Canada is already included, it’s only a matter of time before the international draft comes. I expect it comes before the end of this CBA. I don’t like it and won’t when it happens, but if the draft is necessary to save baseball then I expect many will support it.
mb21Quote Reply
@ josh:
FWIW, no professional soccer league has a draft, except the MLS. There’s definitely economic gaps in the tables, but it certainly hasn’t killed the sport to have all amateur talent be free agents.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
All I really know with regards to the draft is that I don’t believe for a moment it ruined baseball in Puerto Rico. It may be some small contributing factor, but that’s about it. I don’t believe a draft would ruin baseball in the DR or Venezuela either, but I still don’t want one.
mb21Quote Reply
there have been a lot of really smart people who disagree MD. Just google it and you will find article after article about it
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I don’t think it would kill baseball either. It might reduce the number of teams, but I think that could be good for baseball.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
You could make a similar argument for why the Mets just don’t arrange their own schedule and play teams they want to play. Shouldn’t they be allowed to make their own schedule and refuse to play interleague games? They can work it out with three or four other teams to just play them or something.
As far as I can tell, that’s how it used to work. Basically, as money became more of an issue, the teams all got together and decided on a gentleman’s agreement for how to organize the game. The thought being that this would make the sport more cohesive and interesting to fans, which bolsters everyone. Even if you’re the Royals, you fill the stadium when the Yankees come to town, or something.
It’s the same gentleman’s agreement that all teams agree they would rather sign young talent this way. The Yankees agree to it as much as the Royals, because the Yankees know that having other teams to play means they have constant revenue. They aren’t hurt enough by it to abandon it. It’s not just the players driving this, the teams want it too.
joshQuote Reply
@ mb21:
contra your point, MB, a nice comment from that HBT article:
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
You’d consolidate all the best talent into a smaller number of teams.
While I agree that everyone should have the right to find the best job that they can get at a fair wage, the fact that baseball contracts are so exorbitant (even 40th round picks get like a $100K bonus if I’m not mistaken) probably makes for a unique situation where normal market rules shouldn’t apply for the sake of competitive balance.
I’m actually kind of curious about the way international soccer (or football as it should be called) works. Could the same principles be applied easily to baseball? I imagine the best footballers in the world get paid at least as much as, say, Dan Uggla. (I don’t actually know because I don’t follow the sport though)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’m not saying that you couldn’t conceive of a whole new system that was equitable for everyone, do a complete tear-down, but since the contracts are already there, it would basically take a third party to go in and just dictate the terms, which seems unlikely. So whatever is the right solution, I don’t see how it’s possible to change. If baseball starts really hurting, they might invite Congress in to help.
joshQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
I’ve read them and they’re all based on the draft starting at the time the sport decline, but that doesn’t mean it was responsible. Canadians were added to the draft at the same time and there are many more Canadians in MLB now than before. There are twice as many people in MLB (in 2011) from PR than there are from Oregon and they’re the same size.
This is like those arguing that there should be more blacks in MLB because there used to be more. The current percentage is far more representative of the US population now than before. it regressed to what we see today and will likely increase over the coming years. It’s the same thing we’ve seen in Puerto Rico.
mb21Quote Reply
Also, the best American players never make themselves available for the MLS draft…because they are already getting paid as members of an overseas club’s academy. The only notable exception is Landon Donovan.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
In 2010 the US was 4th in the number of MLB players per 1000 people. Curacao was at the top followed by the DR and Puerto Rico.
mb21Quote Reply
Trey Lang
http://www.gatewaycc.edu/connect/athletics/baseball/b/news/archive/2012/02/13/gecko-pitcher-recognized-as-top-prospect.aspx
http://www.perfectgame.org/Articles/View.aspx?article=6736
dylanjQuote Reply
Just to make another point, interest in baseball in the US has declined since the beginning of the MLB Draft. Does anyone really think the draft is the cause?
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I blame Hulu. And zombies.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Would you ask Tom Petty that question?
MuckerQuote Reply
I honestly don’t know whether the draft is good or bad. I would say International Free Agents aren’t comparable, because of the levels of competition. I can’t see why the Yankees wouldn’t have signed Strasburg, Harper, Starling, and whoever has been #1 in the last few years, but I can see why they’d pass on Cespedes, one of the top Cuban free agents in the last few years. I’m not diametrically opposed to fewer baseball teams. Did anyone ever even want a Marlins team? They seem to have been undersupported from Day 1, and winning the WS didn’t even help.
joshQuote Reply
I think it’s safe to say that the cubs are targeting pitchers.
Also, the sole purpose of the draft is to keep costs down. Competitive balance is just an excuse easily accepted by the fans.
