Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe wrote that the compensation talks between the Red Sox and Cubs were set to begin soon. Apparently Ben Cherington has already been told he will be the new GM so Theo is gone from the Sox one way or another as I expected. There’s no take back here.
While it’s been suggested here that the Red Sox be tough in holding out for a top player, the chances of extracting shortstop Starlin Castro or righty Matt Garza appear slim. The Cubs don’t exactly have a plethora of big prospects either, but they do have a few who might be of interest.
Their top prospect is Brett Jackson, a speedy lefthanded hitting center fielder who was a 20-20 guy in their system this year and not far from the big leagues. Matt Szczur, an A-ball outfielder and righthanded hitter, is also highly regarded. Third baseman Josh Vitters, a former top pick, hasn’t panned out, but is now playing some outfield in the Arizona Fall League. The Cubs’ top pitching prospect is righty Trey McNutt. Other pitchers they might part with are Jon Jackson or Alberto Cabrera.
Fire Brand of the American League talked a bit about possible players the Sox could get for Epstein. They mention Sean Marshall, Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt and Andrew Cashner as possibilities. I know we’ve heard that the Sox may want cash, but that would seem to be a relatively simple transaction that wouldn’t require a long discussion. As such, I think there’s more to it than that and they do want a player or two in return. I’ve said before that I think Brett Jackson or Trey McNutt are the most likely players moving to Boston and I remain convinced they are.
There is no chance Starlin Castro is changing uniforms. Based on other reports, by the Boston media of course, there does not appear to be much chance the Red Sox acquire a player at the MLB level. That eliminates Sean Marshall.
I left Andrew Cashner out of the “MLB level” there because he still has very little MLB experience. I believe the Cubs would not like to trade him, but I also believe they would not take him off the table. I think he’s unlikely, but I wouldn’t be too surprised if he was wearing a Red Sox uniform next year. That would be more than fine with me. Cashner began the season in the rotation last year, but after his first start he was put on the DL and missed most of the season. He was less than impressive in his debut season in 2010. While his numbers in the minor leagues in 2010 were impressive, it was only 9 starts and then he was moved to the bullpen and then to the big leagues.
His numbers weren’t bad before that, but they weren’t all that impressive either. He’s done little at the big league level to this point and is coming off of injury. If the cost to get Theo Epstein is Andrew Cashner, I’d be fine with that. I’d rather give them Cashner than McNutt.
I’ve already said why I think Brett Jackson fits so I won’t bore you with that again, but that’s who I expect to be heading to Boston.
Other candidates could be Matt Szczur, Welington Castillo, Steve Clevenger, Junior Lake, Josh Vitters and almost anyone else. Szczur was one of only two Cubs players ranked in a full seaosn league top 20 prospect list by Baseball America (Brett Jackson being the other). The Cubs did have several others in short-season leagues, but only the A’s had fewer top 20 league prospects than the Cubs.
Castillo was once a highly regarded prospect, but he took a hit before rebounding last year. He’s MLB ready and could probably be a decent starter or a good back-up. The same is true for Steve Clevenger. Junior Lake is a young SS with some potential. He hit well in High A before his promotion and then not so well after. He’s at least a year away from the big leagues.
Josh Vitters was the overall 3rd pick in the 2007 Draft. Baseball America had him ranked 43rd prior to 2008. He fell to 51st the next year and then into the 70s and was not ranked in the top 100 last year. He has some pop in his bat, probably can’t play 3rd base at the big league level and has played some 1st and is currently playing the outfield in the AFL.
Vitters turned only 22 at the end of August and is longtime sufferer of Getting On Base Disorder. If we could cure his disorder, you got yourself an all-star hitter. But he has unfortunately been diagnosed with the intractable GOBD. Truly a sad, sad story about a young man — a kid — fighting for his life, playing a sport he loves despite the crippling nature of the disorder. It’s so America.
I’d like to see the Cubs find a way to keep Brett Jackson. He could be instrumental in any quick turnaround for the Cubs. Trey McNutt was off to a great professional start, but has hit a road block in AA. There’s still plenty of reason to be optimistic though our expectations have surely lowered. I’d also like the Cubs to keep Szczur and Castillo. Szczur has been surprisingly good hitting .303/.350/.431 over a year and half in professional baseball. He was only 21 in 2011 and he actually showed some power last year by hitting 10 home runs. Castillo would either make a decent starter for this team or a very good backup to Geovany Soto. As for the others, I don’t much care.
Comments
(dying laughing)
http://occupyherbstreit.tumblr.com/
GBTSQuote Reply
I think the Rangers win rather big today. This series is over. Rangers/Cardinals World Series. Cardinals in 7.
mb21Quote Reply
I hate this disease and I hope the Cubs can one day eradicate it.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
It’s probably best to prepare yourself to see Brett Jackson go. Then whatever happens you’ll either be ready for or it will be a pleasant surprise.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I think the Rangers win rather big today. This series is over. Rangers/Cardinals World Series. Cardinals in 7.[/quote]I really hope the Brewers can mount a comeback, but the Tigers look to be donesville.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I hate this disease and I hope the Cubs can one day eradicate it.[/quote]
“Maybe it’s just society”
8volumesthickQuote Reply
We haven’t even once talked about Ryne Sandburg on this blog. Al would be so disappointed.
binkyQuote Reply
Apparently Theo has reached out to Josh Byrnes to join the Cubs. I’m really liking the new Cubs.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]We haven’t even once talked about Ryne Sandburg on this blog. Al would be so disappointed.[/quote]There are two games being played today. Can we please focus this Cubs blog on the 4 non-Cubs teams while I figure out how to make hiring Theo something I thought of long ago even though I had been trumpeting my sources about Billy Beane?
