Bruce Levine is reporting today that Oneiri Fleita got a four-year extension as Vice President of Player Personnel earlier this week. This is huge for a couple of reasons: 1) it means a Cubs beat reporter may have reported a story within the same calendar week as when the events actually occurred (largely believed to be an omen signaling the beginning of the end of the world) and 2) the Cubs made this move without first having a new General Manager in place (which is largely believed to be an omen signaling the beginning of the end of the world – on Twitter anyway).
I’m not nearly as concerned as the people OMGing all over the place like the Cubs just signed Aaron Miles to a 10-year, $300 million contract as a pitcher.
How much money could Oneiri Fleita possibly make? A million dollars a year? Maybe? I can’t find anything solid, but Ivychat Chuck said Hendry was rumored to make $2.5 million per year as the GM, so the guy reporting to him probably makes less, and probably significantly less. That would make the Cubs on the hook to Oneiri Fleita for an additional $4-$6 million total.
I understand that is a lot of money, but when you are talking about the kind of money that streams through a major baseball organization like the Cubs, that is nothing. This is a team that is looking at pissing away tens of millions to rid themselves of Zambrano and Soriano. What’s a few more if the new GM decides he doesn’t like Oneiri Fleita when he gets here?
There are a lot of important details missing before we all go jumping off a bridge because Ricketts made a move that is, admittedly, a bit out of the ordinary. Is he guaranteed that position? Is he guaranteed certain job responsibilities?
Fleita gets four more years as VP of Player Development. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility that the Cubs create a position above Fleita (a President of Player Development?) inserted above him in the organizational hierarchy. Shit like that happens in corporate America all the time, and we know Tom is fluent in corporate-speak and double-talk.
In the last thread, MB hypothesized that maybe the Ricketts already have the GM choices down to a short list and could have determined from each of them that they would be amenable to having Fleita kept as part of the organization if they got the job. The fact that this has not been reported doesn’t mean anything since we are just now learning from the Chicago press that Kennedy was shot.
We know that the reason Ricketts extended Fleita is because he is highly regarded and being sought by opposing teams. Maybe the Cubs locked him up to keep him a Cub, knowing that no contract in sports is an iron-clad blood oath between the two parties if there are other interested parties involved. Maybe the Tigers will be willing to part with a prospect in order to get their hands on Fleita if the next GM decides he’s not his man.
The worst case scenario is that the new guy comes in and fires Fleita on the first day he’s on the job and the Cubs pissed away $4-$6 million. That is hardly the end of the world for this team.
Comments
I’d say $4-6 million is the most he makes and yeah, who cares? I’m also pretty sure this contract doesn’t happen unless Ricketts was confident he was going to be kept around.
This is no big deal. It’s just interesting.
mb21Quote Reply
ACT, I feel more confiedent in Sean Marshall too and there’s a reason for it: he’s better than Marmol.
mb21Quote Reply
I was actually hoping the pic of the day would be of Derrek Lee unleashing his power against the Cubs. Always liked Derrek Lee and was sad to see him go. Alas.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’d say $4-6 million is the most he makes and yeah, who cares? I’m also pretty sure this contract doesn’t happen unless Ricketts was confident he was going to be kept around.
This is no big deal. It’s just interesting.[/quote]
I’m a little surprised this got out when Hendry’s firing didn’t. Did Levine get this from a “source?” Did he get it from Ricketts himself? There is nothing in the story that indicates the Cubs have verified this. Not that it isn’t true, but it seems this was not something the Cubs decided to announce for public consumption.
It’s weird.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I mean, if they did announce it, they had to know how it would play. The Cubs have zero credibility with the fanbase right now so anything unconventional is going to be viewed as Ricketts not knowing what he is doing. They have to know that.
So it makes it even stranger that this even became a story. Maybe the beat guys are getting more diligent in their digging for stories after getting humiliated after the Hendry announcement. Levine, at least, seems to be digging around more. He’s also the one who got the Stephen Walters hiring (eventually).
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I’m a little surprised this got out when Hendry’s firing didn’t. Did Levine get this from a “source?” Did he get it from Ricketts himself? There is nothing in the story that indicates the Cubs have verified this. Not that it isn’t true, but it seems this was not something the Cubs decided to announce for public consumption.
It’s weird.[/quote]
Fleita has been around the Cubs for awhile and I don’t ever remember an announcement that he was rehired. I just don’t think it’s the kind of postion that teams publicly announce. Scouting Director has become kind of a big deal the last few years, but other than that about the only signings that are announced are GM signings and managerial signings.
mb21Quote Reply
I’d be curious to know which reliever more teams would be interested in acquiring: Marshall or Marmol. I’d prefer the Cubs keep Marshall, but I’d trade one of them if I was running things.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I mean, if they did announce it, they had to know how it would play. The Cubs have zero credibility with the fanbase right now so anything unconventional is going to be viewed as Ricketts not knowing what he is doing. They have to know that.
