If you stop to think about it, this end to Carlos Zambrano’s career with the Cubs was about as appropriate an end as one could possibly have dreamt up. And let’s not pretend there is a scenario on God’s green earth that involves Carlos Zambrano throwing another pitch for the Cubs ever again.
For those who are just catching up because they managed to turn off the ass-kicking at the hands of the Braves, Carlos Zambrano gave up five homeruns in his outing tonight, tying a team record and joining only Ismael Valdez and Steve Stone as Cubs pitchers who have accomplished the feat since 1955 (I don’t know why that arbitrary endpoint was chosen by Stats, Inc., but it was). So that’s pretty bad. Historically bad, as it turns out (which still seems like that list should include Frank Castillo or Don Wengert or Ruben Quevedo or someone).
After the fifth homerun, Zambrano got a visit from Mark Riggins and they talked about Atlanta traffic patterns or whatever it is that Mark Riggins talks about when he goes out there to visit his pitchers. Riggins then left and Zambrano proceeded to throw at Chipper Jones and get ejected.
Apparently, Zambrano then went into the locker room, cleaned out his locker, and left the clubhouse, reportedly telling those there at the time that he was retiring. So he basically pulled a Sammy Sosa, except with a bit more flair.
It’s like Christmas has come early for Sullivan, Gordo, Kaplan, and Rosenbloom.
The bitch about the way this has all played out is that Zambrano has pretty much lost anyone who previously defended him. This act was pretty indefensible. Believe me, I sympathize with Carlos, but I can’t back him on this move. This was a total dick move on his part.
It became pretty clear that he was hoping for a trade when he let it be known that he would agree to a trade if the Cubs could find a taker. He wasn’t doing that out of the goodness of his heart to help the Cubs move forward. He was doing it because he was done with being a Cub. He wanted out and they couldn’t find anyone to take him.
So he was playing out the string for a manager he probably doesn’t like all that much and probably respects even less. He was playing with teammates that have not had his back for quite some time now (not that I completely blame them). He is, pretty undeniably, a loon. So after having an embarassing night pitching for a team that he doesn’t care about any longer and that no longer cares for him, he snapped and walked out. The best thing that can be said about it is that he seemingly snapped and walked out in a calm and quiet manner. So, I get the frustration and the feeling that he is pretty much alone out there as all this happens, but you simply don’t walk out on your teammates. Unless you are Ryne Sandberg.
No matter what happens now, Zambrano almost has to be done as a Cub. If he sticks to his guns and actually retires, the Cubs might actually use some of the money they save over the next couple of years to throw him a bitchin’ going away party. But I somehow doubt that will happen.
Z is guaranteed whatever is left of his $18+ million for this year, the $19 million for next year, and then there is an option involved for 2013. That is a lot of damn money, and even if Zambrano wants to tell the Ricketts to take their money and shove it up their ass to go with the silver spoon, he has an agent that will talk him out of it, and a players’ union that might have something to say about him walking away from that much guaranteed cash. So I don’t think this retirement thing is going to stick.
Likewise, I don’t think the Cubs can go through the whole Zambrano-apologizes-and-gets-therapy-and-serves-a-suspension-and-then-returns-to-the-rotation thing again. Zambrano’s talent simply doesn’t demand that they put up with this shit from him on a recurring basis.
This little act left Quade rocking back and forth like a mental patient himself:
What else is left except to release him?
The only question is whether the Cubs can negotiate some sort of severance that gives Zambrano a good chunk of his money to just be free and clear of the Cubs, but saves the Cubs the full amount that they owe him.
So that’s about it. We had a lot of fun while it lasted, Z. I hope you’re wearing flame-retardant underwear because the torches are out and the media will be waving them in your direction pretty soon if they haven’t already beat this post. This time I can’t say you don’t deserve it, but I just wish you could have held it together for a bit longer. Maybe that just isn’t possible for you.
So long, you crazy bastard.
Comments
Technical difficulties with the video corrected
Aisle424Quote Reply
The video again, for anyone interested:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17943115
Z seemed calm. So I’m postulating that at some point, someone in the tunnel to the clubhouse told him something and he subsequently went into “fuck you guys, I’m going home” mode.
The ejection video, not Quade in his imaginary rocking chair.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
(dying laughing), you summed this up 500x better than I did. Great work Tim. I agree 1000%
BerseliusQuote Reply
The rocking by Quade was a bit disturbing. I’m sure it was sub-conscious but he looks a bit insane.
JManQuote Reply
I don’t believe the Cubs will cut him and eat all that dough, they wouldn’t do it with Bradley for less money. Hendry will have to find someone to deal him to if he wants him gone. He shouldn’t have left early but had he not supposedly said, “I’m retiring,” it wouldn’t be as big of a deal.
melissaQuote Reply
Our banner has never seemed more appropriate than today.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Maybe this increases the chances that Cashner stays a starter (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
Unfortunately this team is going to be a lot more boring if he truly retired. But Ramirez has to be pissed because now the media can soley focus on him instead of getting a break every 4-5 days.
JManQuote Reply
I said it in the last thread: the new narrative will be for the Cubs to cut bait with Rodrigo and Adolfo
BerseliusQuote Reply
I’m sorry, but the “24 guys who are fighting their ass off for him” line is 100% false. Zambrano threw at Chipper Jones, but it’s not like it was a kill shot. It was less threatening than the obvious mistake pitch that hit Uggla’s ass. The Braves dugout cleared. The Cubs didn’t move. They fought their asses off for Zambrano like Gandhi fought his ass off for the beef industry.
And then there’s the “What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room unless you leave the locker room early in which case we’ll immediately tell the world everything.” I honestly don’t give two pellets of guinea pig poop that Zambrano walked out early. I never will. But when has it ever been justified for anyone, especially a manager, to stage a tell-all interview about what happened in the clubhouse immediately after the game? How is that not 100 times worse than what Zambrano did? I don’t get it. I really don’t.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I said it in the last thread: the new narrative will be for the Cubs to cut bait with Rodrigo and Adolfo[/quote]
Yep, sweep out all the lazy latins at once. Peenya gets to stay because he’s a good clubhouse guy.
melissaQuote Reply
What if it was stoat poop, AC?
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]What if it was stoat poop, AC?[/quote]No way. Stoat poop is at a premium. I don’t give the faint, nutty aroma of Stoat flatulence that Zambrano left early. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
I’m with AC on this one. Quade looked like a crazed lunatic as well. He’s super pissed Z has no respect for him, ain’t got shit to do with the 24 other guys.
melissaQuote Reply
What’s the Sandberg incident you’re referring to? Great post.
kevin orieQuote Reply
[quote name=kevin orie]What’s the Sandberg incident you’re referring to? Great post.[/quote]
When he quit on the team in the middle of 1994 and then was welcomed back in 1996 like nothing ever happened.
Aisle424Quote Reply
In the meantime, we had to put up with Rey Sanchez as the starting second baseman. Sigh…
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m with AC on this one. Quade looked like a crazed lunatic as well. He’s super pissed Z has no respect for him, ain’t got shit to do with the 24 other guys.[/quote]It should be noted, I’m pretty obtuse about the unwritten rules of baseball. And after the fourth Atlanta homerun I was in the car, otherwise I would have tweeted something to the effect of “Oh man, we better get the unwritten rule book out. The Cubs and Braves are really gonna need it.” I will never understand why leaving early, especially after being ejected, is such a big deal. I really don’t like the fact that no comment from Zambrano will be directly quoted in the entire reporting of this story. All the opinions being formed right now are based on the Cubs management and Chicago sports media. Not that they aren’t trustworthy or anything, but I’d still rather hear Zambrano’s side before concluding too much.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I’m sorry, but the “24 guys who are fighting their ass off for him” line is 100% false. Zambrano threw at Chipper Jones, but it’s not like it was a kill shot. It was less threatening than the obvious mistake pitch that hit Uggla’s ass. The Braves dugout cleared. The Cubs didn’t move. They fought their asses off for Zambrano like Gandhi fought his ass off for the beef industry.
And then there’s the “What happens in the locker room stays in the locker room unless you leave the locker room early in which case we’ll immediately tell the world everything.” I honestly don’t give two pellets of guinea pig poop that Zambrano walked out early. I never will. But when has it ever been justified for anyone, especially a manager, to stage a tell-all interview about what happened in the clubhouse immediately after the game? How is that not 100 times worse than what Zambrano did? I don’t get it. I really don’t.[/quote]
Yeah, I think Quade is just pissed and the Cubs are, of course, handling this in the most public way possible, but the fact remains that you don’t walk out on your teammates. There are things that come with being a team and that means sticking around to the end of a game you just shit all over as your teammates attempt to clean up after you.
I think you are right that they are as done with Z as he is with them, but that shit was uncalled for on Z’s part. He lost all high ground with this move.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]When he quit on the team in the middle of 1994 and then was welcomed back in 1996 like nothing ever happened.[/quote]
I’d say that it was because Ryno’s not Latino, but that seems kind of racist.
/tongue-in-cheek but not really
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I don’t think Z tried to take any high ground but I’d much rather he left than get in a knock down drag out with Cuey in the clubhouse. I also think that if he felt fed up he was better to leave and go cool off rather than going off the deep end in the post game presser. I think Cubs personnel saying he claimed he’s retiring has blown this shit show way out of proportion.
melissaQuote Reply
I’m betting that Zambrano actually made this statement in a British accent:
“I think I shall retire to the hotel after my nightly constitution.”
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I’m betting that Zambrano actually made this statement in a British accent:
“I think I shall retire to the hotel after my nightly constitution.”[/quote]
And made a Ministry of Silly Walks worthy exit from the room
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I’m betting that Zambrano actually made this statement in a British accent:
“I think I shall retire to the hotel after my purple monkey dishwasher.”[/quote]
.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424].[/quote]
That’s why they Cubs are so mad – that purple monkey dishwasher remark was uncalled for
BerseliusQuote Reply
I wonder how this incident would have played out in the Rays’ organization? They had a superstar (Manny Ramirez) retire abruptly because of a failed drug test, but the team kept everything very close to their chest until all the paperwork had gone through.
Meanwhile, the Cubs organization immediately begins pontificating like madmen in front of the cameras. How is that a 15 year old organization is ~1000x more professional than a 120 year old company?
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
[quote name=BradleyWoodrum]I wonder how this incident would have played out in the Rays’ organization? They had a superstar (Manny Ramirez) retire abruptly because of a failed drug test, but the team kept everything very close to their chest until all the paperwork had gone through.
Meanwhile, the Cubs organization immediately begins pontificating like madmen in front of the cameras. How is that a 15 year old organization is ~1000x more professional than a 120 year old company?[/quote]
The 120-year-old company is run by idiots.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=BradleyWoodrum]I wonder how this incident would have played out in the Rays’ organization? They had a superstar (Manny Ramirez) retire abruptly because of a failed drug test, but the team kept everything very close to their chest until all the paperwork had gone through.
Meanwhile, the Cubs organization immediately begins pontificating like madmen in front of the cameras. How is that a 15 year old organization is ~1000x more professional than a 120 year old company?[/quote]
I’m only going off his national repuation, but I wonder if the Rays have managed to sit on any clubhouse issues with BJ Upton. The Chicago media would love for him to come to town.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=BradleyWoodrum]I wonder how this incident would have played out in the Rays’ organization? They had a superstar (Manny Ramirez) retire abruptly because of a failed drug test, but the team kept everything very close to their chest until all the paperwork had gone through.