/Alvin’d
Aisle424Quote Reply
Imagine that. Verlander gets a strikeout and the guy still reaches base. Life is so unfair.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I can’t believe this is an AL playoff lineup the Tigers are putting out there. There’s lots of outs in it. Like 7
8volumesthickQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Apparently Theo has reached out to Josh Byrnes to join the Cubs. I’m really liking the new Cubs.[/quote]That’s NOT the guy in the Usual Suspects, right?
binkyQuote Reply
I almost think I would keep Cashner over McNutt if it came down to it. Just my humble opinion. I think he’ll be a better pitcher (if he stays in the rotation).
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]That’s NOT the guy in the Usual Suspects, right?[/quote]
Well, Byrnes was once part of a barbershop quartet in Skokie, IL
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Apparently Theo has reached out to Josh Byrnes to join the Cubs. I’m really liking the new Cubs.[/quote]
I like. Link?
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
So much for Avila running out of gas (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]That’s NOT the guy in the Usual Suspects, right?[/quote]Giancarlo Esposito is in that movie.
GBTSQuote Reply
Kyle Lohse is 61% to win over Wolf?
Aisle424Quote Reply
home field advantage, 424.
mb21Quote Reply
Well, HFA makes up about 5% of it. HFA is worth 5%. If the two were even pitchers and they had even lineups and equal defense it would be 55% Cardinals.
Cardinals have a better offense. Don’t know about the pitchers.
mb21Quote Reply
RR, I saw it in a tweet from Bleacher Nation.
mb21Quote Reply
https://twitter.com/#!/tomkrasovic/status/124273785267429377
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]home field advantage, 424.[/quote]I guess. They aren’t snapping up the tickets down there, though. There are 4 together in Section 141. Tickets available all over the place for tonight’s game.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]RR, I saw it in a tweet from Bleacher Nation.[/quote]
Thanks, I just found it.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
I’ll take the under on brett jackson.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I guess. They aren’t snapping up the tickets down there, though. There are 4 together in Section 141. Tickets available all over the place for tonight’s game.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I guess. They aren’t snapping up the tickets down there, though. There are 4 together in Section 141. Tickets available all over the place for tonight’s game.
[/quote]
fwiw, home field advantage is a really strange thing, and shows up consistently in every sport, even when there are almost no fans in attendance. the explanation is so elusive that phil birnbaum has taken a shine to an evolutionary hypothesis to explain it.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]If they’re expensive, considering unemployment and all that stuff, I am not surprised.[/quote]They’re about $200 each. There are 4 together in the upper deck for $86.
It’s the fucking NLCS. Shit, I want to go down there and say I had awesome fucking seats for an NLCS game.
Aisle424Quote Reply
And where the fuck are the Brewers fans? St. Louis is about a 6-7 hour drive from Milwaukee. Holy fuck, I have to go lie down. I just don’t get it at all.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]They’re about $200 each. There are 4 together in the upper deck for $86.
It’s the fucking NLCS. Shit, I want to go down there and say I had awesome fucking seats for an NLCS game.[/quote]If you leave now with a full tank of gas and don’t stop and break speed limits, you’ll get there in time for first pitch. It can be done!!!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]fwiw, home field advantage is a really strange thing, and shows up consistently in every sport, even when there are almost no fans in attendance. the explanation is so elusive that phil birnbaum has taken a shine to an evolutionary hypothesis to explain it.[/quote]The freakonomics podcast discussed this relative to soccer. The basic findings fo the study showed home field advantage to be mostly due to officials. Not sure how that meshes with Phil’s evolutionary hypothesis. FWIW, I’m not commenting on his work since I haven’t read it but I find a lot of evolutionary based reasoning to be post-hoc analysis and conjecture. Since he is a saber guy maybe he is looking at genetic algorithm approaches to weight coefficients. Now I’ll stop with my conjecture.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]The freakonomics podcast discussed this relative to soccer. The basic findings fo the study showed home field advantage to be mostly due to officials. Not sure how that meshes with Phil’s evolutionary hypothesis. FWIW, I’m not commenting on his work since I haven’t read it but I find a lot of evolutionary based reasoning to be post-hoc analysis and conjecture. Since he is a saber guy maybe he is looking at genetic algorithm approaches to weight coefficients. Now I’ll stop with my conjecture.[/quote]
right, i tend to be discount most evolutionary behavioral theory out of hand, for a number of reasons. i was just using phil’s position as an example of where the flummoxing data has led some good analysts. I may have listened to the freakonomics podcast, but don’t remember for sure. My guess is it is based on the scorecasting (?) book that came out recently, which attributed all of hfa to the officials. I find that to be vastly overstated, and phil has dissected it pretty well in a series of about 10 posts.
GWQuote Reply
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/13/report-rangers-prepared-to-throw-boatload-of-money-at-cc-sabathia-this-winter/
MishQuote Reply
I think there are a number of reasons MLB teams perform better at home. For one thing, teams tend to go after players that make sense in their ballpark. You can stash a Manny Ramirez in LF in Boston, but there’s no way you could do that at PETCO or PNC. The Rockies used a lot of groundball pitchers and taught all of them in the minors to throw it. The familiarity of the park is also important. Outfielders for the Cubs are more familiar with the brick wall and how close it is than other teams. You always see the Cubs play the wall more aggressively than other teams except when Jeromy Burnitz was playing CF for the Rockies.
Being home has to matter. Sleeping in your own bed has to be a factor. I rarely get a good night sleep away from home. That’s even if I stay in the same time zone. It’s even worse if I’m in a different time zone.