So it makes it even stranger that this even became a story. Maybe the beat guys are getting more diligent in their digging for stories after getting humiliated after the Hendry announcement. Levine, at least, seems to be digging around more. He’s also the one who got the Stephen Walters hiring (eventually).[/quote]
I did think it was strange that an underling was given an extension before the GM was installed, but it’s not a big deal to me because the new GM can basically say “make your young players take more walks or find another job” a la Billy Beane. It’d be interesting to see what the Cubs do in light of this breaking news.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’d be curious to know which reliever more teams would be interested in acquiring: Marshall or Marmol. I’d prefer the Cubs keep Marshall, but I’d trade one of them if I was running things.[/quote]
I think at this point Marshall would bring back more this offseason but it could totally flip flop next season, with relievers being so volatile and all. I think Marshall would be better anyway since Marmol likes to walk and hit people and that doesn’t seem to have improved substantially.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Quickie bullets from MLBTR suggest that the Cubs have no chance at the big three GMs in the AL East:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/09/front-office-notes-beane-cubs-epstein-friedman.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Quickie bullets from MLBTR suggest that the Cubs have no chance at the big three GMs in the AL East:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/09/front-office-notes-beane-cubs-epstein-friedman.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed%5B/quote%5D
Meh. Rosenthal’s proof that the three are locked up is pretty weak.
Does anyone know if MLB exec contracts are guaranteed like the players’ are? Or is it more like the NFL where you can sign a contract and then get cut and be out the remainder of the deal. I would assume the latter, which makes the extension of Oneri even less consequential.
26.2cubfanQuote Reply
I take the Oneri re-signing as just a business move. They like the guy and reasonably confident whoever they would hire would also like him, so they extend him to keep another team from sniping him. If the new GM doesn’t want him, you don’t lose anything. It’s better to have and not need then to not have and need, or some such bullshit.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]ACT, I feel more confiedent in Sean Marshall too and there’s a reason for it: he’s better than Marmol.[/quote]That smooth inning he worked in the 8th really makes me yearn for the days of 2-inning saves. I blame Tony LaRussa for the current state of affairs. Damn him.
ACTQuote Reply
Of Marm’s 4 HR allowed, 2 were 3-run HR’s 2 were grand slams.
ACTQuote Reply
Methunk Soriano had a pretty good day for a guy who’s probably going to be cut. No pressure.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=26.2cubfan]Meh. Rosenthal’s proof that the three are locked up is pretty weak.
Does anyone know if MLB exec contracts are guaranteed like the players’ are? Or is it more like the NFL where you can sign a contract and then get cut and be out the remainder of the deal. I would assume the latter, which makes the extension of Oneri even less consequential.[/quote]
Agreed regarding Rosenthal. Perhaps he’s right and he probably is with Theo (Red Sox not likely to grant Cubs permission to talk to him), but suggesting the other two are probalby returning is premature at the best. Of course all signs are going to indicate they return at this point. The Yankees are headed to the postseason so Cashman will focus on the Yankees first, foremost and probably the only focus he’ll have between now and November. If Friedman is so loyal that he sticks around the Rays then someone has to question how good he really is. The good ones typically want to be in the largest markets and if Friedman doesn’t even think he belongs in that echelon, he probably doesn’t belong.
mb21Quote Reply
Lincecum is pretty good at striking out people.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Lincecum is pretty good at striking out people.[/quote]You know who else was good at striking out people? Nolan Ryan. And yet, how many Cy Youngs does he have on his mantle? Zero.
Q.E.D.
binkyQuote Reply
Well, Lincecum has the strikeouts without the Marmolesque control.
ACTQuote Reply
Tim just gave up a run. That means the Giants will lose.
ACTQuote Reply
I like that the D’Backs-Giants game is the free game of the night.
Lincecum just allowed a run. What a bum.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Tim just gave up a run. That means the Giants will lose.[/quote][quote name=Rice Cube]I like that the D’Backs-Giants game is the free game of the night.
Lincecum just allowed a run. What a bum.[/quote]
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I like that the D’Backs-Giants game is the free game of the night.[/quote]Yeah, they usually show boring games. This game actually matters in the standings and has an excellent pitching matchup.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Yeah, they usually show boring games. This game actually matters in the standings and has an excellent pitching matchup.[/quote]I understand how the Giants won their division last year, but how the hell did they beat the other teams? I guess Huff was doing a lot better last year.
binkyQuote Reply
Cool, the Brian Stow family got to do the first pitch and sit with Barry Bonds today in SF. That’s a really nice gesture.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I understand how the Giants won their division last year, but how the hell did they beat the other teams? I guess Huff was doing a lot better last year.[/quote]
Very very good variance.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Also, Buster Posey. The Giants’ offense was actually decent last year, when you take park factors into account.
ACTQuote Reply
Last year, the Giants’ wRC+ was 93, which is average for NL teams (100 is average for position players only).
ACTQuote Reply
This year, it’s… 78.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]This year, it’s… 78.[/quote]
I forgot, is that better or worse than the Cubs?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I forgot about Posey. That was a huge blow to the team. It took them too long to get a Beltran, not that they had much choice.
binkyQuote Reply
Way, way worse.
ACTQuote Reply
Wow. Panda hit it like an inch foul.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Wow. Panda hit it like an inch foul.[/quote]That was veerrrrrry close.
