I was planning to do a few of these a week and I know berselius is going to help, but then Theo-mania started and I got sidetracked. I started thinking about doing them again and my first instinct was to start with some of the back-ups since I’d already done ones for Marlon Byrd, Randy Wells and Alfonso Soriano (player review series). Then I read Jack’s excellent article on Carlos Zambrano so I wanted to write about Big Z.
Jack’s argument won’t be a popular one among Cubs fans. He’s arguing the Cubs should keep Zambrano as they don’t have the pitching depth to replace him. There’s a lot of other stuff in there that you should go read but I think that’s the gist of it. Zambrano became my favorite player in 2003. Although no man of his size needs little ol’ me to back him up, I’ve done just that over the years. Cubs fans have failed to realize how good Z has been in his Cubs career and once a year I’ve tried to remind them.
This isn’t to say he’s not without his issues. He’s paid more than he’s worth, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you just get rid of him. For example, say someone is paid $10 million and they are only worth $7 million. So you trade the guy away, include either $3 million in cash or $3 million in value in prospects in the package, and get little to nothing in return. Now you’re down $7 million in production and you’ve saved only $7 million. So you spend that on the free agent market and what do you get? $7 million in value. Ever heard of doing things for the sake of doing something? That’s what this is. Our imaginary team made a couple of transactions involving players, cash and/or prospects, brought a new guy on and are in the same shape. They’re no better than they were.
Now imagine our imaginary player makes $18 million and that few teams would consider paying him more than $4-5 million for the final year of his contract. Our imaginary player may not be worth $18 million, but he’s still a decent pitcher. Maybe he’s worth $10 million in value. Perhaps more. Doesn’t really matter since this is an imagnary player. So we trade this $18 million away and save $4 million. We traded $10 million in value and now have ony $4 million to reinvest in the free agent market. Doesn’t make sense, does it? In these transactions the imaginary team has made the team $6 million worse and they’ve wasted the time necessary to complete these transactions.
Our imaginary player above is Carlos Zambrano. Best case scenario is the Cubs come out $6 million worse they otherwise would be. In this example, the team valued Zambrano’s poor behavior as costing the team $6 million. While that may be possible, it’s highly unlikely. This is why trading Zambrano isn’t a simple decision. But it is also a relatively small amount of money that it won’t stop them from doing just that. Yes, one of the first moves of the new front office will essentially be making the team worse and fans will cheer. It’s an odd world we live in.
There’s very strong arguments to be made to keep Zambrano. The lack of depth in the Cubs system is one. The fact the team will be worse in talent level is another. There’s only one weak argument that can be made to trade him: clubhouse chemistry.
There is evidence, or at least several examples anyway, that teams are willing to give up on players that are league average or worse. You probably can’t find a player a team has just released or given away for nothing that was a 3 WAR player, but there are examples of players who were 2 WAR or less that teams have released or given away.
This doesn’t mean that their poor clubhouse attitude affected the team by that much. Phil Birnbaum offers an idea.
My suspicion, though, is that the Milton Bradleys don’t actually cost their teams 1.4 wins that way. I think there are other reasons that the Cubs might have for releasing Bradley than just a sober calculation of his effect on the team’s on-field performance.
First, there’s deterrence. There has to be some mechanism by which teams prevent their players from going off half-cocked and ruining team chemistry. There has to be the threat, explicit or implicit, that if the player is disrespectful towards the team, he will pay a price. For most players, who want their time with the team to be as pleasant as possible, the desire to get along with their teammates might be enough incentive. But when an anti-social player crosses the line, the punishment may have to have a negative cost to the team.
This is like any job. Employers aren’t going to let their employees get away with whatever they want even if they are very good employees. Doing so might encourage other employees to behave similarly and then you have a mess. Some might say you have the 2011 Red Sox clubhouse. The employer controls the behavior of the players by not allowing others to do certain things. If you’re a very good Barry Bonds, you get away with it. You’re too valuable. If it’s Barry Bonds looking for one more year and only about 1.5 wins worth of value, he’s out of luck.
Teams may make themselves worse in talent level, but it’s in an effort to ensure that other players don’t behave in similar ways. This is more than reasonable. You won’t find too many jobs that are different than this.
Before we figure out how good Zambrano is going forward and whether or not he’s one of those guys that qualifies as being released or given away, let’s take a look back at the 2011 season.