There are other factors, but I think those two are the biggest. I don’t think it has any reason to do with the number of fans, though there is some evidence that a tremendous difference in the number of fans can help.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I think there are a number of reasons MLB teams perform better at home. For one thing, teams tend to go after players that make sense in their ballpark. You can stash a Manny Ramirez in LF in Boston, but there’s no way you could do that at PETCO or PNC. The Rockies used a lot of groundball pitchers and taught all of them in the minors to throw it. The familiarity of the park is also important. Outfielders for the Cubs are more familiar with the brick wall and how close it is than other teams. You always see the Cubs play the wall more aggressively than other teams except when Jeromy Burnitz was playing CF for the Rockies.
Being home has to matter. Sleeping in your own bed has to be a factor. I rarely get a good night sleep away from home. That’s even if I stay in the same time zone. It’s even worse if I’m in a different time zone.
There are other factors, but I think those two are the biggest. I don’t think it has any reason to do with the number of fans, though there is some evidence that a tremendous difference in the number of fans can help.[/quote]
not to mention last bats
GWQuote Reply
I don’t buy it has to do with officials.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=GW]not to mention last bats[/quote](dying laughing) that’s probably the most important reason and I forgot to even mention it.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I think there are a number of reasons MLB teams perform better at home. For one thing, teams tend to go after players that make sense in their ballpark. You can stash a Manny Ramirez in LF in Boston, but there’s no way you could do that at PETCO or PNC. The Rockies used a lot of groundball pitchers and taught all of them in the minors to throw it. The familiarity of the park is also important. Outfielders for the Cubs are more familiar with the brick wall and how close it is than other teams. You always see the Cubs play the wall more aggressively than other teams except when Jeromy Burnitz was playing CF for the Rockies.
Being home has to matter. Sleeping in your own bed has to be a factor. I rarely get a good night sleep away from home. That’s even if I stay in the same time zone. It’s even worse if I’m in a different time zone.
There are other factors, but I think those two are the biggest. I don’t think it has any reason to do with the number of fans, though there is some evidence that a tremendous difference in the number of fans can help.[/quote]
You also have some strategic advantages in the late innings, i.e. knowing how many runs you need to play for and such in the bottom of the 9th.
MishQuote Reply
http://twitter.com/#!/LynchieWCVB/status/124594401958825984
GWQuote Reply
Bruce Levine is alive!
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7097913/sources-chicago-cubs-eye-players-theo-epstein-swap
GWQuote Reply
I just read (Levine I think) that the Red Sox had handed them a list of 3 names and the Cubs were talking it over with Fleita and Wilken. At that point I’d guess they’d send another list to the Sox and eventually agree on a player. If I’m the Sox the first list I’m sending the Cubs is Starlin Castro, Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt. If I’m the Cubs I then send a list of Tony Campana, Matt Camp, Chris Robinson. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
Or what GW just linked. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
Yeah, I thought the whole Fleita/Wilken thing was way overblown.
http://bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view/20111013optimism_for_cubs_should_top_levels_seen_on_the_first_day_of_spring_training
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I just read (Levine I think) that the Red Sox had handed them a list of 3 names and the Cubs were talking it over with Fleita and Wilken. At that point I’d guess they’d send another list to the Sox and eventually agree on a player. If I’m the Sox the first list I’m sending the Cubs is Starlin Castro, Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt. If I’m the Cubs I then send a list of Tony Campana, Matt Camp, Chris Robinson. (dying laughing)[/quote]
I suppose it’s too shady, legally, to have theo take a look at the list. Even sight unseen, I’d feel better about having his input to go along with bush, fleita, and wilken.
GWQuote Reply
By the way, there is a 0% chance that Andrew Friedman would have stuck around Tampa Bay had the same job been offered to him. That Rays fans thought there was no chance was wishful thinking. If you can get Theo that easily, there’s no doubt whatsoever that Friedman would have come along.
I’m guessing Ricketts list was something like this:
1. Theo Epstein
2. Theo Epstein
3. Theo Epstein
4. Theo Epstein
5. Re-evaluate and come up with another list.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]By the way, there is a 0% chance that Andrew Friedman would have stuck around Tampa Bay had the same job been offered to him. That Rays fans thought there was no chance was wishful thinking. If you can get Theo that easily, there’s no doubt whatsoever that Friedman would have come along.
I’m guessing Ricketts list was something like this:
1. Theo Epstein
2. Theo Epstein
3. Theo Epstein
4. Theo Epstein
5. Re-evaluate and come up with another list.[/quote]
agreed
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]I suppose it’s too shady, legally, to have theo take a look at the list. Even sight unseen, I’d feel better about having his input to go along with bush, fleita, and wilken.[/quote]I would think that Theo would have some input, but probably be rather limited. I think that for a couple reasons. First, he’s still technically employed by the Sox even though they have given his job to someone else. Second, he’s not as familiar with the Cubs system as those other guys are. I’d actually feel better with Theo not having much input on this decision. A month from now I’m confident he’ll have assembled a group that’s more competent than we currently have, but right now I want someone who is knowledgeable of the system to make this decision.
It’s not like the Cubs have traded any stars away over the last decade. I’d say this team has done pretty well at keeping the guys they have the most expectations for. Unless there’s someone I’m not thinking of, Dontrelle Willis and Ricky Nolasco have been the two best Cubs prospects traded away.
mb21Quote Reply
Don’t know if anyone read that last link I posted, but I loved this part:
Yankeeesque is exactly what I was thinking when news broke a couple nights ago.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Don’t know if anyone read that last link I posted, but I loved this part:
Yankeeesque is exactly what I was thinking when news broke a couple nights ago.[/quote]
I’m giddy over the idea of the Cubs being considered shrewd and Yankeeessque. Never thought I’d hear that.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Don’t know if anyone read that last link I posted, but I loved this part:
Yankeeesque is exactly what I was thinking when news broke a couple nights ago.[/quote]I think I just heard Alvin’s head explode from here (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
Yu Darvish translated to MLB based on other Japanese pitchers in baseball: http://www.rlyw.net/index.php/RLYW/comments/should_the_yankees_make_a_play_for_yu_darvish
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I think I just heard Alvin’s head explode from here (dying laughing)[/quote]That noise was from a drunken and drug addicted Terry Francona.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=GW]I’ll take the under on brett jackson.[/quote]I just read on a Sox blog how they’d owe Theo $7 million if this deal doesn’t get done so I agree with you. Who are you thinking?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I just read on a Sox blog how they’d owe Theo $7 million if this deal doesn’t get done so I agree with you. Who are you thinking?[/quote]I think that was a general statement. I’ll take the under on any minor leaguer.