binkyQuote Reply
This umpiring crew hates Ian Kennedy.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Josh, saw your Q re: contracts for team employees…I think for the most part higher-ups like GMs and field managers have guaranteed contracts, but I have no idea about scouting directors and player development coordinators, I imagine they are not as guaranteed. For example, I think if they fired Quade after this year he still gets his salary for next year. I think it’d be silly to guarantee a contract for a more subordinate position unless they’re indispensable.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Way, way worse.[/quote]Having 2-3 really good pitchers can compensate for a lot of mediocre offense.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Josh, saw your Q re: contracts for team employees…I think for the most part higher-ups like GMs and field managers have guaranteed contracts, but I have no idea about scouting directors and player development coordinators, I imagine they are not as guaranteed. For example, I think if they fired Quade after this year he still gets his salary for next year. I think it’d be silly to guarantee a contract for a more subordinate position unless they’re indispensable.[/quote]My point was just that either way, I think the Oneira resigning was just a way of preventing the guy from being sniped. Obviously the org likes him (whatever it is he does), so they want to make sure they have the option of keeping him. Like MB said, if the new GM doesn’t want him in that role, he can probably reassign or restructure. I just don’t see it as a particular sign of anything.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]My point was just that either way, I think the Oneira resigning was just a way of preventing the guy from being sniped. Obviously the org likes him (whatever it is he does), so they want to make sure they have the option of keeping him. Like MB said, if the new GM doesn’t want him in that role, he can probably reassign or restructure. I just don’t see it as a particular sign of anything.[/quote]
Nah, I think like Aisley said, he’s not going to get paid enough for it to matter if he’s fired anyway. The only thing that was weird about it was that they did it before the new GM was installed, but I think you made a good point re: sniping.
Tim Lincecum is hittable.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Having 2-3 really good pitchers can compensate for a lot of mediocre offense.[/quote]The Giants have 4 good starters, though Vogelsong has out-performed his periferals. Lincecum, Cain, and Bumgarner are all excellent.
ACTQuote Reply
Cain is a sabermetrician’s conundrum (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
This year his ERA roughly equals his FIP, at least.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]The Giants have 4 good starters, though Vogelsong has out-performed his periferals. Lincecum, Cain, and Bumgarner are all excellent.[/quote]Forgot about Vogelsong.
binkyQuote Reply
Cubs —-> eliminated from NL Central race
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Cubs —-> eliminated from NL Central race[/quote]Well, at least there’s still the wild-card race.
ACTQuote Reply
I would presume that any contract is guaranteed unless you know otherwise. Say you sign a nanny for 2 years for some reason and 3 weeks in you decide you don’t want him. Assuming he’s done nothing to violate the terms of the contract, you would be obligated to pay the remainder. That would be true unless you came up with a non-guaranteed contract. So unless we have reason to believe these guys sign non-guaranteed contracts then we have to assume it’s guaranteed. Considering everyone else in baseball (players, coaches, managers, GMs, assistant GMs and so on) sign guaranteed contracts, I’m not sure there’s any reason to think otherwise.
It’s just not much money and it is for a guy who is highly regarded in the game. I don’t much care what the people on Twitter or on cubs.com think.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Well, at least there’s still the wild-card race.[/quote]Tomorrow’s game is huge.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I would presume that any contract is guaranteed unless you know otherwise. Say you sign a nanny for 2 years for some reason and 3 weeks in you decide you don’t want him. Assuming he’s done nothing to violate the terms of the contract, you would be obligated to pay the remainder. That would be true unless you came up with a non-guaranteed contract. So unless we have reason to believe these guys sign non-guaranteed contracts then we have to assume it’s guaranteed. Considering everyone else in baseball (players, coaches, managers, GMs, assistant GMs and so on) sign guaranteed contracts, I’m not sure there’s any reason to think otherwise.
It’s just not much money and it is for a guy who is highly regarded in the game. I don’t much care what the people on Twitter or on cubs.com think.[/quote]Usually, you write in some kind of out clause, or something. With notice and a decent severance package, you can get out of a contract for less than the grand total.
binkyQuote Reply
If WGC is around, Oyamel —–> epic win.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Tomorrow’s game is huge.[/quote]The Cubs Wild Card elimination number is 2.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Tomorrow’s game is huge.[/quote][quote name=josh]The Cubs Wild Card elimination number is 2.[/quote]
HOPE!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I guess there’s one thing Stewart does better than Posey. He has a killer arm.
binkyQuote Reply
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]
[/quote]I’ve noticed more and more that broadcasters are starting to catch onto the fact that Wins/Losses for a pitcher is a useless stat. I wonder if there’s anyway to offer a weighted win/loss record by FIP, for people who are too used to W/L to give up that language, like a Weighted Wins record or something. Quality wins, maybe.
binkyQuote Reply
Lincy will be 12-12 after the Giants lose this.
ACTQuote Reply
The solution is for the Giants pitchers to learn how to hit home runs more often.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
(dying laughing) @ TCU
BerseliusQuote Reply
Even bigger (dying laughing) @ Notre Dame
BerseliusQuote Reply
I was going to ask if there was any way Panda could be gotten from the Giants, but they’re only paying him $0.5M for fWAR 3.8, so that’s probably a no. Though, he’s been up and down the last three years.
binkyQuote Reply
Would the farm director (isn’t that what Fleita is?) really make more than the MLB manager? I doubt it. I bet his annual salary is in the $200K – 300K range.
Also, why is Fleita so highly regarded when the Cubs’ minor league system is so lowly regarded?
Suburban kid 22Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]Would the farm director (isn’t that what Fleita is?) really make more than the MLB manager? I doubt it. I bet his annual salary is in the $200K – 300K range.
Also, why is Fleita so highly regarded when the Cubs’ minor league system is so lowly regarded?[/quote]This.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Also, I doubt that economist guy they hired is such a big deal. I think it’s false what Levine just said, that he signs off on all spending in every department.
I bet he’s an adviser and hopefully he’s doing research and analysis on the ROI of spending on the draft, free agents, international players, ballpark improvements, etc. And then making smart recommendations.
But he’s not in there approving fucking salaries and budgets with a title of “consultant”.