Meanwhile, the Cubs organization immediately begins pontificating like madmen in front of the cameras. How is that a 15 year old organization is ~1000x more professional than a 120 year old company?[/quote]
because no one cares? that classy org in boston shit all over manram on his way out of town.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I’m only going off his national repuation, but I wonder if the Rays have managed to sit on any clubhouse issues with BJ Upton. The Chicago media would love for him to come to town.[/quote]From what I have observed as a die hard Rays fan, most of the B.J. Upton “issues” stem from a media narrative constructed on the foundation of a single incident as a young player (not hustling to first).
Any interview you see with the guy makes you realize he’s a very aware, intelligent fellow. I would not be surprised if he’s a perfect citizen, merely labeled “lazy” by reporters who engender a much more accurate representation of that adjective.
That beings said, the whole organization, from Joe Maddon to Stu Sternberg (the owner), works PR. Every org member who steps in front of a camera knows exactly what details get released and doles out only platitudes outside of the script.
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
The Rays have a real manager, can you imagine Maddon rocking back and forth like a crazed loon after the game? Not so much.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]because no one cares? that classy org in boston shit all over manram on his way out of town.[/quote]Boston is the Empire. They are seriously scary. They hired investigators to follow Carl Crawford around to make sure he was a reliable, upstanding citizen.
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
I guess I look at it like this: when the Cubs made it obvious as players that they’d never even attempt to act like they’d defend Zambrano, this after Riggins went out to do something other than get him the hell out of the game, wasn’t the “you’re not a part of this team” message already delivered to Zambrano? When the team had shown a complete lack of support for him, why is he still obligated to be a team player?
I feel like the Cubs collectively fired Zambrano and are now complaining that he quit. Maybe I’m just reading too much into the aftermath (or lack thereof) of the pitch at Chipper.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=BradleyWoodrum]Boston is the Empire. They are seriously scary. They hired investigators to follow Carl Crawford around to make sure he was a reliable, upstanding citizen.[/quote]
too bad they didn’t send anyone to interview berselius.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]too bad they didn’t send anyone to interview berselius.[/quote]
(dying laughing) they could give me a job while they were at it
BerseliusQuote Reply
I don’t think Zambrano had any legitimate complaint about being left in the game too long. Part of his job as a starter is to go deep into a game and save the relievers. He knows this. He only threw 77 pitches and was in the fifth inning, and there were pitchers warming up, so it’s not as if he was bound to stay in very long anyway. I also don’t buy that he felt weren’t supporting him. I think he just had a terrible game, and felt frustrated.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I guess I look at it like this: when the Cubs made it obvious as players that they’d never even attempt to act like they’d defend Zambrano, this after Riggins went out to do something other than get him the hell out of the game, wasn’t the “you’re not a part of this team” message already delivered to Zambrano? When the team had shown a complete lack of support for him, why is he still obligated to be a team player?
I feel like the Cubs collectively fired Zambrano and are now complaining that he quit. Maybe I’m just reading too much into the aftermath (or lack thereof) of the pitch at Chipper.[/quote]I’m sorry, but these players get paid as individuals. I feel like the “Zambrano quitting on the team” and “the team quitting on Zambrano” narratives are a bit disconnected from reality. Each person out there is in business for themselves — especially on a 70-win team.
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I don’t think Zambrano had any legitimate complaint about being left in the game too long. Part of his job as a starter is to go deep into a game and save the relievers. He knows this. He only threw 77 pitches and was in the fifth inning, and there were pitchers warming up, so it’s not as if he was bound to stay in very long anyway. I also don’t buy that he felt weren’t supporting him. I think he just had a terrible game, and felt frustrated.[/quote]
I think that’s what Riggins told him. It was pretty clear that he was left in to eat some innings and save the pen.
BerseliusQuote Reply
On a happier note: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2011_08_12_chnmlb_atlmlb_1&mode=video
4 home runs for Castro already this month. I hope this isn’t like the month Theriot had in May 2009 when he flashed power for a month and then never did it again.
ACTQuote Reply
The wife’s take on Z quitting, with a little help from a movie:
Rice CubeQuote Reply
If that’s true, ACT, it’s even more perplexing that a single Cub would give a shit. If he was angry only at himself, why would his reaction that he’s done with baseball be taken personally by anyone? Why would it matter that he left early? There’s no reason to act all defensive against someone who has personally retreated?
Zambrano’s beefs against his team are more substantial than any claims against him in this instance. Other than the “obviously this is outrageous” claims, I see no reason why his conduct is even remotely insulting.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Z’s agent is going to get him on the phone, but I think that what pretty much happened was that Riggins told him they were leaving him in to not burn the pen, Z gave up another HR or two, and just said “fuck it, I don’t need this shit”. He can take his ball and go home to his millions that he’s earned already. IIRC he’s said on several occasions that he might retire after this contract was up
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=BradleyWoodrum]I’m sorry, but these players get paid as individuals. I feel like the “Zambrano quitting on the team” and “the team quitting on Zambrano” narratives are a bit disconnected from reality. Each person out there is in business for themselves — especially on a 70-win team.[/quote]Sorry, but . .. bullshit. (dying laughing) That narrative of him quitting on the team (and the team not quitting on him) was told straight from the team spokesman. Each person out there in business for themselves contradicts everything you’ll ever hear any baseball player or manager say about what transpires on the field and in the clubhouse. In their personal decisions about where they’ll play or what kind of contracts they’ll sign, yeah, in it for themselves. But when they’re acting as a team, they very much buy into the “one for all and all for one” mentality. I just don’t see how leaving the clubhouse after an ejection, with or without his gear, constitutes betrayal.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]Each person out there in business for themselves contradicts everything you’ll ever hear any baseball player or manager say about what transpires on the field and in the clubhouse.[/quote]Yeah, because what sane person would really say: “I don’t care about being a good clubhouse guy,” or “I’m just doing my best; I don’t care what anyone else does”?
I think there’s a lot of lip service paid to team mentalities in the big leagues, but in general, the togetherness of the team only effects how comfortable the plane rides are.
Teams are more inclined to use the one-for-all mentality as a weapon against players who lose favor in the organization rather than a means of day-to-day operation.
I don’t know, though. This whole matter has gotten thoroughly philosophical and I’m very tired. 🙁
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
Somewhat interestingly, the Brewers have the fifth-best record in the majors.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Somewhat soul crushingly, the Brewers have the fifth-best record in the majors.[/quote]Fixed.
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
”I’ve seen more crazy shit since I’ve been here than I’ve seen anywhere else in my career,” said one veteran Cubs player after 6/26/2010 Cubs-Sox Game
——————————————————
maybe this organization is a success since they are massively succeeding in entertainment value by involving some of the most soap opera-ish and crazy side stories in baseball the last 6-7 years.
ABQuote Reply
I really don’t think it’s lip service, though. I don’t think they’d take bullets for each other, either. I get what you’re saying. But there’s still a basic loyalty that goes with being on a team, even if it comes absent of genuine affection or respect. I don’t think it’s important to the outcomes of games. I just think it’s important to the players as people.
So, yeah, Z leaving early probably isn’t a big deal any more than the lack of feigned macho support is. But to those involved, it’s a big deal. And perception is 9/10 of the law.
Yes. I definitely agree on the tiredness. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
CSN’s Patrick Mooney said that players just kind of rolled their eyes when reporters said Z said he was retiring. He also mentioned that several players told reporters that they probably loved this happening so they’d have something to talk about. Seemed like most of the 24 deserted teammates were non-chalant about the whole thing. They weren’t supplying much grist for the mill according to him.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Somewhat interestingly, the Brewers have the fifth-best record in the majors.[/quote]I’m happy for the Brewers, personally. They have a small budget, and they knew they had to compete this year before fielder became a free agent, so they sold out their farm system to give their team the boost they needed. It was a smart gamble, and I’m glad it’s paying off. Also, the fact that they’re winning means the Cardinals are not going to the playoffs.
ACTQuote Reply
Sigh…
Now I will have to stay away from anything related to sports for the next week so I can avoid the torrential shitstorm of self-righteous anger, out of context quotations, and misplaced vitriol.
ZappBranniganQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
I don’t blame Z for doing what he did. This franchise is a joke right now. We have a manager in over his head, a general manager who is a buffoon. We are AWFUL. Who cares if Quade is pissed that Z doesn’t show him respect. Why should he? Quade is a joke. I applaud Z. And I tell you what, if Quade and Hendry are back next year, we are truly fucked next season
jasoncarlson2Quote Reply
(dying laughing) @ the scrolling twitter feed on BCB which is full of some commenter shitting all over Al and various posters.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
The fuckin Cubs and their drama. I agree with Tim. I also don’t buy the whole embarrassed thing. Zambrano is a big league pitcher and he knows at times he’s going to be asked to stay in games he sucks. Part of the job. As ACT said, he’d only thrown 77 pitches.
Zambrano gave up the home runs. 5 of them, which is something I’ve never seen (still haven’t). The game was over, thanks to Zambrano, and the Cubs wanted him to stay in there and save the bullpen. Instead, he threw at Chipper Jones, walked off the field, cleaned out his lock and told someone he’s retiring.
Quade looked a little crazy in the interview, but some player they pay $18 million just walked out. He literally quit. Go into work on Monday, walk out of your job and let me know if your boss isn’t pissed.
I wonder if there’s a way the Cubs could successfully void his contract. They’ve went out of their way to be hospitable to Zambrano. The players don’t like him. They haven’t for a long time now. They’ve sent him to anger management and certainly, behaving like an adult is part of Zambrano’s contact and time after time he fails to do so. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cubs could successfully void the contract at this point.
mb22Quote Reply
HOLY SHIT!
I missed a lot when I gave up on the game. I left right after he got ejected.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=JMan]The rocking by Quade was a bit disturbing. I’m sure it was sub-conscious but he looks a bit insane.[/quote]He looks like he wants to scream really, REALLY hard.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=BradleyWoodrum]Boston is the Empire. They are seriously scary. They hired investigators to follow Carl Crawford around to make sure he was a reliable, upstanding citizen.[/quote]Probably because he’s black.
binkyQuote Reply
Every contract is different, but here’s an example:
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]HOLY SHIT!
I missed a lot when I gave up on the game. I left right after he got ejected.[/quote]
So did he.
Aisle424Quote Reply
My biggest beef with this story is that we are hearing about it at all. Quade should STFU and take his meds.
I’m also a bit conflicted. I mean, Zambrano is a bit of an emotional guy. He gave up 5 homeruns and took his frustration out on a totally innocent batter. What a dick. On the other hand, I’d probably be irritated to and it’s not like he threw at his head. (dying laughing)
As a comparison, CC Sabathia gave up 5 homeruns last night too and I think more would say he is a slightly better pitcher than Z. Shit happens. But how did Sabathia and the Yankees handle it? Look, I hate the Yankees with a passion, but there is a difference between a winning organization with a winners mindset and a losing organization with a losers mindset. Guess which is which.
jherkyQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=jherky]My biggest beef with this story is that we are hearing about it at all. Quade should STFU and take his meds.