BerseliusQuote Reply
This talk about the Red Sox having all the leverage in these negotiations is nonsense. I don’t know which team has or doesn’t have leverage, but Theo Epstein has none. The leverage the Cubs have is they can stick the Sox with $7 million to pay someone who won’t even be with the club. The cubs can move on.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I think that was a general statement. I’ll take the under on any minor leaguer.[/quote]I thought he meant someone not as good as Jackson.
mb21Quote Reply
Question of the Day: Are the Red Sox fatties?
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/2011/skinny_on_conditioning/
I will say that Beckett does look like he ate Carl Crawford’s talent.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Question of the Day: Are the Red Sox fatties?
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/2011/skinny_on_conditioning/
I will say that Beckett does look like he ate Carl Crawford’s talent.[/quote](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
http://deadspin.com/5849607/did-these-boston-people-and-inanimate-objects-pack-on-the-pounds-too-judge-for-yourself/gallery/1
GBTSQuote Reply
This is awesome.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Video-Cardinals-fan-shows-pride-with-sweet-pros?urn=mlb-wp23873
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Listening to this moron, John Dennis from WEEI to be exact, talk about how today’s negotiations between the Cubs and Sox did not go well today.
Let me say this guys seems like a douche, who also spent the first few seconds of the interview semi-trashing Theo.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I would think that Theo would have some input, but probably be rather limited. I think that for a couple reasons. First, he’s still technically employed by the Sox even though they have given his job to someone else. Second, he’s not as familiar with the Cubs system as those other guys are. I’d actually feel better with Theo not having much input on this decision. A month from now I’m confident he’ll have assembled a group that’s more competent than we currently have, but right now I want someone who is knowledgeable of the system to make this decision.
It’s not like the Cubs have traded any stars away over the last decade. I’d say this team has done pretty well at keeping the guys they have the most expectations for. Unless there’s someone I’m not thinking of, Dontrelle Willis and Ricky Nolasco have been the two best Cubs prospects traded away.[/quote]
the main advantage of using theo would be his sense for what henry would settle for. but, for the reasons you mentioned, almost certainly not legal.
GWQuote Reply
i just can’t see ricketts giving up anything of value from the minor league system, since he seems to have adopted it as a child now.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]i just can’t see ricketts giving up anything of value from the minor league system, since he seems to have adopted it as a child now.[/quote]I agree, but I think he also values the GM hire more, so it could go either way.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I agree, but I think he also values the GM hire more, so it could go either way.[/quote]
I think they might. They want Theo bad enough and are ready to commit 20 mil. That tells me they will do almost anything to get him.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]I think they might. They want Theo bad enough and are ready to commit 20 mil. That tells me they will do almost anything to get him.[/quote]I think BJax would be the last resort bargaining chip. They’ll probably throw everything else at the Red Sox first.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]This talk about the Red Sox having all the leverage in these negotiations is nonsense. I don’t know which team has or doesn’t have leverage, but Theo Epstein has none. The leverage the Cubs have is they can stick the Sox with $7 million to pay someone who won’t even be with the club. The cubs can move on.[/quote]
agree with this as well
GWQuote Reply
It was discussed earlier and I hate to beat a dead horse (not really) but I wanted to add my 2 cents on Kenney, Crane. The goat incident was really stupid and something even a PR intern would have known better than to do. You are the team President, act like it. What really got me about that beyond the stupidity of the incident was his attempt to blame the Priest after the fact. Crane told everyone the Priest had lobbied him to do the exorcism and he relented. The Priest was contacted and refuted Crane’s entire story claiming that Kenney contacted him out of the blue and requested the ceremony. What kind of an idiot lies about that knowing that the Priest will probably tell the truth if asked? This really made me develop a supreme dislike for him.
Since that time I’ve learned that he has a full Cubs uniform with “Kenney” on the back, and guess his number? That’s right, “1.” He has been known to wear this uniform around the Cubs facilities. Nobody can defend this as normal behavior by your baseball team’s top executive.
I’ve also heard numerous and long standing reports that he has attempted to meddle in baseball ops and take credit for things to which he had zero connection. These were all things that were said about him long before Hendry was fired. I thought it was time for Hendry to go but I’ve always thought he conducted himself in a professional manner. If you noticed he had no words of thanks for Kenney on his way out the door. You don’t have to hate Crane Kenney but there are legitimate reasons to not like this guy and it’s not irrational hatred in my case at least. I wouldn’t waste my hatred on him. It’s my belief that he was lucky to get the job due to happenstance and he’s proven since then he is in no way qualified for it.
Zambrano was the Cubs best pitcher since Maddux so fans scorn seemed outlandish. To compare that to the disdain for Kenney who’s done plenty to warrant it, is an invalid comparison, IMO.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Listening to this moron, John Dennis from WEEI to be exact, talk about how today’s negotiations between the Cubs and Sox did not go well today.