Suburban kid 22Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]Would the farm director (isn’t that what Fleita is?) really make more than the MLB manager? I doubt it. I bet his annual salary is in the $200K – 300K range.
Also, why is Fleita so highly regarded when the Cubs’ minor league system is so lowly regarded?[/quote]I agree that Fleita probably makes much less than $1 million.
When Fleita began working for the Cubs they had no scouts in Latin America. They never visited the region. Fleita’s initial job was to basically scout the southeastern US and he went to management and begged that he be able to sign some scouts and send them to Latin America. As much as I mock the Cubs scouting places without talent, they are there, and in Latin America, because of Fleita. He opened up a pipeline of talent to this organization that did not exist before him and probably would not have existed for several years without him. They have academies around the world in large part due to him.
For what it’s worth, Fleita was given a promotion after the 2007 or 2008 season and is no longer the Farm Director. He’s the Vice President of Player Personnel.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]Also, I doubt that economist guy they hired is such a big deal. I think it’s false what Levine just said, that he signs off on all spending in every department.
I bet he’s an adviser and hopefully he’s doing research and analysis on the ROI of spending on the draft, free agents, international players, ballpark improvements, etc. And then making smart recommendations.
But he’s not in there approving fucking salaries and budgets with a title of “consultant”.[/quote]
Agreed. He’s the equivalent of a sabermetrician who is on board to make recommendations. This guy will do the same, but in a different field.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I agree that Fleita probably makes much less than $1 million.
When Fleita began working for the Cubs they had no scouts in Latin America. They never visited the region. Fleita’s initial job was to basically scout the southeastern US and he went to management and begged that he be able to sign some scouts and send them to Latin America. As much as I mock the Cubs scouting places without talent, they are there, and in Latin America, because of Fleita. He opened up a pipeline of talent to this organization that did not exist before him and probably would not have existed for several years without him. They have academies around the world in large part due to him.
For what it’s worth, Fleita was given a promotion after the 2007 or 2008 season and is no longer the Farm Director. He’s the Vice President of Player Personnel.[/quote]
Sounds like he’s good at building organizations — are the Tigers or other clubs in need of that skill set?
What’s the difference between farm director and VP of Player Personnel? Is he actually doing a different job now, or did he get a fancier title because he’s been there a long time?
Suburban kid 22Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]Sounds like he’s good at building organizations — are the Tigers or other clubs in need of that skill set?
What’s the difference between farm director and VP of Player Personnel? Is he actually doing a different job now, or did he get a fancier title because he’s been there a long time?[/quote]Probably just a title change and maybe a few added responsibilities.
mb21Quote Reply
I hope everybody’s geared up for the game today as the Cubs go for the “Jesus Chris I hope we don’t get swept by the Pirates again”!
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Probably just a title change and maybe a few added responsibilities.[/quote]Sounds more managerial. Less travel and more hiring and managing the scouts and other people in the field.
binkyQuote Reply
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Wedgie-Foul-ball-sticks-in-mask-of-Mariners-cat?urn=mlb-wp18471
I guess protective bars closer in or even a central vertical bracing bar would mess with the catcher’s depth perception, but this kind of thing could potentially be dangerous.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]Would the farm director (isn’t that what Fleita is?) really make more than the MLB manager? I doubt it. I bet his annual salary is in the $200K – 300K range.
Also, why is Fleita so highly regarded when the Cubs’ minor league system is so lowly regarded?[/quote]
I guesstimated high to prove the point that it isn’t a big deal that they gave him a 4 year extension. If he’s making in the $200-$300K range than it is even less of a big deal if he was fired the instant a new GM steps in. They probably spend that much each year on baseballs.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Yeah, $4-6 million is the absolute max they’re spending. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a 4-year deal for about $1 to $1.5 million.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, $4-6 million is the absolute max they’re spending. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was a 4-year deal for about $1 to $1.5 million.[/quote]
And a no trade clause.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]Sounds like he’s good at building organizations — are the Tigers or other clubs in need of that skill set?
What’s the difference between farm director and VP of Player Personnel? Is he actually doing a different job now, or did he get a fancier title because he’s been there a long time?[/quote]
Stop asking questions that a beat writer should ask. They have shit to do. Like find out how much Carlos Silva was paid and trying to find a new target they want run out of town.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Stop asking questions that a beat writer should ask. They have shit to do. Like find out how much Carlos Silva was paid and trying to find a new target they want run out of town.[/quote](dying laughing) beat reporters probably don’t think too much of us. Then again, we don’t think much of them so we’re good.
mb21Quote Reply
To avoid the sweep the Cubs are going with this lineup:
SS Castro
RF Campana
3B Ramy
1B Pena
LF LaHair
CF Byrd
2B Barney
C Hill
P Wells
(dying laughing)
The pirates are going to run on that outfield all. day. long.
Aisle424Quote Reply
That’s one soft-hitting lineup.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]That’s one soft-hitting lineup.[/quote]
Didn’t you see LaHair in the middle of it? LaHair is LaBOMB!!
Aisle424Quote Reply
Is that lineup better than the Giants every day lineup?
mb21Quote Reply
Well, Eli Whiteside is slightly better than Hill. Huff is worse than Pena. Keppinger > Barney. Giants shortstops are collectively terrible. Aramis and Pablo are pretty close when you take baserunning into consideration. Beltran is better than Cubs rightfielders. Torres is worse than Byrd. I’m not sure how good LaHair is, but the Giants LF (Burrell/Ross) is just OK at offense.
ACTQuote Reply
So, that’s 3 clear wins for the Cubs, 3 for the Giants, 2 are unknown/too close to call.