Zambrano has had an xFIP above 4.20 every year since 2006. xFIP normalizes HR/FB rate to 10%, but Zambrano has consistenty had a HR/FB rate below that. As a result his FIP has been considerably lower and the same is true of his ERA. While his FIP was between 4.14 and 4.56 between 2006 and 2008, it has generally been lower. Only twice in his career was his ERA in the 3.9 to 3.95 range and never was it higher. It had also been quite a bit lower.
Things changed in 2011. His ERA jumped to 4.82. His FIP was 4.59, which was high, but he’d been near that before. His xFIP was 4.34, which wasn’t really that high. It had been higher twice in his career. The reason for the high ERA isn’t entirely HR/FB rate. It was only 11.3%, which is higher than you’d expect and higher than his career average, but not by that much. The biggest reason is this:
1st and 2nd: .994 OPS allowed
1st and 3rd: .814
2nd and 3rd: .840
1st, less than 2 out: .840
Zambrano was hit very hard in those situations, which are going to result in a lot of runs. This is sequencing. There’s no reason to believe that Z’s talent level is .994 OPS with runners on 1st and 2nd. His true talent level in that situation is equal to his true talent level overall.
This doesn’t mean that Zambrano pitched well. He gave up 9.5 hits per 9 (a lot higher than any other season). He gave up 1.2 HR/9 (also the highest in his career). He only struckout 6.2 per 9, which was by far the lowest in his career. His walk rate improved to 3.5 per 9. As a result, his K/BB was about the same as it’s been for Zambrano since 2006. His fastball velocity was a bit lower than last year, but not much different. Both years are a mph slower than previous years. Or more.
Zambrano is getting hit harder, striking fewer out and in 2011 gave up a lot of home runs. There’s been a lot of talk by the pundits about who could bounce back in 2012 and I haven’t heard Zambrano’s name mentioned. Carl Crawford has the best chance of bouncing back, but I could also see Z being quite a bit better. He’ll never be the pitcher he was many years ago, but he could still be useful.
Looking ahead to next year we can get an idea of how well Zambrano is expected to be by looking at the available projections. Bill James is projecting a 4.13 FIP. CAIRO projects 4.05 FIP while ZiPS projects 4.26. That’s a 4.15 average projection.
He’s pitched only 275.1 innings the last 2 years. He’s been injured a bit more than the past and his behavior has cost him significant playing time. There’s no way we could project him to pitch 200 innings. James projects 181 innings, but CAIRO projects just 103 and ZiPS projects 137.2. The average is 141. That’s 1.8 WAR.
That puts Zambrano in the range that teams have shown a willingness to get rid of problem players for little or nothing.
I don’t know if I’d trade Zambrano or not. I’d have some questions, but I’m sure Theo and Hoyer have better ones. Can we expect him to pitch more than 140 innings? Can we expect him to bounce back a bit or is closer to what he was last year? The projections look at the previous years so there’s some regression involved. Considering the mileage on his arm, it’s entirely possible his true talent level is closer to what he did last year than what the projections are. If he could pitch 180 innings at a 4.13 FIP, that’s about 2.4 WAR. A 4.3 FIP in 180 innings is 2 WAR.
Whether or not trading Zambrano makes the Cubs better, and I don’t see how anyone can argue it does based on what we know, teams have made decisions to cut loose player similar to Zambrano so it’s hard to say it’s a bad decision to do so. In fact, I’m inclined to think it’s the best thing to do and that really is tough to say considering how much I’ve enjoyed watching him pitch over the years.
Comments
So it could go either way.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
They found Wilson Ramos.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Since we are talking about Z:
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/18353/trading-problems-to-help-cubs-mariners
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
Not to mention, he typically adds about 0.5 WAR with his bat.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Not to mention, he typically adds about 0.5 WAR with his bat.[/quote]He was .7 rWAR / 1 fWAR with the bat in only 48 PA this year! He had higher WAR from batting than from pitching (dying laughing). But it seems to me that the value he adds that way is a serious consideration. It almost makes up for Garza’s black-hole performance at the plate.
fang2415Quote Reply
[quote name=fang2415]Garza’s black-hole performance at the plate.[/quote](dying laughing)
Just noticed that both Hill and Colvin had lower WAR at the plate than Garza.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
fang2415Quote Reply
[quote name=fang2415](dying laughing)
Just noticed that both Hill and Colvin had lower WAR at the plate than Garza.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]I believe ACT once had the idea that they should be allowed to use the DH for someone other than the pitcher for just this reason.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I don’t remember ever saying anything like that. Obviously Garza is a much worse hitter than Colvin or Hill, but his positional adjustment is much greater.