Let me say this guys seems like a douche, who also spent the first few seconds of the interview semi-trashing Theo.[/quote]Tribune sourcing the WEEI thing you listened to:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cbsports-report-epstein-talks-not-going-well-20111013,0,768698.story
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Tribune sourcing the WEEI thing you listened to:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cbsports-report-epstein-talks-not-going-well-20111013,0,768698.story%5B/quote%5D
I really doubt the negotiations hit a snag, or at least I’m hoping that didn’t happen. Just doesn’t seem logical, outside of posturing.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]I really doubt the negotiations hit a snag, or at least I’m hoping that didn’t happen. Just doesn’t seem logical, outside of posturing.[/quote]If it’s a Boston-area report maybe the media is the one doing the posturing since nothing is actually being spilled…just going by some of the weird stuff coming out of New England media outlets though.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]
Kyle Lohse is 61% to win over Wolf?[/quote]
btw, looks like vegas had it at around 58%
GWQuote Reply
Betancourt does it again.
ACTQuote Reply
This was unfortunate for Texas…
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19894889
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I love seeing Theriot fail. Does that make me a bad person?
binkyQuote Reply
I hate seeing the Brewers hand St. Louis out #2 with a runner on 3rd. I would have pulled the pitcher for a pinch hitter.
melissaQuote Reply
It is what it is.
ACTQuote Reply
Yeah, that sucked
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I hate seeing the Brewers hand St. Louis out #2 with a runner on 3rd. I would have pulled the pitcher for a pinch hitter.[/quote]Yup.
ACTQuote Reply
I would have sooner had him swing than bunt, however.
ACTQuote Reply
Finally finished Season 2 of Breaking Bad. Now I understand the bear.
/still-way-behind
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I would have sooner had him swing than bunt, however.[/quote]
He wasn’t going to let him swing away for fear of a double play.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]It was discussed earlier and I hate to beat a dead horse (not really) but I wanted to add my 2 cents on Kenney, Crane. The goat incident was really stupid and something even a PR intern would have known better than to do. You are the team President, act like it. What really got me about that beyond the stupidity of the incident was his attempt to blame the Priest after the fact. Crane told everyone the Priest had lobbied him to do the exorcism and he relented. The Priest was contacted and refuted Crane’s entire story claiming that Kenney contacted him out of the blue and requested the ceremony. What kind of an idiot lies about that knowing that the Priest will probably tell the truth if asked? This really made me develop a supreme dislike for him.
Since that time I’ve learned that he has a full Cubs uniform with “Kenney” on the back, and guess his number? That’s right, “1.” He has been known to wear this uniform around the Cubs facilities. Nobody can defend this as normal behavior by your baseball team’s top executive.
I’ve also heard numerous and long standing reports that he has attempted to meddle in baseball ops and take credit for things to which he had zero connection. These were all things that were said about him long before Hendry was fired. I thought it was time for Hendry to go but I’ve always thought he conducted himself in a professional manner. If you noticed he had no words of thanks for Kenney on his way out the door. You don’t have to hate Crane Kenney but there are legitimate reasons to not like this guy and it’s not irrational hatred in my case at least. I wouldn’t waste my hatred on him. It’s my belief that he was lucky to get the job due to happenstance and he’s proven since then he is in no way qualified for it.
Zambrano was the Cubs best pitcher since Maddux so fans scorn seemed outlandish. To compare that to the disdain for Kenney who’s done plenty to warrant it, is an invalid comparison, IMO.[/quote]I don’t think so. There’s really nothing you’ve said in your comment that justifies the extreme hatred. There’s nothing whatsoever that you have said that speaks to the quality of his job either.
He had a priest come in the dugout. Dumb. Sure. Not something an interim would do? I don’t know. I don’t think it matters. The Cubs didn’t lose because of that. They didn’t lose money because of it. That act literally had no impact on anything at all. He deserves to be made fun of because of, but seeing as it had no negative impact on the club in any way hatred is too much in my opinion.
I don’t know how he meddled in baseball ops and even if he did, so what? Most teams have a President and they are the ones who the GM reports to. If he meddled it’s because of his title and was a part of his job description. Whatever Hendry wanted, he got. Did he try to take credit? No idea, but once again this has no impact (negative or positive) on the Cubs. Not on the field and not financially.
Having a jersey with his name on the back of it is something a lot of people do. He probably chose his favorite number. Maybe he felt he was number 1. I don’t know, but again, this isn’t negatively impacting the team.
Based on what I’ve read, I’ve gathered that disliking someone strongly is grounds for their termination. Possibly having a big ego is grounds for the same thing. I don’t agree with either. If we do not know what Crane Kenney was responsible for, I don’t see how he can be as disliked as he is. We’re not judging him based on his performance just as many fans did not judge Zambrano on his performance. He was a meanie. Crane is a meddler. Zambrano was a lunatic. Crane sprinkled holy water. Zambrano was a me-first player. Crane has a jersey with his name on it. None of this talks about the performance for either one or provides valuable information.
I don’t care if Kenney has 400 jerseys with his name on it and wears them all day long. I don’t care if he got his name and the number 1 tattooed on his penis and waves it around the clubhouse for everyone to see. I don’t care about that for the same reasons we don’t care iif Carlos Zambrano broke a bat over his knee, smashed a gatorade container or tried to hit home runs in batting practice.
How exactly has he proven he’s not qualified? By all accounts he’s a very good businessman and handles that aspect very well. Tom Ricketts has systematically gone through the organization, made some very good decisions in the past several month including hiring Theo Epstein and he kept Crane Kenney. Maybe Kenney is horrible. I don’t know, but I have yet to see a shred of evidence that he’s poor at his job and I don’t think there exists any evidence that says he’s not qualified for the job.