ACTQuote Reply
I was actually joking, but that’s pretty funny now that I think about it.
mb21Quote Reply
The gap between Castro and whoever the Giants’ shortstops is ginormous, though, so I’d give a slight edge to today’s Cubs lineup.
ACTQuote Reply
Then again, the gap between Beltran and Campana is also huge, so I’ll call this a draw.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]The gap between Castro and
whoeverthe Giants’ shortstops is ginormous, though, so I’d give a slight edge to today’s Cubs lineup.[/quote]Ugh. I started saying one thing, then tried to say another.ACTQuote Reply
ACT, you are allowed to edit your posts here. Which is why the blog isn’t 100% discredited yet. (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Unless you’re currently on a mobile device, in which case you’re F’ed.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Well, Eli Whiteside is slightly better than Hill. Huff is worse than Pena. Keppinger > Barney. Giants shortstops are collectively terrible. Aramis and Pablo are pretty close when you take baserunning into consideration. Beltran is better than Cubs rightfielders. Torres is worse than Byrd. I’m not sure how good LaHair is, but the Giants LF (Burrell/Ross) is just OK at offense.[/quote]Uh you forgot Mark DeRosa. DeRo >>> All Current Cubs
Cubs fan’d
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Uh you forgot Mark DeRosa. DeRo >>> All Current Cubs
Cubs fan’d[/quote]
Correct.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]ACT, you are allowed to edit your posts here. Which is why the blog isn’t 100% discredited yet. (dying laughing)[/quote]I need to sign up for an account to do that, though.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I need to sign up for an account to do that, though.[/quote]
That would seem to be an issue.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
The money to extend Fleita is inconsequential and really shouldn’t be a factor in whether or not it’s looked at as a good idea. Personally, I don’t understand an org that builds from the bottom up instead of the top down. Ricketts said when he fired Hendry that he would let the GM decide if he wanted to keep Wilken and Fleita. If so then he already has his GM ready to come on board and he approved this deal with him or Ricketts is basically telling whoever wants the job that he expects them to keep Fleita. We have no reason to believe Fleita is some hot commodity that had to be locked up but I suppose it’s possible. I would think that most top GM candidates would have their own team of guys that they would want to work with. I’m sorry but I don’t see this move as being consistent with what Ricketts said when he fired Hendry or constructing an organization under the guidance of someone that can build a great organization. Ricketts has admitted he doesn’t know how to run baseball operations but here he is doing just that. This should have been the call of the new GM.
melissaQuote Reply
I’m not going to cut Ricketts any slack here just because I liked what they did in the draft. I want to see consistently good moves made by this org and as of right now, this doesn’t seem like one to me.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I need to sign up for an account to do that, though.[/quote]it’s painless.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m not going to cut Ricketts any slack here just because I liked what they did in the draft. I want to see consistently good moves made by this org and as of right now, this doesn’t seem like one to me.[/quote]
I have to admit that I don’t know what this move entails until the Cubs actually speak up about it or until we know who the new GM is, so I’m taking a wait and see approach.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
The news that Brett Jackson will not be called up (not surprising to me) has caused a disturbance in the Force.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m not going to cut Ricketts any slack here just because I liked what they did in the draft. I want to see consistently good moves made by this org and as of right now, this doesn’t seem like one to me.[/quote]Melissa, do you have any idea what Fleita does or how good he is at his job? I’ve mentioned this with regards to Kenney, but before you can form an opinion about whether it’s a good decision or not you have to know those two things. We have a pretty good idea what Fleita does and we also know he’s well respected in the business.
You don’t have to cut Ricketts any slack at all for this hiring. It means 1 of 3 things:
1. Ricketts has narrowed his search for GM and knows whoever is in that group wants Fleita
B. He’s learned that Fleita is really good at his job through various discussions with numerous people and that a new GM would very likely want to retain him
Three: This is something that is the equivalent to a severance package in case the new GM does not want him.
I guess fail to see the issue. Obviously there isn’t with the first two, but if it’s the third one, then it’s nothing more than a bonus, which bosses frequently give employees. I don’t have a problem with the Cubs rewarding someone has spent as many years in the organization as he has. If this was any other business and the owner was rewarding an employee like that (if that’s the reason) we’d have an entirely different opinion.
As for building from the ground up, that means building from within the system and creating a strong farm system. I also don’t know what the issue with that is.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]The news that Brett Jackson will not be called up (not surprising to me) has caused a disturbance in the Force.[/quote]As if the only time we can get to see Brett Jackson is September 2011. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
It’s also worth noting that there is a zero percent chance that a new GM is going to come in and fire every single employee. Yes, the manager will be gone and probably all of the coaches. Some of the assistant GMs will be gone or demoted and he’ll likely create additional jobs for his own people. But there is no way that a new GM is going to come in and fire every single person. The new GM will probably know less about the Cubs minor league system than we do when he takes the job. He will need people familiar with the system to help him. To me, signing Fleita was something of a no-brainer. Nobody knows the minor league system better than he does. Nobody has had more impact in the Cubs global expansion than he has. It’s highly unlikely any GM would have fired him. Maybe they create a position on top of him, but he wasn’t going anywhere to begin with.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Melissa, do you have any idea what Fleita does or how good he is at his job?
.[/quote]
I can make my assumptions just like you have. He’s certainly not regarded as the best in the business nor does the talent in the Cubs org reflect that. Not saying he’s the worst either.