GWQuote Reply
GW wrote:
Agreed. It serves two purposes: the owners spend less on amateur talent and the veterans who agreed to the crap get more money because cost of amateur talent is down. Win-win-lose.
mb21Quote Reply
Bruno http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/051712aab.html
dylanjQuote Reply
wow, almora was scouted by john koronka
GWQuote Reply
Random link of the day:
http://hoss1k884.drewbenn.com/cgi-bin/hoss1k884.cgi
Rice CubeQuote Reply
http://ht.ly/bnHDR
so i was right about Appel
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
“Your team moves around the bases while you’re moving around the bases with the manager’s wife in the clubhouse. You’ve scored, and so has your team.”
(dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Some damn funny lines in that game…I won 11-0 and struck out 17! Only killed 1 guy.
“The batsman hits the ball as hard as he can. If he hadn’t gotten syphilis from his wife, who of course got it from you, he might have been able to hit it out of the infield. Instead, you get an easy out.”
(dying laughing)
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
Appel doesn’t get to demand a price anymore. Who cares what he wants? That’s the whole point of the new CBA. It’s no longer up to the player to decide how much he wants. The team has all the leverage. If it’s true that Houston wanted him they messed up by not drafting him. They could have had him for slot.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mikeakaleroy:
I just won and got this:
“You won! You must have a little of Old Hoss in you. Actually it’s quite likely that one, if not both, of your parents are among the many bastards he’s spread across this country.”
(dying laughing) x 2 or 288
Rice CubeQuote Reply
only if Boras wasn’t trying to fight it by demanding more which has been talked about. my point is if thats the case Boras failed big time.
dylanjQuote Reply
I really hope that story about Appel is true because it’s an example of 3 idiots trying to do business with one another (Boras, Appel, Astros)
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
What’s he going to fight though? The system in place IS a hard slotting system without it being called that. Teams have ALL the leverage now. I don’t see Appel having any other alternative than to sign for what the Astros would have offered. I don’t see him having any other option than taking what the Pirates offer. Unless he wants to turn down several million and go back to college he has none. Scott Boras is too smart to be this dumb, but I hope it’s true.
mb21Quote Reply
http://www.islandpacket.com/2012/06/05/2091318/uscbs-heesch-among-naia-all-american.html
Heesch
dylanjQuote Reply
@ mb21:
What was Strasburg going to do if the Nationals didn’t agree to his insane demands? I don’t see how the situation has changed that much. The team can go overslot and take the punishments. If the Astros weren’t in the running for a top 5 draft pick next season, they might have gone for it.
joshQuote Reply
Appel ain’t Strasburg though.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
I’m just saying Strasburg would have to be able to say he’s going to walk away and do X for him to have any leverage in that situation. The new situation is definitely biased against the draftee, but in terms of being able to walk away, it’s the same as it was last year. The Astros obviously didn’t want to risk that occurrence and waste their first round pick. Whatever X was two years ago (work out? independent league? College? I honestly have no idea) that still exists.
joshQuote Reply
There will be players eventually a team will go overslot for. Boras probably figured he’d test the waters right off the bat and see what teams are willing to do. Yeah, it may have cost this kid a couple million, but Boras has it to burn. I would guess that’s not how he spun the situation to Appel, though.
joshQuote Reply
BerseliusQuote Reply
Boras also represents Almora, apparently
BerseliusQuote Reply
Castro is in the lineup today
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
I think some of the later round picks are underslottable (is that a word?) so they can funnel a bit more money to Almora. Obviously it’s a negotiation ploy.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ josh:
What’s changed is that there is a significant penalty for going over slot. The only argument teams had for not doing so prior to this year was that they didn’t want to spend the money. Now they can’t. Not even Strasburg is worth losing a 1st round pick. Neither is Harper. I don’t think we’ll see a team give up their 1st round pick and I’d be surprised if we see teams go over by 5% very often.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Partly that, but also he’s not signed yet so his focus has to be on what he knows he’s going to be doing, which is college. When a contract gets signed that will change. He has little incentive to go to Miami, wait 3 years to be drafted. Actually, he has none. Even if he was offered $2 million it’s to his benefit to take it rather than waiting 3 years to re-enter the draft.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
That’s what I figure. Slot 6 is at $3.2MM or something and the first slot is at $7MM or so, so he’d probably make up the difference just by throwing the money in the bank and letting it sit and collect interest, plus the fear of injury killing his career is gone because he’s basically set for life. I think the Cubs can squeeze a few extra dollars his way but I don’t see why he wouldn’t sign.
Is he really represented by Boras? If so, he’s got to have seen what happened to Appel and even Carlos Pena and he can tell Boras to just take the money.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
BTW: 9th round, Chadd Krist, catcher from Cal.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
New post
http://obstructedview.net/previews/series-preview-chicago-cubs-18-36-at-milwaukee-general-hospital-24-30.html
BerseliusQuote Reply
If you guys want to watch the Venus transit and don’t have the proper eyewear or if it’s cloudy where you live you can watch stuff online here:
http://www.nasa.gov/ntv
(I’m working on a book in my “spare time” with the tall guy in the shirt and tie on the right.)
shawndgoldmanQuote Reply