I’m also a bit conflicted. I mean, Zambrano is a bit of an emotional guy. He gave up 5 homeruns and took his frustration out on a totally innocent batter. What a dick. On the other hand, I’d probably be irritated to and it’s not like he threw at his head. (dying laughing)
As a comparison, CC Sabathia gave up 5 homeruns last night too and I think more would say he is a slightly better pitcher than Z. Shit happens. But how did Sabathia and the Yankees handle it? Look, I hate the Yankees with a passion, but there is a difference between a winning organization with a winners mindset and a losing organization with a losers mindset. Guess which is which.[/quote]Maybe that’s just it, though. Maybe Z is tired of working for the loser and now realizes no one else wants him. I’m sure there’s going to be more developments on the story, like you said. Q actually did Z a favor by shooting his mouth. Z can now deny the story and say Q is just incompetent. Or Z can own it and say he’s done. Either way, Z gets to control it now, which is why they usually don’t want you to say anything to the media that is that loaded.
binkyQuote Reply
I’m guessing they can’t prove breach of contract unless he doesn’t show up and refuses to pitch for several days running.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=jherky]My biggest beef with this story is that we are hearing about it at all. Quade should STFU and take his meds.
I’m also a bit conflicted. I mean, Zambrano is a bit of an emotional guy. He gave up 5 homeruns and took his frustration out on a totally innocent batter. What a dick. On the other hand, I’d probably be irritated to and it’s not like he threw at his head. (dying laughing)
As a comparison, CC Sabathia gave up 5 homeruns last night too and I think more would say he is a slightly better pitcher than Z. Shit happens. But how did Sabathia and the Yankees handle it? Look, I hate the Yankees with a passion, but there is a difference between a winning organization with a winners mindset and a losing organization with a losers mindset. Guess which is which.[/quote]The difference between these two situations is that Zambrano made it a story. If he had just gotten ejected it would have been written as a bad day, but Zambrano left. CC did not. I’m also guessing that CC took questions from the media, but I haven’t read about the Yankees yet today. I usually do that after I get caught up on some other important stuff (I like the Yankees).
If you walk out of your job, your boss is going to be pissed. I was actually impressed with how Hendry handled it. He wasn’t directly involved like Quade was.
It’s just a strange situation and it was one created by Carlos Zambrano and then made worse by Carlos Zambrano.
Brad mentioned Manny Ramirez earlier, but I see little connection between these two incidents. Rather than take a 50-game suspension or 100-game suspension Manny retired. He’s old and doesn’t want to fuck around with that. It’s understandable. He wasn’t going to play. He didn’t quit in the way Zambrano did.
As Tim said in the article, Zambrano isn’t so good anymore that you put up with his shit. It’s OK if he’s a 5 WAR pitcher or in his prime, but he’s not. He’s league average at best.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]I’m guessing they can’t prove breach of contract unless he doesn’t show up and refuses to pitch for several days running.[/quote]I don’t know what would qualify as breach of contract for a professional athlete, but I also doubt they could prove that. On the other hand, there’s more than enough evidence to prove this:
Not only has he failed, refused or neglected to conform his personal conduct, he’s also not kept himself in first-class physical condition.
I think the Cubs should try.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=mb22]Not only has he failed, refused or neglected to conform his personal conduct, he’s also not kept himself in first-class physical condition.
I think the Cubs should try.[/quote]I agree, I think that’s what they’ll go for, too.
binkyQuote Reply
On the other hand, K-Rod punched his father in law and they weren’t able to prove “conduct unbecoming,” so apparently the player’s union has really good lawyers. It’ll be a battle, and Z may very well fight hard, taking a “fuck them” attitude toward a team, if he feels they are out to get him.
binkyQuote Reply
Hendry may be more willing to cave to any union pressure, just to get Z out of his life.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=jherky]My biggest beef with this story is that we are hearing about it at all. Quade should STFU and take his meds.
I’m also a bit conflicted. I mean, Zambrano is a bit of an emotional guy. He gave up 5 homeruns and took his frustration out on a totally innocent batter. What a dick. On the other hand, I’d probably be irritated to and it’s not like he threw at his head. (dying laughing)
As a comparison, CC Sabathia gave up 5 homeruns last night too and I think more would say he is a slightly better pitcher than Z. Shit happens. But how did Sabathia and the Yankees handle it? Look, I hate the Yankees with a passion, but there is a difference between a winning organization with a winners mindset and a losing organization with a losers mindset. Guess which is which.[/quote]This.
Of course, I think it’s important to make the distinction that Sabathia missed his spots only 5 times last night and each miss went for a homer — other than that, he was his typical K-machine. Zambrano was all over the place.
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
MLBTR seems to think that if Z retired, he’d forfeit the rest of his contract. So I don’t see his agent letting him do that.
If true, it makes Hendry’s comment seem even more like calling the bluff.
binkyQuote Reply
I don’t see any comparison to Sabbathia and the Yankees. Sabbathia pitched 8 innings, didn’t get ejected, and didn’t leave the park early. How does this tell us anything about the difference between the Yankees and the Cubs?
ACTQuote Reply
* Sabathia should have one b.
ACTQuote Reply
If Z shows up at the park today there isn’t a snowball’s chance inn Hell the Cubs have any grounds to void his contract. Sorry, but telling the equipment manager “I’m retiring,” doesn’t make it official. It’s also laughable to suggest it could be voided because of his physical condition. Have you seen CC, Fielder or how fat Josh Beckett has gotten? Z is in better shape now than he was for many years. If you see him in person he doesn’t even look that big. Regardless of your opinion he’s not physically unable to do his job because he’s out of shape and it’s just silly to suggest otherwise. The Cubs and many fans would love to be out from under Z’s deal but unless he retires, not likely, it’s just wishful dreaming. I guess wishful dreaming is the staple of being a Cubs fan though so carry on. (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
You seem to be focusing on the physical aspect of that clause, where I guess I was more focusing on “fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship.”
The Cubs could argue he was intentionally trying to get ejected. I’m not saying they’ll succeed, but I would think they would at least make a case. Honestly, I bet the FO would eat his contract if that’s the option, but if they’d be stupid not to try to save themselves some money they could use for FA purchases and trades in the offseason.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I don’t see any comparison to Sabbathia and the Yankees. Sabathia pitched 8 innings, didn’t get ejected, and didn’t leave the park early. How does this tell us anything about the difference between the Yankees and the Cubs?[/quote]
The difference is that Z threw at a batter because he was angry and then walked out. CC Sabathia did his job and chalked it up to a bad day. That IS the difference between the Cubs and the Yankees.
jherkyQuote Reply
I hope his ego forces him into retirement and voids the contract. With that money freed up, the Cubs could actually have a chance at having an interesting off-season. That’s wishful thinking, yes, but so be it.
binkyQuote Reply
I just found about this shit. Holy cow.
I didn’t see the highlights, game, or the pitch to Chipper.
Z has bigger problems than I thought.
Ryne Sandberg retired during the 1994 season, leaving a lot of cash on the table after losing the ability & desire to play the game. that’s what happens when you are on a shitty Cubs team who, ya know, wants to win really bad. Sound familiar, Big Z? Ryno didn’t return until 1996. Will Z ever come back? be welcomed back?
this is fucking shitty. one of my favorite Cubs of all time. I’m going to buy a #38 shirt on ebay right now. ha!
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I just found about this shit. Holy cow.
I didn’t see the highlights, game, or the pitch to Chipper.
Z has bigger problems than I thought.
Ryne Sandberg retired during the 1994 season, leaving a lot of cash on the table after losing the ability & desire to play the game. that’s what happens when you are on a shitty Cubs team who, ya know, wants to win really bad. Sound familiar, Big Z? Ryno didn’t return until 1996. Will Z ever come back? be welcomed back?
this is fucking shitty. one of my favorite Cubs of all time. I’m going to buy a #38 shirt on ebay right now. ha![/quote]Kind of like what happened with Barry Sanders, except that, you know, Barry still had a lot of good years left in him.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Kind of like what happened with Barry Sanders, except that, you know, Barry still had a lot of good years left in him.[/quote]
I’m not sure what happened with Sanders. I don’t think he cleaned out his locker during a game, though.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=jherky]The difference is that Z threw at a batter because he was angry and then walked out. CC Sabathia did his job and chalked it up to a bad day. That IS the difference between the Cubs and the Yankees.[/quote]That’s the difference between Z and CC (how many other Cubs pitchers would react this way?) Also, even though both pitchers allowed 5 home runs, their starts were not at all similar; CC’s start was 5 solo homers (and no other runs) over 8 innings. Not a good start, but not a huge meltdown like Z’s.
ACTQuote Reply
Bruce Miles ———> also thinks that Z and the Cubs are donezo
BerseliusQuote Reply
Buried in yetserday’s Z news
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/7036403-573/angry-aramis-ramirez-fires-back-at-todd-hollandsworth.html
Well done
BerseliusQuote Reply
Maybe if he went to Chipper Jones’ home at 3 A.M. and threw something at him, but there’s no chance in hell a contract gets voided for a pitcher throwing at a batter.
GBTSQuote Reply
GBTSQuote Reply
Hollandsworth (dying laughing)
Aramis is another Cub great from the past decade. fuck those hacks.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]
[/quote]
that pic might end up on the cover of Newsweek.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6858432
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
I for one was wondering what a failed coach from another sport thought. Thanks, ESPN.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]that pic might end up in this year’s photoshop contest.[/quote]
.
BerseliusQuote Reply
I saw that too, GBTS.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
as long as I’m not on there, berselius (dying laughing)
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]
[/quote]
It’s like he’s trying really hard to see what’s in the MagicEye picture…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I’m not sure what happened with Sanders. I don’t think he cleaned out his locker during a game, though.[/quote]He quit abruptly in year 2 of like a 6 year contract. He later admitted that it was the culture of losing in Detroit that sapped his will to play.
as far voiding the contract, I don’t think trying to hit Chipper is grounds for voiding (who hasn’t wanted to hit that mug bastard once in their lives), but if Z fails to show up for a few days (as I stated), then they could build a narrative that he intentionally tried to get thrown out of the game and then demonstrated further that he didn’t want to uphold his contract by not appearing and skipping a start or something. I don’t think they can at this point, but I think the can start building a case depending on what happens in the next few days, yes.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]He quit abruptly in year 2 of like a 6 year contract. He later admitted that it was the culture of losing in Detroit that sapped his will to play.
as far voiding the contract, I don’t think trying to hit Chipper is grounds for voiding (who hasn’t wanted to hit that mug bastard once in their lives), but if Z fails to show up for a few days (as I stated), then they could build a narrative that he intentionally tried to get thrown out of the game and then demonstrated further that he didn’t want to uphold his contract by not appearing and skipping a start or something. I don’t think they can at this point, but I think the can start building a case depending on what happens in the next few days, yes.[/quote]
Agreed. What’s happened so far is definitely grounds for a not-short suspension, but a lot more has to happen for them to void the contract.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Hendry is excited because all the money they would have had to spend on Zambrano will now go to his Donut and Jack Daniels fund
jason88Quote Reply
GBTSQuote Reply
Does this mean the Cubs are out of playoff contention?
NittanyCubQuote Reply
[quote name=NittanyCub]Does this mean the Cubs are out of playoff contention?[/quote]
It’s Gonna Happen, nc
BerseliusQuote Reply
A lot of people wanted the Cubs to find ways to void Spri’s contract in 09 and 10. Lots of talk about that on ACB and of course there was the hope Kosuke would return to Japan to save face. Now fingers are crossed that Z will retire.
melissaQuote Reply
If it’s going to be this kind of party, I might as well stick my dick in the mashed potatoes.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Didn’t the clubhouse managers hear properly? Zambrano said “to my hotel room for the evening, fine gentlemen.” at the end of his quoted statement.
Not really, but that would be hilarious.