We don’t have to like the guy. I’m relatively certain I would not. But there are a lot of people that I would dislike who might be very good at their jobs. There are even more people I dislike who are qualified and undeserving of being fired.
mb21Quote Reply
Melissa, when I say hatred I’m speaking more in generalities as the negativity toward Kenney seems very much like the hatred directed at Zambrano, Sosa and others.
mb21Quote Reply
Wasn’t it the guy on WEEI who said yesterday that the Red Sox would probably want cash? Now he’s saying they want prospects. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
I would just like to say for the record that if my boss came into my office waggling his dick to show off his #1 dick tattoo, I would not be motivated to do any work at all. I would be immediately trying to figure out how to get out of my position. This seems to be based on the premise that baseball players always give 100% no matter what the situation is in the clubhouse or on the team. What if that’s not true?
binkyQuote Reply
Keith Law thinks Brett Jackson would be fair compensation. I’m not so sure now that I know the Sox would be on the hook for $7 million if they don’t reach a deal.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Wasn’t it the guy on WEEI who said yesterday that the Red Sox would probably want cash? Now he’s saying they want prospects. (dying laughing)[/quote]I’m thinking he doesn’t have a clue what they want.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
But that’s me, i don’t play professional ball. Movies have taught more that there’s at least a thousand percent more dick waggling in professional ball than there is at an engineering firm.
binkyQuote Reply
I’m relatively certain it’s not true, Josh. Just as we don’t give 100% on everything we do, even if we’re paid, there’s no reason at all to think that baseball players give 100% all the time. They’re human beings.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]But that’s me, i don’t play professional ball. Movies have taught more that there’s at least a thousand percent more dick waggling in professional ball than there is at an engineering firm.[/quote](dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Keith Law thinks Brett Jackson would be fair compensation. I’m not so sure now that I know the Sox would be on the hook for $7 million if they don’t reach a deal.[/quote]
It could go either way.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I would just like to say for the record that if my boss came into my office waggling his dick to show off his #1 dick tattoo, I would not be motivated to do any work at all. I would be immediately trying to figure out how to get out of my position. [/quote]You just don’t have a job where that’s common practice. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It could go either way.[/quote]Exactly.
Seriously though, Jackson makes the most sense. He’s not an elite prospect. He’s a good one. At the same time you’d like to keep him. I don’t know. 50/50.
mb21Quote Reply
I have no idea what crane does. If he does nothing or is uesless, fire him. If he’s got a big ego but does nothing, I’m pro firing him. He’s not a player and he gets no dick waggling priviileges, at least in my book. If he brings in money and serves a useful purpose without being more than the average (for corporate US) dickhead, well, then you tolerate the bad with the good, I guess. Rickets has at least shown that he’s earned the benefit of the doubt on Kenny, I think, now that we have some good prospects signed and Theo almost on the books.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You just don’t have a job where that’s common practice. (dying laughing)[/quote]My boss likes to metaphorically show us his dick. That’s bad enough. I’m looking for a new job, if you’re hiring I understand there’s tons of cash in blogging.
binkyQuote Reply
Sox apparently want Brett Jackson: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/10/sox-cubs_talks.html
“Top prospect” is what he says, but that’s fairly obvious who it means since he also says they don’t have many.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Melissa, when I say hatred I’m speaking more in generalities as the negativity toward Kenney seems very much like the hatred directed at Zambrano, Sosa and others.[/quote]
MB, people were much meaner to Kurt on the internet, so people being negative towards Kenney is a moot point.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Exactly.
Seriously though, Jackson makes the most sense. He’s not an elite prospect. He’s a good one. At the same time you’d like to keep him. I don’t know. 50/50.[/quote]Think MLB has any jurisdiction in this? I mean, considering the Youk-for-Beane thing years ago, it does seem a BJax-for-Theo trade is fair, but just wondering if the Cubs can cry to Big Brother and grab their GM if the Red Sox want to play hardball.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’ll give Ricketts the benefit of the doubt on Kenney. I think he’s earned that at this point.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Think MLB has any jurisdiction in this? I mean, considering the Youk-for-Beane thing years ago, it does seem a BJax-for-Theo trade is fair, but just wondering if the Cubs can cry to Big Brother and grab their GM if the Red Sox want to play hardball.[/quote]I think MLB would only be concerned if there was a lot of money changing hands.
mb21Quote Reply
MLB has to approve any trade in which $1 million (think it’s that) changes hands. I’m sure this situation qualifies as a trade.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Think MLB has any jurisdiction in this? I mean, considering the Youk-for-Beane thing years ago, it does seem a BJax-for-Theo trade is fair, but just wondering if the Cubs can cry to Big Brother and grab their GM if the Red Sox want to play hardball.[/quote]It seems like a bad move for a team. What’s to stop you from trying that for a midseason player trade, for example?
binkyQuote Reply
The only time I’m aware of MLB denying a deal is when the Cubs tried to trade Jacque Jones to the Florida Marlins in 2007. The Cubs were going to send $2-3 million and MLB blocked it because of the ownership issue.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]It seems like a bad move for a team. What’s to stop you from trying that for a midseason player trade, for example?[/quote]Seems like a different situation since this isn’t a straight-up on-field guy for on-field guy trade. But I’m not that much of an expert in MLB transactions.
I’d rather have Theo than BJax to be honest, but I’d also prefer to keep both. I’m selfish because Aramis Ramirez taught me so.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’d give up Jackson for Theo. Jackson has enough question marks in his game that I have no problem with that. If he struckout less and was sure to stick in CF, then I might feel differently.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Seems like a different situation since this isn’t a straight-up on-field guy for on-field guy trade. But I’m not that much of an expert in MLB transactions.