[quote name=mb21]
1. Ricketts has narrowed his search for GM and knows whoever is in that group wants Fleita .[/quote]
To me this is the only reason to extend Fleita’s contract. Ricketts is not the “baseball” guy which is why his new GM should be making the decisions on baseball ops. I don’t expect the new GM to fire everyone either but this is a very high level position that would answer directly to the GM. Would people think it would make any sense to extend a manager right now? That’s the same reason it doesn’t make sense to extend Fleita, to me. He answers directly to the GM and he holds a position of importance in the org.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
As for building from the ground up, that means building from within the system and creating a strong farm system. I also don’t know what the issue with that is.[/quote]
I’m saying that you hire from the top down not the middle up. Ricketts himself even said the new GM would decide if Wilken and Fleita stay indicating he thinks the hires should be made from the top down within the baseball org. This move contradicts what he himself said. Building the talent within the system is certainly a case where you start with a strong farm system, ground up. but the baseball operations aren’t built by securing the people under the GM before you hire a GM.
melissaQuote Reply
Derrek Lee continues to punish his former team.
ACTQuote Reply
That was a different kind of TOOTBLAN…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
LaHair is a bum! Release him and call up the young guys.
Fire Quade NOW!
Cub FanQuote Reply
I have no idea what the specifics of Fleita’s job is/was, but I think the state of the farm system (and org philosophy in the minors in general, especially wrt OBP) blows, so I’d rather they went in another direction. I think it’s fair to pin part of the blame on him for that. Though I think he does a decent job at scouting in Latin America.
BerseliusQuote Reply
So much for Randy Wells ————-> back? (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Randy Wells ————-> back to sucking[/quote]
Correct.
Or false, depending on whether Wells gets the last out (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
2 IP, 52 pitches. Awesome.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]2 IP, 52 pitches. Awesome.[/quote](dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
The Cubs are…walking.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Time for a Koyie Hill WAG-to-DP Special
BerseliusQuote Reply
Barney and Byrd, no less. What’s next, a Koyie Hill homer?
ACTQuote Reply
Order hath returned to the universe.
ACTQuote Reply
Keith Moreland suggests a 1-out bunt with a RISP. Ugh.
ACTQuote Reply
And Wells is showing bunt! Jesus.
ACTQuote Reply
A former catcher, no less!
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I have no idea what the specifics of Fleita’s job is/was, but I think the state of the farm system (and org philosophy in the minors in general, especially wrt OBP) blows, so I’d rather they went in another direction. I think it’s fair to pin part of the blame on him for that. Though I think he does a decent job at scouting in Latin America.[/quote]
I agree. Fleita nor anyone else in this org is someone you have to extend in order not to lose them. What about the current state of the minors or MLB club would indicate that you have to keep any of these guys? Ricketts wants a GM to run his baseball ops he needs to hire one and let him make these decisions. I also don’t believe Ricketts has any intention of firing someone he just extended, doesn’t seem like their approach.
melissaQuote Reply
(dying laughing) @ 3-0 green light on a pitcher who has no control.
But being that Tony Campana was up next, might as well take your hack.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube](dying laughing) @ 3-0 green light on a pitcher who has no control.
[/quote]With runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs? Absolutely give the green light. A walk is worth much, much less than a hit here.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]With runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs? Absolutely give the green light. A walk is worth much, much less than a hit here.[/quote]
Okiedoke. I think it is good to note that the next batter was likely to be an auto-out anyway.
Derrek Lee —> anti-Cub
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Plus, the whole “no control” thing is just based on a couple of bad plate appearances. It’s not like Castro was facing Marmol or something (even if he were, I’d still green light him, though).
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I have no idea what the specifics of Fleita’s job is/was, but I think the state of the farm system (and org philosophy in the minors in general, especially wrt OBP) blows, so I’d rather they went in another direction. I think it’s fair to pin part of the blame on him for that. Though I think he does a decent job at scouting in Latin America.[/quote]When you spend less than average on ameteur talent, what do you expect? A couple years after Fleita took over the Cubs had the best farm system in baseball for a few years. They started contending and traded prospects for veterans AND spent less money. Despite that and my objections to this farm system, Baseball America had them ranked 8th before trading Garza. So while the team traded prospects for several years, spent next to nothing, the Cubs had built a top 10 farm system.
As for OBP, people are making too much an issue of that (me too). The Cubs minor league OBP this year was .339. The fantastic Rays organization was .332. Cubs were .337 a year ago and the Rays were .336. Red Sox had an OBP of .335 this year and last. Yankees .334 this year and .335 a year ago. The A’s were .343 this year and last.
The issue with OBP is just selective memory (Josh Vitters, Tyler Colvin, DJ LeMahieu, etc). I-Cubs have a .354 OBP and league average is .348. The Smokies have a .353 OBP and the Southern League average is .337. .319 for the D-Cubs (.324 average). .334 for the Chiefs and .333 league average. 2 of the 4 full-season leagues are well above average, one is well below average and the other is just a bit above average. Boise Hawks well below average in short-season ball and the AZL Cubs well above average. DSL Cubs 1 way above average. Among the 4 teams with 2 DSL teams, Cubs ranked 3rd.