Is it too much to hope the Cubs just freed up lots of payroll?
shawndgoldmanQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]If it’s going to be this kind of party, I might as well stick my dick in the mashed potatoes.[/quote]
Just stay away from the cole slaw.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Anyone who thinks the Yankees are some class org is forgetting that their own GM basically said he didn’t want to sign a particular player over the off-season only to have his bosses go over his head. Their potential HOF catcher went nuts and fired off the media because he got benched despite sucking. Oh and the Steinbrenners own that team and don’t exactly stay out of the media’s way.
The Rays might be a class org but they don’t exactly have some rabid fan base and large contingent of media following them around.
JManQuote Reply
Lesbian Hobbit reports thar Hendry and Z’s agent are in talks. If nothing is resolved by this afternoon Z will likely be put on the restricted list.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Lesbian Hobbit reports thar Hendry and Z’s agent are in talks. If nothing is resolved by this afternoon Z will likely be put on the restricted list.[/quote]
Crap…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Fuck the hobbit. I’d love to see Z punch that guy before he leaves. He can afford it (dying laughing)
I hope Boston picks him up, to be honest. Bill James will take him. Seriously. He told Kaplan if the Cubs didn’t want him, the Red Sox would gladly take him. Kaplan just said “very interesting”
of course that was a year or two ago. a few things have changed since then.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
Come on, mb, the Cubs haven’t gone out of their way to be hospitable to anybody. How many years ago was it that they sent him to the bullpen, blew up an argument into some kind of international incident, and then suspended him because he yelled? They deal with Zambrano how they want to deal with him. He’s difficult to deal with, but the Cubs can’t even handle easy.
The really weird thing is that Zambrano had some wicked movement on his pitches last night. His stuff looked fantastic when it wasn’t being crushed into the hot Atlanta night. His control was all over the place, though. Which is exactly why I don’t understand how it’s such an easy and obvious conclusion for everyone that he intentionally threw at Chipper Jones because he wanted to get ejected. I hadn’t realized that warnings had been issued (if they had), and it wasn’t like he threw at his head. But apparently it’s completely out of the realm of possibility that it was just another bad pitch. Whatever.
But at that point, he was ejected. If I had been told that I had to stop doing my job but that I had to remain at my job for the sake of everyone else at my job who had just effectively told me they’d be perfectly fine if they never saw me again, I would probably not sit around and hang out at my job for a few hours. But that’s just me. And Z, I guess. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]Come on, mb, the Cubs haven’t gone out of their way to be hospitable to anybody. How many years ago was it that they sent him to the bullpen, blew up an argument into some kind of international incident, and then suspended him because he yelled? They deal with Zambrano how they want to deal with him. He’s difficult to deal with, but the Cubs can’t even handle easy.
The really weird thing is that Zambrano had some wicked movement on his pitches last night. His stuff looked fantastic when it wasn’t being crushed into the hot Atlanta night. His control was all over the place, though. Which is exactly why I don’t understand how it’s such an easy and obvious conclusion for everyone that he intentionally threw at Chipper Jones because he wanted to get ejected. I hadn’t realized that warnings had been issued (if they had), and it wasn’t like he threw at his head. But apparently it’s completely out of the realm of possibility that it was just another bad pitch. Whatever.
But at that point, he was ejected. If I had been told that I had to stop doing my job but that I had to remain at my job for the sake of everyone else at my job who had just effectively told me they’d be perfectly fine if they never saw me again, I would probably not sit around and hang out at my job for a few hours. But that’s just me. And Z, I guess. (dying laughing)[/quote]I guess it was the fact that the umpire didn’t even hesitate and Z just accepted it and walked off the field. When Colvin was errantly thrown out, he could be clearly seen saying things like “I was talking to myself” and arguing that he hadn’t been in the wrong. Makes you think there was some kind of tension. If warnings hadn’t been issued, then the ump heard something or saw something he didn’t like.
binkyQuote Reply
AC, not sure if you were watching the game or not, but Z buzzed Chipper twice before he was thrown out. It wasn’t just a HBP, he threw one about a foot inside the pitch before, and the pitch he was ejected on was in the exact same spot.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Or the ump just thought it was blatant.
binkyQuote Reply
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/sports/sec-presidents-to-discuss-texas-ams-admission.html?_r=1&ref=sports
nyt suggests this is very seat-of-their-pants from the sec’s perspective
GWQuote Reply
As to him being here and not wanting to be. Then quit. Then tell your GM to let teams know you’d be willing to renegotiate your contract after a trade. Do something to get yourself out of there. Don’t take the money if you won’t do the job. The job is to pitch to your best ability and act like a member of a team, even if you don’t want to. That means doing things to make the team look good and to give back to the community. That’s what all those charity functions and meet and greets are for. It’s PR. Not an easy job, really, and if you can’t or won’t do it, then notify the team that you are voiding the contract and leave.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/sports/sec-presidents-to-discuss-texas-ams-admission.html?_r=1&ref=sports
nyt suggests this is very seat-of-their-pants from the sec’s perspective[/quote]
One or two other things I’ve read suggest that all the smoke is coming from aTm. I still think the SEC would jump and them and figure out the 14th team later
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]One or two other things I’ve read suggest that all the smoke is coming from aTm. I still think the SEC would jump and them and figure out the 14th team later[/quote]
agreed. this is just evidence against an sec master plan (as stuart mandel and others have suggested)
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]AC, not sure if you were watching the game or not, but Z buzzed Chipper twice before he was thrown out. It wasn’t just a HBP, he threw one about a foot inside the pitch before, and the pitch he was ejected on was in the exact same spot.[/quote]I was going between radio and TV at that point, so I didn’t really get the sense that the pitches leading up to the ejection were any big deal. And in the end, I don’t think anyone remotely involved with the Cub organization comes out of this looking the least bit good. I don’t want to try to paint Z as a martyr. I just think reaction to what he did last night was overblown. It’s the way the Cubs organization as a whole conducts itself that blows my mind, because even if Z’s contract goes off the books, the Cubs will still be saddled with a severe case of head-up-their-ass.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I was going between radio and TV at that point, so I didn’t really get the sense that the pitches leading up to the ejection were any big deal. And in the end, I don’t think anyone remotely involved with the Cub organization comes out of this looking the least bit good. I don’t want to try to paint Z as a martyr. I just think reaction to what he did last night was overblown. It’s the way the Cubs organization as a whole conducts itself that blows my mind, because even if Z’s contract goes off the books, the Cubs will still be saddled with a severe case of head-up-their-ass.[/quote]
Agreed, AC.
They need to get Burns’s doctors looking for a cure for seventeen stab wounds in the back to work on a cure for head-up-their-ass while they are at it
BerseliusQuote Reply
The reasons to keep being a fan of this team are evaporating. Good thing for the Cubs I’m a big enough idiot not to figure that out, and I’m not alone. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31296083?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]The reasons to keep being a fan of this team are evaporating. Good thing for the Cubs I’m a big enough idiot not to figure that out, and I’m not alone. (dying laughing)[/quote]I don’t know, this has been pretty exciting.
binkyQuote Reply
Like I said earlier, a couple years ago Z intimated that this contract would be his last, as if he was fed up with all the garbage and wanted to retire, spend time with his family, etc. I thought he would finish out his contract but apparently he snapped sooner than he expected. I believe part of it was being sick of losing, and of his own ability, and neither was going to change anytime soon.
Funny way to go out, though. Has anyone else quit like this, in a rage, being mad as hell and couldn’t take it any more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I was going between radio and TV at that point, so I didn’t really get the sense that the pitches leading up to the ejection were any big deal. And in the end, I don’t think anyone remotely involved with the Cub organization comes out of this looking the least bit good. I don’t want to try to paint Z as a martyr. I just think reaction to what he did last night was overblown. It’s the way the Cubs organization as a whole conducts itself that blows my mind, because even if Z’s contract goes off the books, the Cubs will still be saddled with a severe case of head-up-their-ass.[/quote]Other than Quade going off what exactly did the org do that was so overblown? Quade even going off isn’t that bad considering that I think everyone was completely stunned he completely emptied his locker and left telling some random trainer he was retiring. Are we so used to Cubs’ players acting this that we’re desensitized?
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31296083?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001[/quote]i think we all expected another shoe to drop. Of course certain media will write that it’s about time he did something like this whereas if it had been Reed or Barney they would be hailed as the kind of kings.
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=JMan]i think we all expected another shoe to drop. Of course certain media will write that it’s about time he did something like this whereas if it had been Reed or Barney they would be hailed as the kind of kings.[/quote]
who knows what Soriano said to Z. all speculation at this point.
Except for Sully of course. he’s got a beat on it (dying laughing)
Horny GoatQuote Reply
all i can say is—fuck the chicago cubs. fuck tom ricketts. fuck the fact that blue is my favorite color. i hope the fan attrition just continues and the ricketts have to sell at a loss. i stopped watching a while ago. fuck the lot of them. hopefully sori and rami can end their careers with a team that respects them.
off season prediction—hendry gets poached by another team and then signs albert pujols. the new GM, desperate to fill seats, trades prospects like brett jackson and young players like starlin castro for good but over-hyped players with one or two years left and they fail to live up to expectations.
god, it feels good to be an ex-cub fan. rest in peace ronny. glad you were finally able to escape the disappointment.
cerulean blueQuote Reply
http://newsok.com/ou-sources-say-missouri-departure-would-doom-big-12/article/3594498
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]who knows what Soriano said to Z. all speculation at this point.
Except for Sully of course. he’s gonna beat off on it (dying laughing)[/quote]Thank you, Captain Obvious.
(dying laughing)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
If anyone was in Q’s shoes, they’d be pissed, too. Who cleans out their locker and takes their name tag? What did the team do to let him down and give him cause to behave this way? Should Sori have sat on the fence to give himself a chance to catch those homeruns Z gave up?[quote name=cerulean blue]all i can say is—fuck the chicago cubs. fuck tom ricketts. fuck the fact that blue is my favorite color. i hope the fan attrition just continues and the ricketts have to sell at a loss. i stopped watching a while ago. fuck the lot of them. hopefully sori and rami can end their careers with a team that respects them.
off season prediction—hendry gets poached by another team and then signs albert pujols. the new GM, desperate to fill seats, trades prospects like brett jackson and young players like starlin castro for good but over-hyped players with one or two years left and they fail to live up to expectations.
god, it feels good to be an ex-cub fan. rest in peace ronny. glad you were finally able to escape the disappointment.[/quote]Meh, it’s something to do.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]If Z shows up at the park today there isn’t a snowball’s chance inn Hell the Cubs have any grounds to void his contract. Sorry, but telling the equipment manager “I’m retiring,” doesn’t make it official. It’s also laughable to suggest it could be voided because of his physical condition. Have you seen CC, Fielder or how fat Josh Beckett has gotten? Z is in better shape now than he was for many years. If you see him in person he doesn’t even look that big. Regardless of your opinion he’s not physically unable to do his job because he’s out of shape and it’s just silly to suggest otherwise. The Cubs and many fans would love to be out from under Z’s deal but unless he retires, not likely, it’s just wishful dreaming. I guess wishful dreaming is the staple of being a Cubs fan though so carry on. (dying laughing)[/quote]I’m not saying they’d have success on that basis, but Zambrano himself admitted to not doing all the workouts the team told him to. Regardless of that, Zambrano has not behaved in the manner that MLB contracts demand. I don’t know if that’e enough to void it either, but the Cubs would be stupid as fuck to not try.
mb22Quote Reply
Zambrano ——— Disqualified List
Not getting paid for 30 days, not allowed to have contact with the team, Apparently.