I’d rather have Theo than BJax to be honest, but I’d also prefer to keep both. I’m selfish because Aramis Ramirez taught me so.[/quote]They may have to establish some rules if this becomes common enough practice. I think Theo will be better long term, though since i see a lot more of the players than the GM, I feel more protective of the players, I guess.
binkyQuote Reply
I don’t think you can say Kenney’s goat fiasco had no impact. Coaches and players witnessed this circus. You font think the President creating a pre-game distraction is foolish? Fine but you have no idea if it had an impact or not. Players talked about the feeling ghey had when things went wrong and this certainly couldn’t have helped. Kenney’s supposed to lead by example so don’t just dismiss the stupid things that are known. If you can make a nebulous assumption he has done good we don’t know about then we can also assume there are negative things to which we aren’t privy. If you are the top executive you have an obligation to carry yourself in a manner that can be respected and Kenney has failed to do that many times. He has certainly done more harm than good when it comes to image and image matters in a business you are selling to a fandom. I’m not going to like Kenney just to be contrarian to the majority of Cubs fans.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]They may have to establish some rules if this becomes common enough practice. I think Theo will be better long term, though since i see a lot more of the players than the GM, I feel more protective of the players, I guess.[/quote]If I were the Cubs I definitely prioritize Theo over anybody on the farm but I think I still try to hold out and hope they just take Jay Jackson or Trey McNutt (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’m not hammering on Ricketts for not dumping Kenney. I just see no reason to keep him around if you don’t want him to have anything to do with baseball operations. Kenney was initially brought in to negotiate on the bleacher expansion with the city. He has not been an asset in regard to getting the stadium renovation underway as a whole new person had to be hired to deal with city hall. I have to give Kenney at least some of the blame for Ricketts blunderous attempt earlier this year to get public financing for the stadium rehab.
melissaQuote Reply
Both ALCS and NLCS became interesting again.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’d give up Jackson for Theo. Jackson has enough question marks in his game that I have no problem with that. If he struckout less and was sure to stick in CF, then I might feel differently.[/quote]
I’m curious as to whether the staffing situation has truly been settled. WCVB reported it as finished, while Levine said it was being negotiated as part of the compensation. If it is still up for discussion, then Theo is almost certainly involved, at least indirectly.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]I’m curious as to whether the staffing situation has truly been settled. WCVB reported it as finished, while Levine said it was being negotiated as part of the compensation. If it is still up for discussion, then Theo is almost certainly involved, at least indirectly.[/quote]I doubt it. In fact I’m guessing this is the hangup in the deal moreso than compensation. I’d bet the Red Sox end up with cash and an agreement to not take any staff for 1-2 years. If Theo wants certain people from the org that might be where the Sox want more than cash….depending on the staff.
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]I’m curious as to whether the staffing situation has truly been settled. WCVB reported it as finished, while Levine said it was being negotiated as part of the compensation. If it is still up for discussion, then Theo is almost certainly involved, at least indirectly.[/quote]It’s like the Boston and Chicago beat writers are trying to out-stupid each other.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
All the reports so far are saying teams are far apart in negotiations. Seems fairly standard to me considering it’s only day 1. Cubs offer cash, Red Sox say they’d rather have a high-level prospect. Teams go back at it day 2 with a compromise. No need to get everyone riled up.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
And I think the McPhail situation when he left the Twins might be a decent case study. He and Terry Ryan actually worked together to negotiate terms.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]All the reports so far are saying teams are far apart in negotiations. Seems fairly standard to me considering it’s only day 1. Cubs offer cash, Red Sox say they’d rather have a high-level prospect. Teams go back at it day 2 with a compromise. No need to get everyone riled up.[/quote]Yeah, that’s my take right now. I mean, the only info we’re getting are from a group of people who would have otherwise spent their offseason writing columns about how 29 YO “kids” should be getting a shot and won’t because wonks in their moms basement have ruined the game.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, that’s my take right now. I mean, the only info we’re getting are from a group of people who would have otherwise spent their offseason writing columns about how 29 YO “kids” should be getting a shot and won’t because wonks in their moms basement have ruined the game.[/quote]
I guess I’m a little hyper-sensitive right now anyway. I’m reading every word written as I have not been this excited about the Cubs in a long time.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]I guess I’m a little hyper-sensitive right now anyway. I’m reading every word written as I have not been this excited about the Cubs in a long time.[/quote]For reals. This is like porn for statfags. With a blackboard even.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=JMan]I doubt it. In fact I’m guessing this is the hangup in the deal moreso than compensation. I’d bet the Red Sox end up with cash and an agreement to not take any staff for 1-2 years. If Theo wants certain people from the org that might be where the Sox want more than cash….depending on the staff.[/quote]
this seems like a pretty decent bet.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I don’t think you can say Kenney’s goat fiasco had no impact. Coaches and players witnessed this circus. You font think the President creating a pre-game distraction is foolish? Fine but you have no idea if it had an impact or not. Players talked about the feeling ghey had when things went wrong and this certainly couldn’t have helped. Kenney’s supposed to lead by example so don’t just dismiss the stupid things that are known. If you can make a nebulous assumption he has done good we don’t know about then we can also assume there are negative things to which we aren’t privy. If you are the top executive you have an obligation to carry yourself in a manner that can be respected and Kenney has failed to do that many times. He has certainly done more harm than good when it comes to image and image matters in a business you are selling to a fandom. I’m not going to like Kenney just to be contrarian to the majority of Cubs fans.[/quote]I don’t think my opinion on it matters. It’s as likely it helped the Cubs as it is that it hurt them. It’s like clubhouse chemistry.
Kenney has failed to live up to your expectations. You, me, and everyone else have no clue if he’s lived up to his professional expectations.
If image matters, then how on earth can we claim he’s damaged it? The Cubs just hired the best GM in the game. They’re making more money than they ever have.
My opinions here have nothing to do with being contrarian. I don’t have an opinion on Crane Kenney because I don’t even know what his job is. I’m as qualified to comment on his performance as I am commenting on how well you do your job.