ACTQuote Reply
Also, fewer PA’s means less negative WAR for Garza.
ACTQuote Reply
Z just might be a better hitter than Hill, though (his career numbers are better).
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I don’t remember ever saying anything like that. Obviously Garza is a much worse hitter than Colvin or Hill, but his positional adjustment is much greater.[/quote]All you posters look alike.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I can’t decide what the most impressive aspect of Z’s batting line is: his .333 career BABIP or his 27.1% HR/FB. In both categories, he towers over Albert Pujols. If he could only learn to cut down on his K’s, take an occasional walk, and stop hitting so many grounders…
ACTQuote Reply
Wilson Ramos —–> Rescued
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7222317/wilson-ramos-washington-nationals-found-alive-well-kidnapping
ACTQuote Reply
The other thing to consider wrt a decision about trading or keeping Zambrano is whether the team has any reasonable chance of contending. Can the Cubs get themselves within 2 wins of being considered contenders? If not, I see no reason to keep him. Throw some money in the deal and get what you can get in return. Zambrano, at best, would be a type B free agent so there’s no chance you offer him arbitration. You get nothing that way. So this decision is more than just about whether or not Zambrano is still a productive player.
If the team can get within contention, then what I’ve written above applies. I’d be more inclined to keep him if that was the case, but would understand if they don’t. But if they can’t contend, having him around leaves you with less moving forward and it has the chance of blowing up in their faces. The right decision in that case is to trade him.
mb21Quote Reply
The Cubs will need rotation depth whether they’re contending or not.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]The Cubs will need rotation depth whether they’re contending or not.[/quote]Yeah that’s true. I think the Cubs could add some depth through free agency or trades.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah that’s true. I think the Cubs could add some depth through free agency or trades.[/quote]I wonder what Byrd could bring back. Or Marmol for that matter. It does seem a bit counterproductive to jettison your expensive pitcher and then pay more to get other pitchers.
I also wonder what Theo will set as guidelines for Z should he be retained. Seems it would be difficult to maintain a good relationship when the player is essentially on probation.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I tend to think there’s a reason beyond sequencing that Zambrano’s numbers are worse with runners on. He does get visibly shaken anytime things start going against him. I have to believe that’s a factor.
PatQuote Reply
[quote name=Pat]I tend to think there’s a reason beyond sequencing that Zambrano’s numbers are worse with runners on. He does get visibly shaken anytime things start going against him. I have to believe that’s a factor.[/quote]That’s interesting. I haven’t looked at past seasons, but is there evidence to suggest that his numbers with men on base or in high leverage situations are worse than we’d expect?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I wonder what Byrd could bring back. Or Marmol for that matter. It does seem a bit counterproductive to jettison your expensive pitcher and then pay more to get other pitchers.
I also wonder what Theo will set as guidelines for Z should he be retained. Seems it would be difficult to maintain a good relationship when the player is essentially on probation.[/quote]Depends on who the other pitchers are. If you trade someone and grab a prospect it makes perfect sense. If you pick someone up for 3-years and $15 million it could provide value when the team can contend. If they’re just going to replace that roster spot for one year with someone a bit worse then it doesn’t make sense.
mb21Quote Reply
Z’s career numbers are better with bases empty, but most pitchers’ numbers are (due to pitching from the stretch and fielders guarding bases). Z’s gap might be a slightly wider than average (I did a quick glance at his stats on b-ref vs. the mlb splits for 2011 and it seemed to be the case). In The Book, they found some persistent skill in pitching with men on base, but not a ton.
ACTQuote Reply
Sparty creating some pretty big holes in Iowa D-line. Horrible start.
cdwQuote Reply
Iowa has a good week and then a bad week. It’s bad week time. Looks like MSU is going to destroy Iowa by as much as Iowa destroyed them last year.
mb21Quote Reply
Fuck this game.
cdwQuote Reply
Wow. This is UGLY
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I think the Cubs could add some depth through free agency or trades.[/quote]That’s generally how you add things. (dying laughing)
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]That’s generally how you add things. (dying laughing)[/quote]That mb21 is an idiot.
mb21Quote Reply
Texas Tech —> getting asses kicked
Rice CubeQuote Reply
What’s the story with the the PedAssYou game? Did it go ahead?