Union ———> appealing
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]Meh, it’s something to do.[/quote]meh, it used to be. now i have neither time nor will. plus football is starting.
cerulean blueQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]Come on, mb, the Cubs haven’t gone out of their way to be hospitable to anybody. How many years ago was it that they sent him to the bullpen, blew up an argument into some kind of international incident, and then suspended him because he yelled? They deal with Zambrano how they want to deal with him. He’s difficult to deal with, but the Cubs can’t even handle easy.
The really weird thing is that Zambrano had some wicked movement on his pitches last night. His stuff looked fantastic when it wasn’t being crushed into the hot Atlanta night. His control was all over the place, though. Which is exactly why I don’t understand how it’s such an easy and obvious conclusion for everyone that he intentionally threw at Chipper Jones because he wanted to get ejected. I hadn’t realized that warnings had been issued (if they had), and it wasn’t like he threw at his head. But apparently it’s completely out of the realm of possibility that it was just another bad pitch. Whatever.
But at that point, he was ejected. If I had been told that I had to stop doing my job but that I had to remain at my job for the sake of everyone else at my job who had just effectively told me they’d be perfectly fine if they never saw me again, I would probably not sit around and hang out at my job for a few hours. But that’s just me. And Z, I guess. (dying laughing)[/quote]Regardless of what the Cubs have done in the past, Zambrano was in the wrong here. He had a horrible start, threw at a batter in frustration, and left.
Let’s also not pretend as if everybody disliking him is not his fault. it is. It’s nobody’s fault other than his that his own teammates despise him. Sosa made the same bed and when he stopped performing like he was being paid, players stopped letting him get away with it. I’m just surprised the players haven’t called him out on this before.
Zambrano called out Derrek Lee last month when he was talking about being willing to be traded. That was as classless a thing as I’d seen him do and I lost almost all respect I had for him after those comments. It wasn’t only an attack on Derrek Lee, but also one on his current teammate, Aramis Ramirez. Zambrano is disliked for a reason.
As for past actions and how the media have treated him, I agree, but this isn’t defensible in my opinion. Lots of players have shitty games and stick around. Lots of players treat their teammates with enough respect to have at least one person the team who likes them. Zambrano did neither and I have no sympathy for the position he has put himself in.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Zambrano ——— Disqualified List
Not getting paid for 30 days, not allowed to have contact with the team, Apparently.
Union ———> appealing[/quote]exciting!
Apparently, Tyler Colvin is going to be allowed to prove he’s not completely done.
EDIT: against righties anyway.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Agreed. What’s happened so far is definitely grounds for a not-short suspension, but a lot more has to happen for them to void the contract.[/quote]Why are we only looking at what happened yesterday? A lot of shit has happened with Zambrano before yesterday. Last year he was given one of the longest team suspensions in the history of the game. The player’s union was going to appeal the Bradley suspension, but they weren’t even going to do that for Zambrano who was suspended much longer.
I don’t know if the combination of all that is enough, but the Cubs aren’t going to pay Zambrano shit without trying to void that contract. Nor should they. I don’t care if they have a 0.0000001% chance of voiding it. I think the Cubs could get 24 guys on their roster to come forward and talk about a lot of shit that we haven’t even heard about.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Zambrano ——— Disqualified List
Not getting paid for 30 days, not allowed to have contact with the team, Apparently.
Union ———> appealing[/quote]Wow. Has any team ever done that before?
mb22Quote Reply
So Z won’t pitch the rest of this year at least. Not for the Cubs or anyone. He won’t be stretched back out to get into big league games by the end of the regular season.
As for voiding a contract, who has been suspended by their team for a month two different times? That’s the pool of players we need to look at to see if the team was able to void a contract. I don’t think we’ll find it because I couldn’t find one player suspended as long as Z last year.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=mb22]Wow. Has any team ever done that before?[/quote]Mets tried it with K-rod. But it might have been appealed. Not sure.
binkyQuote Reply
I think they put him on the DQ list (K-Rod, that is), it was appealed, and the Union said they had no grounds. That was after he punched out his father in law. This is specifically baseball related, and like MB said, the Cubs have given Z at least 2 or 3 get out of jail free cards before now.
binkyQuote Reply
My .02:
Z is behaving like a petulant, spoiled asshole.
Quade has no control over his veterans.
This whole org is a fucking joke. Fans, players and management.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Also, the Nats threatened to do it to Soriano, who didn’t want to move to the outfield.
binkyQuote Reply
Sori went into the clubhouse and bitched Z out after he was ejected. I think that would be why he packed his shit and left. Can’t say I blame him. No way this 30 day no pay disqualified list stands.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]My .02:
Z is behaving like a petulant, spoiled asshole.
Quade has no control over his veterans.
This whole org is a fucking joke. Fans, players and management.[/quote]How are fans anything but victims in this farce? I just want to watch baseball and see my team perform. If I back out after three losses, I’m fair weather, if I see it through, I’m an asshole?
I didn’t buy tickets to a game for the first time in like 5 years, but to be fair, that had more to do with the new baby.
binkyQuote Reply
If Mr. Stand and Watch my Deep Fly Ball came in and lectured me I’d probably done much worse than walk out. Really Soriano has no room to question a guy that’s given 100% more effort than he has even thought of giving.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb22]Why are we only looking at what happened yesterday? A lot of shit has happened with Zambrano before yesterday. Last year he was given one of the longest team suspensions in the history of the game. The player’s union was going to appeal the Bradley suspension, but they weren’t even going to do that for Zambrano who was suspended much longer.
I don’t know if the combination of all that is enough, but the Cubs aren’t going to pay Zambrano shit without trying to void that contract. Nor should they. I don’t care if they have a 0.0000001% chance of voiding it. I think the Cubs could get 24 guys on their roster to come forward and talk about a lot of shit that we haven’t even heard about.[/quote]FWIW, Hendry told Sullivan he expects MLBPA to file a grievance. He’s pissed in their punchbowl too many times, methinks.
I dunno if they’ll be able to void his deal. What I exepct is that work out some kind of buyout before the end of the year. Hendry wants the salary relief and for Z to be gone, and Z obviously doesn’t want to pitch here, and if he retires, he’ll remain Cubs property for the duration of his deal, so it’s in his best interest to take a buyout if he wants to pitch again next season.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Sori went into the clubhouse and bitched Z out after he was ejected. I think that would be why he packed his shit and left. Can’t say I blame him. No way this 30 day no pay disqualified list stands.[/quote]
He was just mad he had to keep playing in the game and Z was able to lie down.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]If Mr. Stand and Watch my Deep Fly Ball came in and lectured me I’d probably done much worse than walk out. Really Soriano has no room to question a guy that’s given 100% more effort than he has even thought of giving.[/quote]Oh, come now. Soriano has always been praised for being one of the hardest workers on this team. Let’s not go too far here.
I’ve defended Z on a lot of things, but he acted like a fucking child yesterday, and Soriano was right to speak up.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Yeah, MO, you and b are probably right. I’d at least threaten. FWIW, I don’t think the MLBPA has a leg to stand on with regards to being put on the disqualified list. I’d been a wedding until a little while ago, but every single former player I’ve read who has talked about this has talked about how awful and unusual it was to see what Z did. But even if it doesn’t stand, Zambrano has thrown his last MLB pitch. There’s not a team that’s going to touch him for anything less than Zambrano paying them millions per win.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]How are fans anything but victims in this farce? I just want to watch baseball and see my team perform. If I back out after three losses, I’m fair weather, if I see it through, I’m an asshole?
I didn’t buy tickets to a game for the first time in like 5 years, but to be fair, that had more to do with the new baby.[/quote]Victims? (dying laughing)
Just…(dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Oh, come now. Soriano has always been praised for being one of the hardest workers on this team. Let’s not go too far here.
I’ve defended Z on a lot of things, but he acted like a fucking child yesterday, and Soriano was right to speak up.[/quote]Agreed. Nobody has ever questioned Soriano’s work ethic.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]FWIW, Hendry told Sullivan he expects MLBPA to file a grievance. He’s pissed in their punchbowl too many times, methinks.
I dunno if they’ll be able to void his deal. What I exepct is that work out some kind of buyout before the end of the year. Hendry wants the salary relief and for Z to be gone, and Z obviously doesn’t want to pitch here, and if he retires, he’ll remain Cubs property for the duration of his deal, so it’s in his best interest to take a buyout if he wants to pitch again next season.[/quote]Yeah, that’s probably true. It’ll be some middle ground. It’d be nice to see an org shakeup as a fallout of all this, but I’m not holding my breath.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb22]Yeah, MO, you and b are probably right. I’d at least threaten. FWIW, I don’t think the MLBPA has a leg to stand on with regards to being put on the disqualified list. I’d been a wedding until a little while ago, but every single former player I’ve read who has talked about this has talked about how awful and unusual it was to see what Z did. But even if it doesn’t stand, Zambrano has thrown his last MLB pitch. There’s not a team that’s going to touch him for anything less than Zambrano paying them millions per win.[/quote]The disqualified list will stand, but the suspension of pay won’t. MLBPA has a membership to consider, and they don;t want and won’t stand for team-mandated suspension of pay punishments to stand. IIRC, they backed off the Bradley grievance when the Cubs decided to pay him. That’s all that really matters to them, IMO.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Oh, come now. Soriano has always been praised for being one of the hardest workers on this team. Let’s not go too far here.
I’ve defended Z on a lot of things, but he acted like a fucking child yesterday, and Soriano was right to speak up.[/quote]
I never said Sori didn’t work hard to prep. Do you really believe between the lines that he gives more effort than Z? I’m sorry but he is not a guy that has given that effort even when Lou said they asked him to run out of the box, etc. I’m saying Soriano doesn’t have a lot of high ground considering all his defensive lackadasical misplays and failure to hustle when he puts the ball in play. I haven’t accused him of anything that hasn’t been blatantly obvious.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Yeah, that’s probably true. It’ll be some middle ground. It’d be nice to see an org shakeup as a fallout of all this, but I’m not holding my breath.[/quote]It’s incredible to me that Hendry has been given 3 managers, and has presided over numerous clubhouse explosions, almost all of which he has handled entirely hamfistedly, and yet he’s survived.
It’s obvious to me that Quade’s lost control of his vets. That Soriano and not Quade had to be the one to tell Z to grow the fuck up is not a good sign in this regard. That Z felt emboldened enough to behave in the manner in which he did, makes what was a suspicion a few weeks ago now almost a certainty.