I think Fleita has earned the reputation from what I can tell.
mb21Quote Reply
Campana on base. He should be on third base in about two pitches.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I can’t remember now that I closed the window, but I think the AZL Cubs were well below average (not above as I accidentally wrote).
mb21Quote Reply
Here’s a quick Hall of Famer comparison for Bryan LaHair: both times they’ve showed closeups of him in the box he’s reminded me of Chipper Jones. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Here’s a quick Hall of Famer comparison for Bryan LaHair: both times they’ve showed closeups of him in the box he’s reminded me of Chipper Jones. (dying laughing)[/quote]
[quote name=Veena Sud]Chipper Jones is happy to be in the same conversation[/quote]
.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Byrd just provided more ammunition for all the Byrd-haters on BCB.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Here’s a quick Hall of Famer comparison for Bryan LaHair: both times they’ve showed closeups of him in the box he’s reminded me of Chipper Jones. (dying laughing)[/quote]
(dying laughing) Let’s see what happens.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]When you spend less than average on ameteur talent, what do you expect? A couple years after Fleita took over the Cubs had the best farm system in baseball for a few years. They started contending and traded prospects for veterans AND spent less money. Despite that and my objections to this farm system, Baseball America had them ranked 8th before trading Garza. So while the team traded prospects for several years, spent next to nothing, the Cubs had built a top 10 farm system.
As for OBP, people are making too much an issue of that (me too). The Cubs minor league OBP this year was .339. The fantastic Rays organization was .332. Cubs were .337 a year ago and the Rays were .336. Red Sox had an OBP of .335 this year and last. Yankees .334 this year and .335 a year ago. The A’s were .343 this year and last.
The issue with OBP is just selective memory (Josh Vitters, Tyler Colvin, DJ LeMahieu, etc). I-Cubs have a .354 OBP and league average is .348. The Smokies have a .353 OBP and the Southern League average is .337. .319 for the D-Cubs (.324 average). .334 for the Chiefs and .333 league average. 2 of the 4 full-season leagues are well above average, one is well below average and the other is just a bit above average. Boise Hawks well below average in short-season ball and the AZL Cubs well above average. DSL Cubs 1 way above average. Among the 4 teams with 2 DSL teams, Cubs ranked 3rd.
I think Fleita has earned the reputation from what I can tell.[/quote]
Then why do the MLB Cubs suck so much at getting on base (dying laughing). I’d like it if the guys who make it to the majors brought that skill with them.
I realize that the players in the system aren’t necessarily his choice but I don’t think we can just throw up our hands and say “Hey, whatddya gonna do?”
BerseliusQuote Reply
i think I was looking at pitchers or something.
ICubs .345, .359 league average
Smokies .341, .339 average
DCubs: .328, .331 average
Chiefs: .319, .323 average
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]
I realize that the players in the system aren’t necessarily his choice but I don’t think we can just throw up our hands and say “Let’s See What Happens.”[/quote]
.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Then why do the MLB Cubs suck so much at getting on base (dying laughing). I’d like it if the guys who make it to the majors brought that skill with them.
I realize that the players in the system aren’t necessarily his choice but I don’t think we can just throw up our hands and say “Hey, whatddya gonna do?”[/quote]Because the major league team doesn’t value OBP. There’s no glaring issue in the minor leagues.
They did recently develop Soto who is one of the best at getting on base in even numbered years.
I’m not saying we should throw up our hands. I’m saying that I’m going to trust the general consensus on him far more than I do any internet commenter. It’s difficult for me to believe that anybody that posts here has a fraction of the ability that he has and since we’re not completely familiar with his work the opinions of those familiar with it matters more. I’m going to trust that since most sources seemed confident Fleita wasn’t going anywhere that he’s pretty good at his job. As much as I dislike Tim Wilken’s drafts, the same applies to him too. There’s little chance he’s going anywhere from what I’ve read and that fact alone tells me I’ve been full of shit.
mb21Quote Reply
That was actually really good baserunning by Koyie Hill.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Between Peoria, Daytona, Tennesse and Iowa the Cubs were -23 runs above average batting and about -15 pitching. The I-Cubs were -27 batting and -47 pitching. It’s difficult to have one team in a farm system bring the entire system down, but the I-Cubs managed to do just that.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
They did recently develop Soto who is one of the best at getting on base in even numbered years.
[/quote]Now that’s an interesting skill.
ACTQuote Reply
-33 of that at Iowa is in two players; Matt Camp and Alberto Cabrera. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Now that’s an interesting skill.[/quote]It’s what I call Brett Saberhagen Disease. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saberbr01.shtml#pitching_value::none
mb21Quote Reply
I’d have an easier time believing this if it weren’t coming from the Chicago media/org. It makes me think of some quote I heard a while ago “All of the (group X) are wonderful people. They told me so themselves”
BerseliusQuote Reply
For all we know Fleita was fired 2 years ago (dying laughing)
/Chicago media
BerseliusQuote Reply
I like the part where McCutchen didn’t know he had drawn a walk.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21] It’s difficult for me to believe that anybody that posts here has a fraction of the ability that he has and since we’re not completely familiar with his work the opinions of those familiar with it matters more. I’m going to trust that since most sources seemed confident Fleita wasn’t going anywhere that he’s pretty good at his job. As much as I dislike Tim Wilken’s drafts, the same applies to him too. .[/quote]
The only opinion on Fleita or anyone in this org that matters to me is that of the new GM.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s what I call Brett Saberhagen Disease. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/saberbr01.shtml#pitching_value::none[/quote]Steve Trachsel was the same way. Also, Roy Campanella.