Suburban kid 22Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid 22]What’s the story with the the PedAssYou game? Did it go ahead?[/quote]Indeed. I believe they are losing.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I wish Marvin McNutt could play at Iowa forever.
mb21Quote Reply
Yeah, he is an offensive force for Iowa. That end around cut inside was awesome.
cdwQuote Reply
He just broke the Iowa receiving yards record and earlier this year broke the TD record. He spent 1+ seasons as a QB. It wasn’t until midway through his sophomore season that he made the permanent switch to WR and became a starter. That adds a little context to how awesome he’s been at Iowa.
mb21Quote Reply
Fuck that false start call. Didn’t see a reply but I don’t like it (dying laughing) I really like the quick to the line play on 4th down too. Damn.
cdwQuote Reply
I don’t know if they were set for one second or not, but that takes balls for a ref to call.
mb21Quote Reply
Every fucking play an MSU player is hurt. Except on the ones they get a stop. This is bullshit.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Every fucking play an MSU player is hurt. Except on the ones they get a stop. This is bullshit.[/quote]Yeah, what is happening with that is absurdly transparent and annoying. Wish they could get penalized.
What an awful game to watch. Terrible tackling and a whole bunch of pants shitting at the end of the 2nd & 4th Qs.
cdwQuote Reply
Not a good game by Iowa, but it was at least exciting enough to watch all 4 quarters. I did not think I’d be able to watch the entire game so that pleases me.
Yeah, cdw, that shit MSU was doing was obvious. It was literally every single player that Iowa had positive yardage on.
mb21Quote Reply
It was worth watching till the end. I didn’t think that would be the case at the half. Glad Iowa offered some resistance. It’s just too bad they had so many Cubbie Occurrences.
I’ll still be pleased with the season (considering the horrible defense) if Iowa can either win out or beat UNL. Save that the season is about what I expected coming in. (Though switch the loss to ISU to ANYONE else that actually has a FBS division program. I would switch the loss to Minnesota but Iowa did that for me free of charge.)
cdwQuote Reply
I expected 6 wins entering the season. I figured 5 was more than possible and I thought 7 to 8 tops. I doubt Iowa beats Nebraska, but has a good chance to beat Purdue. That would give them 6 wins and a bowl appearance. We’ve seen over the years that KF is pretty damn good at getting his teams prepared for bowl games (since they got destroyed by USC).
mb21Quote Reply
It gets old watching UW play FCS teams.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It gets old watching UW play FCS teams.[/quote]I feel like the wins against teams in a lesser subdivision shouldn’t be allowed to count as official. If they’re going to have tune-up games, have a three-week period for exhibition before they actually play the official games. Probably digs into academics and what not, but at the same time teams shouldn’t be rewarded for running up the score on inferior competition. Although whenever someone loses to Appalachian State, they would’ve deserved it (dying laughing)
It also bugs me that there’s a month-plus of downtime between the last regular season game (or conference championship) and the BCS bowls. I guess they have to take their final exams etc. though.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I feel like the wins against teams in a lesser subdivision shouldn’t be allowed to count as official. If they’re going to have tune-up games, have a three-week period for exhibition before they actually play the official games. Probably digs into academics and what not, but at the same time teams shouldn’t be rewarded for running up the score on inferior competition. Although whenever someone loses to Appalachian State, they would’ve deserved it (dying laughing)
It also bugs me that there’s a month-plus of downtime between the last regular season game (or conference championship) and the BCS bowls. I guess they have to take their final exams etc. though.[/quote] (dying laughing), that was a dig at Minnesota, not a serious criticism. Though I would like UW to play a tougher schedule.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing), that was a dig at Minnesota, not a serious criticism. Though I would like UW to play a tougher schedule.[/quote]What’s up with Minnesota these days? They used to be somewhat respectable.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing), that was a dig at Minnesota, not a serious criticism. Though I would like UW to play a tougher schedule.[/quote]Minnesota beat Iowa. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
Two years in a row.
mb21Quote Reply
Brad Fucking Snyder ——–> minor league deal with HOU.
No idea why the super friends are letting young players leave the org like this.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Brad Fucking Snyder ——–> minor league deal with HOU.
No idea why the super friends are letting young players leave the org like this.[/quote]Nothing ever changes.
mb21Quote Reply
Meet the New Cubs, same as the Old Cubs.
ACTQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/an-example-of-very-poor-journalism.html
mb21Quote Reply