This org needs a shakeup in the worst way. This incident is an excellent catalyst for such a change, but the question is whether Ricketts can properly read the tea leaves here, or will just stick his head in the sand while the Cubs scapegoat Zambrano for a season that represents an organizational failure on every single level.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb22]Agreed. Nobody has ever questioned Soriano’s work ethic.[/quote]
So you think he always gives max effort during games because that’s what I questioned. Let’s not deify Soriano in an effort to castigate Zambrano.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Victims? (dying laughing)
Just…(dying laughing)[/quote]I don’t know. What are fans supposed to do? What do you and I do? We get on a forum and bitch about it. No one cares about it. We’re not changing anything. I haven’t gone to a game this year. I paid $20 to listen to the season on the internet radio, when I don’t just listen on my car radio for free. I don’t buy anything from the Juno lighting group.
binkyQuote Reply
He didn’t want to become Hollandsworth’s next target.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]I don’t know. What are fans supposed to do? What do you and I do? We get on a forum and bitch about it. No one cares about it. We’re not changing anything. I haven’t gone to a game this year. I paid $20 to listen to the season on the internet radio, when I don’t just listen on my car radio for free. I don’t buy anything from the Juno lighting group.[/quote]If I declare from this day forward I’m not a Cubs fan, the Cubs stand to lose, maybe $10.
binkyQuote Reply
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6859293/pittsburgh-pirates-place-derrek-lee-wrist-15-day-disabled-list
Derrek Lee—>DL (wrist)
It’s a shame. I was really hoping he’d turn this season around, and for a while it looked like he was going to. Damn Marmol.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]So you think he always gives max effort during games because that’s what I questioned. Let’s not deify Soriano in an effort to castigate Zambrano.[/quote]I think Soriano tries as hard as he can. I just think his legs are so shot that he just can’t go anymore. OTOH, yes he admires his long flies, and that’s annoying, and yes he shies away from the wall on deep flyouts, but that doesn’t compare in the least with what Z did. Soriano has been booed more than Z and ripped in the media more than Z, and he’s borne up under it with aplomb. If there’s anyone who should be telling Z to suck it up, it’s probably Soriano, because he and Ramirez are the only players on the team who have taken as much shit (if not more) than Z.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I don’t know. What are fans supposed to do? What do you and I do? We get on a forum and bitch about it. No one cares about it. We’re not changing anything. I haven’t gone to a game this year. I paid $20 to listen to the season on the internet radio, when I don’t just listen on my car radio for free. I don’t buy anything from the Juno lighting group.[/quote]I’m not talking about you; I’m talking about the Yellons, because there are a lot more of them in this fanbase than there are folks like you.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Sammy got a job after he left the clubhouse early and his skills were probably even less valuable than Z’s are at this point. There are plenty of Cubs fans that hate Sammy for that and they’ll continue to have that torch burning for Z. Sad end for another guy that gave a lot to this org.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]He didn’t want to become Hollandsworth’s next target.[/quote]I love Ramirez’ reply. Hollandsworth just uses his bully pulpit to harp on players he hates and he deserves all the derision those players can muster in return.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]So you think he always gives max effort during games because that’s what I questioned. Let’s not deify Soriano in an effort to castigate Zambrano.[/quote]no, but I also don’t think Zambrano gives 100% effort all the time. No player does.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m not talking about you; I’m talking about the Yellons, because there are a lot more of them in this fanbase than there are folks like you.[/quote]Yeah, I know, but I feel as helpless as them. Yeah, they’re dupes in a lot of ways. A lot of people just go to games to yell and drink beer, but I don’t know if I have any more ability to affect change than they do.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Sammy got a job after he left the clubhouse early and his skills were probably even less valuable than Z’s are at this point. There are plenty of Cubs fans that hate Sammy for that and they’ll continue to have that torch burning for Z. Sad end for another guy that gave a lot to this org.[/quote]Yeah, it’s sad. Z has been a great player here, but he made his bed and now must lie in it.
Someone will pick him up if the Cubs can work a buyout, but this incident is going to cost him a lot of money. Between his declining skills and clubhouse issues, he’s not going to get paid much as a FA.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Z gives his all between the lines and for a guy that doesn’t to go after him seems wrong to me. I don’t care how much undue shit Sori has gotten it doesn’t make him Z’s superior. Z was booed off the mound in his first start at Wrigley after he threw a no-hitter, let’s not pretend he’s been beloved and unquestioned.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, it’s sad. Z has been a great player here, but he made his bed and now must lie in it.
Someone will pick him up if the Cubs can work a buyout, but this incident is going to cost him a lot of money. Between his declining skills and clubhouse issues, he’s not going to get paid much as a FA.[/quote]he may finally have earned his way on the Nippon Fighting Hams.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Z gives his all between the lines and for a guy that doesn’t to go after him seems wrong to me. I don’t care how much undue shit Sori has gotten it doesn’t make him Z’s superior. Z was booed off the mound in his first start at Wrigley after he threw a no-hitter, let’s not pretend he’s been beloved and unquestioned.[/quote]No one is pretending that. Or at least I’m not pretending that. All I’m saying is if there’s anyone on this team that knows exactly what Z has been through and has handled it with 100x more professionalism, it’s Soriano. And so it’s right he be the one to talk with Z.
We should also be careful to accept the account that says Soriano yelled at Z. We know the local scribes are liars. We have documented some of their lies at ACB. So there’s no guarantee Soriano even yelled or was angry. It’s one “source” saying so. Who knows whether or not it’s true.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Nor why he might have talked to him. Did Sori hear the mysterious equipment manager tell Q that Z said he was done and run down to talk him out of it? Or did Z tell that directly to Sori? Does it matter? The guy walked out. Unwritten or no, it’s just not something you do. Every time it’s ever happened in professional sports, it’s a big deal. I’ve never heard a report that said “X walked out, players have a good laugh about it.”
binkyQuote Reply
Soriano gave a statement on it, I believe that’s how the media found out. I don’t know if he yelled or not and wasn’t trying to project that image. Its my understanding he bitched him out and told him about himself but don’t know that he yelled or was going on a tirade
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Nor why he might have talked to him. Did Sori hear the mysterious equipment manager tell Q that Z said he was done and run down to talk him out of it? Or did Z tell that directly to Sori? Does it matter? The guy walked out. Unwritten or no, it’s just not something you do. Every time it’s ever happened in professional sports, it’s a big deal. I’ve never heard a report that said “X walked out, players have a good laugh about it.”[/quote]Yeah, there’s just something about the Soriano story that bugs me, mainly that if it did happen, it’s extremely odd that Sullivan and Gordo wouldn’t have been all over it. It’s right up their alley.
I jsut think we all need to be extremely judicious with what stories we take to be true over the next week or so. A lot of shit is going to come out, and given the fabulists that work for sports pages in Chicago, it’s likely that a certain percentage of it will be pure fiction.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Soriano gave a statement on it, I believe that’s how the media found out. I dint know if he yelled or not and wasn’t trying to project that image. Its my understanding he bitched him out and told him about himself but don’t know that he yelled or was going on a tirade[/quote]I didn’t see Soriano quoted on it. Where’s that statement?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6859293/pittsburgh-pirates-place-derrek-lee-wrist-15-day-disabled-list
Derrek Lee—>DL (wrist)
It’s a shame. I was really hoping he’d turn this season around, and for a while it looked like he was going to. Damn Marmol.[/quote]I didn’t know Marm actually hit Derrek, I thought it was a brush back.
binkyQuote Reply
Here’s the vid of the HBP. Painful. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17644953
ACTQuote Reply
This is the only story I’ve found about the Soriano-Z thing: http://eye-on-baseball.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/31296083?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001
It’s just cites “a source.” I’ll put out some feelers.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I didn’t see Soriano quoted on it. Where’s that statement?[/quote]
I haven’t looked online. It’s being reported on radio and I think they said CBS online sports had quote. I’m on phone so I haven’t had chance to look it up. They’ve reported Sori’s remarks on radio numerous times and it sounded like he offered it up. No investigative reporting from the beat, unsurprisingly. (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I haven’t looked online. It’s being reported on radio and I think they said CBS online sports had quote. I’m on phone so I haven’t had chance to look it up. They’ve reported Sori’s remarks on radio numerous times and it sounded like he offered it up. No investigative reporting from the beat, unsurprisingly. (dying laughing)[/quote]I can’t find anything that quotes Soriano, but I don’t have access to local radio.
The fact that neither Gordo nor Sullivan is running with this story really gives me pause.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I agree that this whole incident is mostly of Z’s own doing, but I’m still sad, upset and disappointed that this is the end of the road for one of my favorite Cubs ever. It sucks.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I can’t find anything that quotes Soriano, but I don’t have access to local radio.
The fact that neither Gordo nor Sullivan is running with this story really gives me pause.[/quote]
He just gave the quotes in the clubhouse. Seems pretty fresh and they quoted him directly on the score. Never said an unnamed source says Sori bitched Z out. Sori claimed he went in and called him out.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]He just gave the quotes in the clubhouse. Seems pretty fresh and they quoted him directly on the score. Never said an unnamed source says Sori bitched Z out. Sori claimed he went in and called him out.[/quote]They said Soriano said it, or they played tape of him saying it?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I agree that this whole incident is mostly of Z’s own doing, but I’m still sad, upset and disappointed that this is the end of the road for one of my favorite Cubs ever. It sucks.[/quote]THIS
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The Latino faction appears to be splintering.
Uncle SexQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisley]The Latino faction appears to be splintering.[/quote]
Am I wrong to think this incident, however it actually went down, speaks to the rumor that Quade has lost his locker room?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It’s incredible to me that Hendry has been given 3 managers, and has presided over numerous clubhouse explosions, almost all of which he has handled entirely hamfistedly, and yet he’s survived.
It’s obvious to me that Quade’s lost control of his vets. That Soriano and not Quade had to be the one to tell Z to grow the fuck up is not a good sign in this regard. That Z felt emboldened enough to behave in the manner in which he did, makes what was a suspicion a few weeks ago now almost a certainty.
This org needs a shakeup in the worst way. This incident is an excellent catalyst for such a change, but the question is whether Ricketts can properly read the tea leaves here, or will just stick his head in the sand while the Cubs scapegoat Zambrano for a season that represents an organizational failure on every single level.[/quote]
If you could just shout that numerous times over and over, you have a real future in either sports or political talk radio.
Chris DickersonQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]They said Soriano said it, or they played tape of him saying it?[/quote]
No tape. They read direct quote excerpt of what he said.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]If you could just shout that numerous times over and over, you have a real future in either sports or political talk radio.[/quote]I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or an insult. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m not sure if that’s a compliment or an insult. (dying laughing)[/quote]
It’s a complinsult. Or an incompliment.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]No tape. They read direct quote excerpt of what he said.[/quote]I’m betting they read from the CBS story and quoted the source, not Soriano.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
So we taking bets on whether Z shows up in protest to the DQ list? Is it like when you’ve been suspended and you can keep playing until they make a decision?
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]It’s a complinsult. Or an incompliment.[/quote]It could go either way.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]So we taking bets on whether Z shows up in protest to the DQ list? Is it like when you’ve been suspended and you can keep playing until they make a decision?[/quote]
Methinks that’d just result in a run-around where the Cubs either skip him in the rotation or make up a mysterious injury so he can’t play anyway. I don’t know how these types of procedures work but I wouldn’t be surprised if they did everything they could to ensure Z can’t play even if they end up having to pay him.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]So we taking bets on whether Z shows up in protest to the DQ list? Is it like when you’ve been suspended and you can keep playing until they make a decision?[/quote]No. Players on the DQ list cannot have any contact with team, use team facilities, etc. If Z knows what is good for him, he’ll stay away. The Cubs have him under contract and if he wants to play baseball before 2013, he’ll not goad them.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]No. Players on the DQ list cannot have any contact with team, use team facilities, etc. If Z knows what is good for him, he’ll stay away. The Cubs have him under contract and if he wants to play baseball before 2013, he’ll not goad them.[/quote]
He should go play poker.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]He should go play poker.[/quote]
Ha.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]He should go play poker.[/quote]It seems CSN loves employing disgruntled former players…
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Via Sullivan:
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]No. Players on the DQ list cannot have any contact with team, use team facilities, etc. If Z knows what is good for him, he’ll stay away. The Cubs have him under contract and if he wants to play baseball before 2013, he’ll not goad them.[/quote]My only thought would be if the Players Union tells him to report for duty until it is resolved. I know he wouldn’t play either way, but I’m curious how much pull the union has. I would wager it goes the other way, too. That if the Union appeal goes through, at worst, they have to suspend him with pay instead of without.
binkyQuote Reply
Shit is all out of control. It is a fucking asylum and the patients are all off their meds and turning on each other.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Shit is all out of control. It is a fucking asylum and the patients are all off their meds and turning on each other.[/quote]THE CLOWN CAR IS ON FIRE!