ACTQuote Reply
Relevant to this article:
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/6336/ricketts-made-risky-move-with-fleita-extension
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Check this out:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hamilt002bil
Notice anything potentially awesome?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I’d have an easier time believing this if it weren’t coming from the Chicago media/org. It makes me think of some quote I heard a while ago “All of the (group X) are wonderful people. They told me so themselves”[/quote]I think you know me well enough to know that 1) I don’t read shit that those guys write and 2) I couldn’t care less what they said. I’m saying this from the last 6 or 8 years that I’ve been reading Baseball America online, their prospects handbooks and their chats. I have no clue what the Chicago media is saying and really don’t care.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Relevant to this article:
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/6336/ricketts-made-risky-move-with-fleita-extension%5B/quote%5D
interesting quote:
Scouting with your gut? Hope that’s not how they evaluate whether or not to sign a pick.
I know everyone works for Ricketts in the org but Fleita obviously has Ricketts endorsement no matter what the new GM may think. That could cause problems. It may prevent a top candidate from accepting the job or it may cause power struggles in the future if Fleita believes he answers to Ricketts and not his GM.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]The only opinion on Fleita or anyone in this org that matters to me is that of the new GM.[/quote]So if they hire Ned Colletti you still feel that way?
[quote name=Rice Cube]Relevant to this article:
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/6336/ricketts-made-risky-move-with-fleita-extension%5B/quote%5D
I think this is being overlooked:
You have to keep someone around who is familiar with the minor league systme and it may as well be the guy who got the Cubs foot in the global ameteur market.
mb21Quote Reply
These guys are just better off never saying anything (same goes for the owner and GM) because if we can criticize a scout for talking about using his gut, then we’re going to criticize the best stats guy for using a calculator.
mb21Quote Reply
Aramis Ramirez —> stolen base
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]These guys are just better off never saying anything (same goes for the owner and GM) because if we can criticize a scout for talking about using his gut, then we’re going to criticize the best stats guy for using a calculator.[/quote]
I’m not sure what he means by “gut” feeling, hopefully it means what the scout thinks a player can become based upon what he has observed. It could purely be a semantic thing on his part. Just as I don’t want players evaluated by a calculator (didn’t know they were) I don’t like the idea of a gut feeling being the basis for signing a guy. If gut feeling is short-hand for observation and analysis then great. Fleita is not a newbie to the media, I’ve heard him interviewed several times and I think it’s fair to remark upon his comments.
melissaQuote Reply
Cubs E# —-> 1
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m not sure what he means by “gut” feeling, hopefully it means what the scout thinks a player can become based upon what he has observed. It could purely be a semantic thing on his part. Just as I don’t want players evaluated by a calculator (didn’t know they were) I don’t like the idea of a gut feeling being the basis for signing a guy. If gut feeling is short-hand for observation and analysis then great. Fleita is not a newbie to the media, I’ve heard him interviewed several times and I think it’s fair to remark upon his comments.[/quote]Scouts use their guts a lot and they should. They’ve seen thousands of players and have a fairly good idea how players that young are going to age. They can picture a scrawny kid from the Dominican putting on some weight and adding a few inches and hitting 20 home runs in his prime. They can use their gut to assume that added weight will push him away from SS by the time he enters his prime. What you have is Starlin Castro.
I don’t want the scouts using statistics. I want the scouts reporting what they see, giving their analysis of the guy’s swing, his line drive stroke, his ability to field balls, the range, the footwork, the strength and so on. I want the statisticians to look at the stats and compare to similar players and suggest comparable players. I want people to combine the two to get an even bigger picture. What you have here is the Oakland A’s, Boston Red Sox and Tampa Bay Rays. You get a full picture of the player. You have an idea how someone expects them to develop, what areas are problems, how they can be fixed and what issues there may be in the future. You add in the stats and you get an even clearer picture. Sometimes the stats will completely disagree with the scouting data. Sometimes the stats will be right and sometimes the scouts will be right, but combining them is the best method.
mb21Quote Reply
It should also be pointed out that the Cubs hitters, since at least 2009, have been nearly a year younger than the average hitter. For example, the average age of the Boise hitters since 2009 has been 20.4, 20.7, and 20.6. League average for hitters in that league has been 21.3, 21.3 and 21.4. This obviously can’t be ignored when looking at league average OBP or slugging numbers. We’d expect the older hitters to be better. Even in the AZL the Cubs hitters are younger.
Baseball America has long said that the Cubs are one of the most aggressive systems and the age of the hitters in the low minors proves that.
I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not. I tend to think it’s irrelevant in terms of how a player develops, but as far as performance it’s very important.
mb21Quote Reply
Looking at the last 3 years in the Pacific Coast League (Iowa Cubs), Southern League (Tennessee Smokies), Florida State League (Daytona Cubs), Midwest League (Peoria Chiefs), Northwest League (Boise Hawks), and Arizona League (AZL Cubs), there have been 18 seasons since 2009. Only the 2009 I-Cubs hitters were older than the league average. The I-Cubs hitters are much closer to league average than the lower levels. Even at AA, Cubs hitters are about a year younger than the league average.
mb21Quote Reply
87 BB for Pena. Can he get 13 more before the end of the season?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Cubs stole 4 bases. Aramis stole his uncontested.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Check this out:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=hamilt002bil
Notice anything potentially awesome?[/quote]
Dude, can we get back to the fact that this kid in the Reds org has 100 stolen bases??? That in about 200 times on base, and 20 CS. He’s the second coming of Rickey Henderson!
26.2cubfanQuote Reply
Looks more like another Vince Coleman.
ACTQuote Reply
The making of a legend:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18828181
Rice CubeQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/cubs-likely-to-extend-tim-wilkens-contract.html
mb21Quote Reply