You tell me what his job is and how he’s performed poorly at it and I’ll change my mind. That’s the problem I have here. People dislike Kenney and they argue why they do, which is perfectly fine. But I’ve yet to see anyone point out anything that we can conclude he’s doing a poor job at. I’m not saying you should like him. I’m not saying Aisle 424 or anyone else should. I’m just saying that we don’t know what he does, we don’t have any idea if he’s any good at it and that’s all that matters when it comes to whether or not he should be fired.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’m just saying that we don’t know what he does, we don’t have any idea if he’s any good at it and that’s all that matters when it comes to whether or not he should be fired.[/quote]I think that’s a good point. Rickets has been showing his cards lately and he’s got a lot stronger hand than most of us assumed. I think Kenny is irrelevant.
binkyQuote Reply
Irrelevant, baseball-wise.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m not hammering on Ricketts for not dumping Kenney. I just see no reason to keep him around if you don’t want him to have anything to do with baseball operations. Kenney was initially brought in to negotiate on the bleacher expansion with the city. He has not been an asset in regard to getting the stadium renovation underway as a whole new person had to be hired to deal with city hall. I have to give Kenney at least some of the blame for Ricketts blunderous attempt earlier this year to get public financing for the stadium rehab.[/quote]
I agree with that. Good point. What else can we blame on Kenney? Also, what else can we give him credit for? That’s where the problem begins. So much negative shit has needlessly been written about Kenney by bloggers and the media who want people to dislike him that it’s going to be impossible to figure that out. But I will guarantee you that if you go back to when he was hired he was the greatest thing ever for the Cubs. Is it any surprise to anyone after the team has performed poorly that he’s now an evil man? To me, that has Paul Sullivan written all over it. We’ve seen the exact same thing far too many times. We’re seeing it in Boston right now. Tito and Theo went from awesome to pieces of shit in a matter of days. Maybe it’s true. Maybe Kenney is awful. Maybe Tito and Theo are the worst ever at their job. I don’t have any idea. It’s entirely possible that Paul Sullivan has been right all along. It’s possible the hit piece in Boston yesterday was 100% accurate. I’m just way too skeptical of these scumbags. I don’t care what they say about anyone associated with sports. I realize that ignores some truth, but it also ignores a lot of lies. I’m OK with that.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]I think that’s a good point. Rickets has been showing his cards lately and he’s got a lot stronger hand than most of us assumed. I think Kenny is irrelevant.[/quote]Yep. He’s been irrelevant as far as baseball ops goes since the beginning of the 2010 season. Ricketts even said that.
mb21Quote Reply
Another relevant point, I think, is that Brett Jackson is a much better prospect now than Youk was in 2002. It seems ridiculous to even think about that now, since the odds are against him having a youk-level career, but the facts are pretty clear. Youk was a 23 year old 3B who had just made it to AA with serious questions about his power and his defense. There was a decent chance he would turn into a Daric Barton type, or worse. We all know the knocks on Jackson, but he has twice been in the BA top 100 (#38 last year), which Youk never made.
Jackson was a 1st rounder (vs. 8th), a better athlete, better reputation as a defender, has shown more power, and has progressed through the system faster than youkilis did. There is a reason Beane thought he could steal him out of Boston in a 3-way trade for little to nothing.
GWQuote Reply
fwiw:
http://twitter.com/#!/HotStoveCubbies/status/124512277507473408
GWQuote Reply
It seems the hobbit has finally found a source, as well:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-1014-gm-cubs-chicago–20111014,0,2100383.story
Not enough there that Paul lacked the space to let Billy Corgan weigh in, though.
GWQuote Reply
Some good ass shit here:
http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/statsdriven/2011/10/in_defense_of_theo.html?p1=News_links
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]fwiw:
http://twitter.com/#!/HotStoveCubbies/status/124512277507473408%5B/quote%5DI'd be fine with LaMahieu, except that he seemed to be the leading candidate for 3B next season. Well, perhaps the new GM can figure something out.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]Another relevant point, I think, is that Brett Jackson is a much better prospect now than Youk was in 2002. It seems ridiculous to even think about that now, since the odds are against him having a youk-level career, but the facts are pretty clear. Youk was a 23 year old 3B who had just made it to AA with serious questions about his power and his defense. There was a decent chance he would turn into a Daric Barton type, or worse. We all know the knocks on Jackson, but he has twice been in the BA top 100 (#38 last year), which Youk never made.
Jackson was a 1st rounder (vs. 8th), a better athlete, better reputation as a defender, has shown more power, and has progressed through the system faster than youkilis did. There is a reason Beane thought he could steal him out of Boston in a 3-way trade for little to nothing.[/quote]I’ve thought about that too, but when Youk was coming up the rankings were a bit different. OBP is huge now. It was only starting to seem like a valuable stat when Youk was coming up. The age is important, but the overall performance favors Youk because he was so much better at getting on base.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]I’d be fine with LaMahieu, except that he seemed to be the leading candidate for 3B next season. Well, perhaps the new GM can figure something out.[/quote]I think Baker and Flaherty have a better chance to play 3rd next year.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ve thought about that too, but when Youk was coming up the rankings were a bit different. OBP is huge now. It was only starting to seem like a valuable stat when Youk was coming up. The age is important, but the overall performance favors Youk because he was so much better at getting on base.[/quote]
i don’t really think it would make much of a difference. (full disclosure, i think that the “undervalued obp theory” was overblown). every year it seems like there are big obp/low power saber-darlings that don’t get respect in prospect rankings, and have at best slightly more success than the their prospect status would have indicated. youk transformed himself from a 10hr guy to a 25hr guy. without that, he’d likely as not be a bench player.
GWQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/cubs-next-manager.html
mb21Quote Reply