[Cue Yakity Sax]
binkyQuote Reply
http://www.whatchannelarethebearsontonight.com
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Via Sullivan:[/quote]That’s pretty damning (and true), but it still doesn’t mean he went off on him in the locker room
[quote name=Aisle424]Shit is all out of control. It is a fucking asylum and the patients are all off their meds and turning on each other.[/quote]The captain has lost the ship.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The captain has lost the ship.[/quote]Hopefully what we don’t see: Hendry fires Quade. Hendry stays on because, hey, it wasn’t HIS fault. Ricketts claps and drools on himself.
binkyQuote Reply
HEARD THIS from Buster Olney.
Z returned his shit to his locker late Friday night, told the club he’s not retiring.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]HEARD THIS from Buster Olney.
Z returned his shit to his locket late Friday night, told the club he’s not retiring.[/quote]
I guess in this case you have a source. The plot thickens.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Hopefully what we don’t see: Hendry fires Quade. Hendry stays on because, hey, it wasn’t HIS fault. Ricketts claps and drools on himself.[/quote]Wouldn’t be surprised, but I just don’t see Hendry 1.) being allowed to hire yet another manger or 2.) being willing to fire Quade when it’s easier to tag injuries and a bad clubhouse with this year’s failures.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]HEARD THIS from Buster Olney.
Z returned his shit to his locker late Friday night, told the club he’s not retiring.[/quote]WTF. Maybe Z needs to retire, because it seems like baseball is making him crazy.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Wouldn’t be surprised, but I just don’t see Hendry 1.) being allowed to hire yet another manger or 2.) being willing to fire Quade when it’s easier to tag injuries and a bad clubhouse with this year’s failures.[/quote]I was fantasizing about a Z induced shakeup.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]WTF. Maybe Z needs to retire, because it seems like baseball is making him crazy.[/quote]
I sincerely hope that Z doesn’t snap for real. That would be tragic on too many levels to even joke about.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I was fantasizing about a Z induced shakeup.[/quote]It would be pretty nice to see Ricketts act like the boss for once and purge this org of the motley crew currently in the FO. But I don’t hold out hope for that.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]WTF. Maybe Z needs to retire, because it seems like baseball is making him crazy.[/quote]Here is when I wish Ryno worked weekends. We need a repeating gif of Cuey rocking with the blank stare.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Here is when I wish Ryno worked weekends. We need a repeating gif of Cuey rocking with the blank stare.[/quote]Maybe if GBTS is still around, if he’s not already working on one.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I think GBTS will take care of it, if he hasn’t already started watching the Bears.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Maybe if GBTS is still around, if he’s not already working on one.[/quote]It would be great to shop in a straightjacket on him.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Did you guys see this from Hendry:
“We’ve had other instances of him not being the teammates I would aspire him to be,” he said. “And certainly not all of that is public. You can tell by the sanction we’re trying to enforer that it’s not tolerated, and it’s not right for the other 24. It’s just totally uncalled for.”
Jdo45Quote Reply
So there’s been other things that havent been released. I guess not everything is public with the Cubs (dying laughing)
Jdo45Quote Reply
More Hendry!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/cubs-to-retain-gm-jim-hendry.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Jdo45]Did you guys see this from Hendry:
“We’ve had other instances of him not being the teammates I would aspire him to be,” he said. “And certainly not all of that is public. You can tell by the sanction we’re trying to enforer that it’s not tolerated, and it’s not right for the other 24. It’s just totally uncalled for.” [/quote]Link?
Look, it’s easy for Hendry to say that now. But if he’d stop and think, he’d realize this just makes himself look either stupid or negligent. He either A.) never knew Z was an ass in the clubhouse and gave him a big deal without stopping to find out, or he B.) knew about all these “incidents” and didn’t give a shit because Z was pitching well.
No one is blameless here. Z has been acting this way since he got here, and he was enabled in his behavior by the team (and the fans) until he passed the point of usefulness on the field. Only then did his childish antics become a problem. Hendry’s after the fact rationalizing and his milquetoast Pontius Pilate routine are wholly unimpressive.
They should all be gone. Kenney on down. Tear it down, start over. Purge.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]More Hendry!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/cubs-to-retain-gm-jim-hendry.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed%5B/quote%5DBecause what this team needs is more of what they’ve already had.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Curtis Granderson = Jose Bautista = 33 HR
Rice CubeQuote Reply
John Smoltz here:
Is he calling out the Cubs and is this accurate?
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Link?
Look, it’s easy for Hendry to say that now. But if he’d stop and think, he’d realize this just makes himself look either stupid or negligent. He either A.) never knew Z was an ass in the clubhouse and gave him a big deal without stopping to find out, or he B.) knew about all these “incidents” and didn’t give a shit because Z was pitching well.
No one is blameless here. Z has been acting this way since he got here, and he was enabled in his behavior by the team (and the fans) until he passed the point of usefulness on the field. Only then did his childish antics become a problem. Hendry’s after the fact rationalizing and his milquetoast Pontius Pilate routine are wholly unimpressive.
They should all be gone. Kenney on down. Tear it down, start over. Purge.[/quote]
Here is the link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-in-talks-with-zambranos-agent-20110813,0,7994004.story
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]More Hendry!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/cubs-to-retain-gm-jim-hendry.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed%5B/quote%5D
This might be the saddest news of the day (dying laughing)
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]John Smoltz here:
Is he calling out the Cubs and is this accurate?[/quote]I think the latter.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Here is the link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-in-talks-with-zambranos-agent-20110813,0,7994004.story%5B/quote%5DHendry should save that for his talk with MLBPA. But this FO loves the court of public opinion.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
How much you want to bet that the Cubs win out now that a clubhouse cancer has been excised?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]How much you want to bet that the Cubs win out now that a clubhouse cancer has been excised?[/quote]Maybe if they cut enough of their
shitty playersclubhouse problems they’ll win some games. This is a brilliant new strategy by the Cubs! How did I not see it sooner?Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The Cubs, united as a team, score first.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Team Leader and Ginger Dugout Acrobat Ryan Dempster begins the “we can win now that the bad man has been appropriately shunned” mantra:
Gordo also saw fit, unlike Sullivan, not to truncate Soriano’s quote:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/7052740-573/cubs-place-carlos-zambrano-on-disqualified-list.html
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]The Cubs, united as a team, score first.[/quote]PRAISE THE LORD THE SPIRIT HAS BEEN LIFTED!
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Uggla —> 33-game hit streak.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’m starting to think it’s impossible for Randy Wells to record an out without the ball being put in play.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m starting to think it’s impossible for Randy Wells to record an out without the ball being put in play.[/quote]
He’s giving up like a homer per 5 innings. Yikes
Jdo45Quote Reply
Castro keeps getting those hits.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Every ball from Wells is just hammered. Even the outs. I’m not sure he can be an effective ML pitcher anymore.
Jdo45Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]PRAISE THE LORD THE SPIRIT HAS BEEN LIFTED!
[/quote]
Fixed
cdwQuote Reply
Feels like after this Z incident the community here is changing their opinions on Z’s earlier behavior from innocuous to damaging.
Hate to see Z’s Cubs career end this way. I still hope he ends up pitching for competent organization next year. I’d love to see him in the playoffs again. And hope a move to the bullpen in a year or two prolongs his career.
cdwQuote Reply
Also, I recommend Clown Shoes’ Tramp Stamp Belgian IPA. The dirty Belgian yeast is a nice compliment to the strength of the hops.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]Also, I recommend Clown Shoes’ Tramp Stamp Belgian IPA. The dirty Belgian yeast is a nice compliment to the strength of the hops.[/quote]Sorry, I drink Miller Lite for flavor.
GBTSQuote Reply
Hey GBTS, you’re just in time for batting practice.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I think I’m the only person here who finds this latest Z mess hilarious.
GBTSQuote Reply
love your avatar, cdw (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Sorry, I drink Miller Lite for flavor.[/quote]
Miller Lite offers a sense of balance usually reserved for the Flying Wallendas. The blend of water and bivalent cations is sublime. A hint of aluminum offers a nice, late to the pallet, depth that is lacking in the trendy craft beer in a can brews.
cdwQuote Reply
I’m so glad Chris Harris is back at SS.
GBTSQuote Reply
Vogelbach signing is official, btw
BerseliusQuote Reply
Clubhouse cancer gone —> Cubs 3, Braves 1
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Vogelbach signing is official, btw[/quote]
Sounds like Baez is a done deal as well (from AceCubbie)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Maples?
GBTSQuote Reply
Chipper watched one go that didn’t leave the field. He’s well known to be the laziest ballplayer ever.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Sounds like Baez is a done deal as well (from AceCubbie)[/quote]False.
http://twitter.com/#!/PWSullivan/status/102531307157979136
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]False.
http://twitter.com/#!/PWSullivan/status/102531307157979136%5B/quote%5D
It’ll probably get done eventually. Maples could go either way.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Vogelbach signing is official, btw[/quote]
The Cubs are preparing their projected lineups to be competitive in the World Series. I like this signing but I’m worried that if his glove doesn’t play at 1B he’ll have to go to the AL.
cdwQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
http://twitter.com/#!/billbarnwell/status/102518255729639424
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS](dying laughing)
http://twitter.com/#!/billbarnwell/status/102518255729639424%5B/quote%5D
+1
Rice CubeQuote Reply
CALEB HANIE HAS MORE TOUCHDOWNS THAN JAY CUTLER
GBTSQuote Reply
Cancer-free Cubs —-> 5-1
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]CALEB HANIE HAS MORE TOUCHDOWNS THAN JAY CUTLER[/quote]
Preseason success FTW!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Cancer-free Cubs —-> 5-1[/quote]
I’m rooting for another late game Cub bullpen aneurysm and a high draft pick.
I’m guessing by the end of the season the cancer will have come out of remission and metastasized to bring Mordor doom to next season.
Over/Under on Walt’s cancer rebounding this season?
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Vogelbach signing is official, btw[/quote]
is there a link for that?
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]is there a link for that?[/quote]
http://www.bleachernation.com/2011/08/13/draft-update-reports-say-cubs-have-signed-baez-vogelbach-and-urban/
The Hobbitt disputes the Baez signing but it should get done
BerseliusQuote Reply
This is classic Cubs. Say there’s a ton of stuff no one knows about and then punish an action that everyone does know about that doesn’t constitute jack.
Milton Bradley was a bad guy. If the Cubs could tell you everything he did, you’d know it was a lot worse than anyone outside knew about. Then he said the Cubs are too negative and that there’s a reason they lose all the time. Suspended! (Maybe talking to Bruce Miles isn’t that big of an offense, but trust us, the other stuff was bad enough to warrant it.)
Carlos Zambrano. Yelled at Derrek Lee. Pretty loudly. SUSPENDED! Send him to anger management. Wonder how the world continues to revolve after such evil was unleashed upon it. (And trust us, he’s done much worse in private.)
Again, Big Z. This time he threw at Chipper Jones. Got ejected. Left early. AND HE TOOK HIS THINGS. HE. TOOK. HIS. THINGS! SUSPENDED. 30 days. 1 for throwing at Chipper. 1 for each homer surrendered. 4 for leaving early. 10 for taking his stuff. 1 for taking his nameplate. 9 for doing lots of other stuff we can’t tell you about (but trust us, totally evil).
I don’t care if you like Zambrano. I don’t care if he’s the scum of the earth.I don’t care if he just broke Barry Bonds’ homerun record and ended sports history by taking his talents to South Beach. This punishment doesn’t fit what he actually did. It makes no sense. I’m just glad Jim Hendry’s the GM and not Tucker Carlson.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Talk about variance…
8 H, 2 ER (one homer), just ONE STRIKEOUT. Wow.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
This made me choke on my
Miller LiteStone.GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]This punishment doesn’t fit what he actually did. It makes no sense. [/quote]
I believe Z broke the cardinal unwritten rule of never walking out on your team. Which I can sort of agree with, but I don’t really think he should have been suspended for so long, or at all. They probably could have handled this more internally. *sigh*
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I believe Z broke the cardinal unwritten rule of never walking out on your team. Which I can sort of agree with, but I don’t really think he should have been suspended for so long, or at all. They probably could have handled this more internally. *sigh*[/quote]You’re right, RC. I’m wondering, too, what written rules he violated. Is it a breach of contract to leave the team after an ejection? If it’s an unwritten rule, this DQ is a crock. If he pissed on an actual rule, they obviously have a right to punishment, but I can’t imagine there’s precedent for it to be this harsh.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Link?
Look, it’s easy for Hendry to say that now. But if he’d stop and think, he’d realize this just makes himself look either stupid or negligent. He either A.) never knew Z was an ass in the clubhouse and gave him a big deal without stopping to find out, or he B.) knew about all these “incidents” and didn’t give a shit because Z was pitching well.
No one is blameless here. Z has been acting this way since he got here, and he was enabled in his behavior by the team (and the fans) until he passed the point of usefulness on the field. Only then did his childish antics become a problem. Hendry’s after the fact rationalizing and his milquetoast Pontius Pilate routine are wholly unimpressive.
They should all be gone. Kenney on down. Tear it down, start over. Purge.[/quote]I think you may be looking at this slightly wrong, MO. Think about all the shit Barry Bonds did in SF and got away with. Imagine all the other shit he did and you never heard about. I wouldn’t even be surprised to learn that some of the minor things we never even heard about was him leaving games early or banging other players wives. The guy got away with everything and the Giants kept him around. He was worth it. But even the Giants started to distance themselves a bit from Bonds in the end.
I’m not comparing Zambrano to Bonds, but for a time he was very good at baseball and you’re going to put up with a lot more shit from those guys. The Cubs put up with a lot of shit that we never heard about from Sosa because he was “belting” 60 home runs per season. Albert Pujols tells a reporter to go sit in the corner and it’s nothing.
What we see here is that the shit Z used to get away with he can no longer get away with. We saw it with Sosa and now we see it with Zambrano.
Perhaps MLB teams need to teach these guys to behave differently, but my guess is it does not matter what you say to the really, really good players. They’re going to do it how they want and the team that hires them is going to put up with it because they’re so good. But when they lose their skills, look out.
mb22Quote Reply
(dying laughing)
mb22Quote Reply
The frustrating thing about Zambrano and Sosa (and you’re right, MB, the scenarios are very similar) is that with both of them to be their fan meant arguing with other Cubs fans for years that it was actually worth having them on the team. Year after year they’d be productive and Cubs fans would talk about how much they sucked, how overpaid they were, what jerks they were. So when their careers end in ignominy, you gotta endure all the gloating from the idiots who, for the first time in a decade, are finally right. I hate that shit.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Damn, Castro can hit. If it weren’t for him, there’s no way I’m still watching this team at this point.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]The frustrating thing about Zambrano and Sosa (and you’re right, MB, the scenarios are very similar) is that with both of them to be their fan meant arguing with other Cubs fans for years that it was actually worth having them on the team. Year after year they’d be productive and Cubs fans would talk about how much they sucked, how overpaid they were, what jerks they were. So when their careers end in ignominy, you gotta endure all the gloating from the idiots who, for the first time in a decade, are finally right. I hate that shit.[/quote]
Yup…
On the bright side, this Starlin Castro kid is pretty cool.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’m just waiting for all the rhetoric about how getting rid of a clubhouse cancer finally brought the team together. 7-2 Cubs.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but yeah, I also hate that shit. I hated it with Sosa and I’ll hate it just as much with Zambrano. Most sports fans aren’t able to separate their current emotions with the ones they’ve had for so long. I’ve criticized Zambrano here, but in a month all I’m going to remember about Big Z are the good memories he helped create. There’s a time for criticism and there’s a time to reflect. There’s also a time to balance it out and consider the player not as he was at the end, but how he was overall. Zambrano, while undoubtedly frustrating, was a damn valuable player to this team, he was super exciting, and in many years the only fucking reason to watch the team.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]
Unfortunately, this Starlin Castro kid isn’t getting better thanks to Aramis.[/quote]/Holly’d.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=mb22]Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but yeah, I also hate that shit. I hated it with Sosa and I’ll hate it just as much with Zambrano. Most sports fans aren’t able to separate their current emotions with the ones they’ve had for so long. I’ve criticized Zambrano here, but in a month all I’m going to remember about Big Z are the good memories he helped create. There’s a time for criticism and there’s a time to reflect. There’s also a time to balance it out and consider the player not as he was at the end, but how he was overall. Zambrano, while undoubtedly frustrating, was a damn valuable player to this team, he was super exciting, and in many years the only fucking reason to watch the team.[/quote]THIS THIS THIS 1000x THIS
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]This is classic Cubs. Say there’s a ton of stuff no one knows about and then punish an action that everyone does know about that doesn’t constitute jack.
Milton Bradley was a bad guy. If the Cubs could tell you everything he did, you’d know it was a lot worse than anyone outside knew about. Then he said the Cubs are too negative and that there’s a reason they lose all the time. Suspended! (Maybe talking to Bruce Miles isn’t that big of an offense, but trust us, the other stuff was bad enough to warrant it.)
Carlos Zambrano. Yelled at Derrek Lee. Pretty loudly. SUSPENDED! Send him to anger management. Wonder how the world continues to revolve after such evil was unleashed upon it. (And trust us, he’s done much worse in private.)
Again, Big Z. This time he threw at Chipper Jones. Got ejected. Left early. AND HE TOOK HIS THINGS. HE. TOOK. HIS. THINGS! SUSPENDED. 30 days. 1 for throwing at Chipper. 1 for each homer surrendered. 4 for leaving early. 10 for taking his stuff. 1 for taking his nameplate. 9 for doing lots of other stuff we can’t tell you about (but trust us, totally evil).
I don’t care if you like Zambrano. I don’t care if he’s the scum of the earth.I don’t care if he just broke Barry Bonds’ homerun record and ended sports history by taking his talents to South Beach. This punishment doesn’t fit what he actually did. It makes no sense. I’m just glad Jim Hendry’s the GM and not Tucker Carlson.[/quote](dying laughing) I don’t completely agree, but this is awesome, AC. Well done.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Man, the “we’re good now that we got rid of the big fat meany” mantra that Dempster started will be in full swing now.
Maybe that’s what makes me so mad at Z: he just handed Hendry and Ricketts the perfect excuse for the shitpile of failfucking that they built this season.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb22]There’s a time for criticism and there’s a time to reflect. There’s also a time to balance it out and consider the player not as he was at the end, but how he was overall.[/quote]
Were you going more for “Turn, Turn, Turn” by The Byrds
A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep
or
“Rappers Delight” by Sugarhill Gang
Now there’s a time to laugh a time to cry
A time to live and a time to die
A time to break and a time to chill
To act civilized or act real ill
Chris DickersonQuote Reply
The Bears’ OL seems uninspired by the suspension of Carlos Zambrano. Mike Martz is going to get Cutler killed.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
It’s also fan rhetoric to say “what’s the big deal” when someone they like takes a huge dump on the whole team. The thing with Derrek Lee wasn’t just about Derrek Lee. It’s possible, just possible, that when a player whose been kind of a pain in the ass, but a tolerable one (because he was so exciting) starts to decline, he actually becomes more insufferable, not just relative to his talent, but literally more insufferable. Z was of that type. It was frustrating for years watching him throw like shit when he failed to get a hit, but it was exciting when he did well and got pumped up and was in the zone. But then his skills start to decline, he starts talking about how shitty everyone else is, he walks out on his team, etc. in short, he does everything he can to make sure it stays the Carlos Zambrano show, because his numbers sure as hell aren’t going to do that.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]The frustrating thing about Zambrano and Sosa (and you’re right, MB, the scenarios are very similar) is that with both of them to be their fan meant arguing with other Cubs fans for years that it was actually worth having them on the team. Year after year they’d be productive and Cubs fans would talk about how much they sucked, how overpaid they were, what jerks they were. So when their careers end in ignominy, you gotta endure all the gloating from the idiots who, for the first time in a decade, are finally right. I hate that shit.[/quote]Yes, this is infuriating. Even more infuriating is fucking Cruller Jim appealing to this kind of emotion.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]It’s also fan rhetoric to say “what’s the big deal” when someone they like takes a huge dump on the whole team. [/quote](dying laughing)
Also true.The sad thing is, this is the first event that’s made me really motivated to talk about the Cubs since late April.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Totally. This is the most exciting thing the team has done in two years
binkyQuote Reply
Just in case this is the end of Z as we know him…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zambrca01.shtml
.607 win percentage in 11 seasons with a 123 ERA+. Second all-time in strikeouts by a Cubs pitcher behind Fergie Jenkins. 32.1 rWAR amassed, another 5.3 rWAR with the bat (23 HR, 69 RBI). It’s too bad the end came like this but the man was no slouch.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Just in case this is the end of Z as we know him…
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zambrca01.shtml
.607 win percentage in 11 seasons with a 123 ERA+. Second all-time in strikeouts by a Cubs pitcher behind Fergie Jenkins. 32.1 rWAR amassed, another 5.3 rWAR with the bat (23 HR, 69 RBI). It’s too bad the end came like this but the man was no slouch.[/quote]Watch him find a job as a DH.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Watch him find a job as a DH.[/quote]
He’d be a pretty bad DH methinks (dying laughing)
Great hitting pitcher, but even those are suck compared to your run-of-the-mill position player. Although probably still better than Koyie Hill.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]He’d be a pretty bad DH methinks (dying laughing)
Great hitting pitcher, but even those are suck compared to your run-of-the-mill position player. Although probably still better than Koyie Hill.[/quote]It all depends on if he can see a lot of fastballs. Plus, if he focused just on improving his hitting in the off-season, I could see him doing okay. Plus, there’s been a few that started as pitchers, such as Rick Ankiel. That said, I seriously doubt anyone would give him that chance because, yeah, he’s a pitcher.
binkyQuote Reply
Cubs win, cancer-free.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
It’s hard to know what Z could do as a position player. Regular playing time would help him, as would focusing only on hitting. On the other hand, regularly playing time might also expose his weaknesses. Not sure about that. We’re also not sure what his true talent is as a hitter.
mb22Quote Reply
[quote name=mb22]It’s hard to know what Z could do as a position player. Regular playing time would help him, as would focusing only on hitting. On the other hand, regularly playing time might also expose his weaknesses. Not sure about that. We’re also not sure what his true talent is as a hitter.[/quote]True enough. In all honesty, he doesn’t have a very good looking swing.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]True enough. In all honesty, he doesn’t have a very good looking swing.[/quote]
He doesn’t try to adjust to the ball for the most part. He just swings as hard as he can. That’s good for the 0.5% of the time that he can hit a homer but not so good for every other time.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/games/cubs-vs-braves-win-expectancy-chart.html
mb22Quote Reply