re: 2012 WAR.It’s been delayed due to a major rework of the system on batting side, almost done and should update w/ all details soon.— Baseball Reference (@baseball_ref) April 25, 2012
Anyway, back to the subject of pitchers hitting and the changing role of the pitcher. When the NL started out, teams had one main pitcher. He would try to start every game and go the distance. Substitutions were not allowed except in the case of injury (and even then, not always granted). So, when the starting pitcher got too tired (or knocked around) to continue, he’d have to switch positions with another player. As a result, teams had one player known as a “change pitcher”: a position player who doubled as a reliever.
For instance, the 1876 White Stockings (now known as the Cubs): The main pitcher was Al Spalding, who got the majority of the innings, but also played positions other than pitcher. Their change pitcher was Cal McVey, who was mainly a first baseman, catcher, and outfielder.
@ ACT:
Also worth noting: this system was long obsolete by the time Babe Ruth came around. Ruth was just such a good hitter that he could demand to play in the outfield. He was exceptional.
@ ACT:
So Ruth was actually unusual for his time? I didn’t know that.
The pint still remains that the game has evolved as pitchers have tried more and more to get strikeouts. If one dude was always pitching, he probably wasn’t throwing 90, more like 50. It was more about putting the ball in play. As the game got more competitive, pitchers focused more on pitching and less on hitting, because that’s where the money was.
@ josh:
Yeah, he was unique. By the 20th century, pitchers rarely played other positions. Cy Young, for instance, played 5 games at first base his whole career 906 as a pitcher.
I can see LAA as a destination for Marmol this summer. Their bullpen sucks, and they consider themselves contenders. They can probably also afford his contract. I’m actually curious if given the new CBA if saving money actually has less value (I know that sounds initially rediculous) because there are less quality players hitting the FA market. Although I guess it gives one the freedom to add other contracts in trade, which is part of how I expect the Cubs to use their financial prowess.
@ ACT:
Specialization is inevitable, as guys battle for roster spots and their share of the money. Once baseball became popular and the money rolled in, it wasn’t good enough to be a pitcher, you wanted to be the BEST pitcher. It’s fine with me.
The one good thing about keeping the pitcher as a hitter is some of the strategy that you retain. I still think that no set lineup, 9 batters max per inning, everyone bats only once idea would be fun.
That’s how they’ll play in Joshball. Joshball will also be indoors. And there will be scoring rings/skillshots and otherwise no homeruns. And a clock.
I am so sad. Today I come in to work and went to look at “JOOOOOOOOE MATHER!” at josh’s OBB, and I get this:
Access Denied (policy_denied)
Your system policy has denied access to the requested URL.
URL: http://obb.joshuallen.com/
Category: none (none)
Josh, did the Category change from something to none? Or is work on to me… Does this mean I have to actually work? What if this happens to OV? I may have to find a new job…
Comments
I think everyone can listen to this game for free
dylanjQuote Reply
Exciting.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7853268/ex-mlbpa-diector-marvin-miller-players-salaries-more-justifiable-ceo-pay
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=t437&t=g_log&gid=2012_04_25_peoafx_lcoafx_1
Chiefs should try to give the new guy some early run support.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
LaHair now has most of the Cubs’ home runs. Expect this trend to continue.
ACTQuote Reply
first batter gets a hit. BOOOOOOOOOOO
dylanjQuote Reply
the team they are playing has a lot of top prospects in it
dylanjQuote Reply
3 batters = three hits.
(dying laughing)
dylanjQuote Reply
i feel like im listening to a Hayden Simpson start
dylanjQuote Reply
and a HR. wow.
dylanjQuote Reply
ACTQuote Reply
DJ, you just have to wait for him to transform, then none of this will have ever happened.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
hey F7 is legit. You and MD can snark away. THIS on the other hand was never really well thought out
dylanjQuote Reply
the nicest thing I can say is it seems he can throw strikes. Its just that they are getting crushed
dylanjQuote Reply
Don’t know why this took so long.
GBTSQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
That might be the case. There’s just no reliable data set that leads to that conclusion.
But I’m with you on this Concepcion thing. Even in Cuba his numbers weren’t especially impressive.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
(dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Objectively hot, as verified by science:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2132896/Florence-Colgate-Girl-Britains-beautiful-face.html
GBTSQuote Reply
all i know is that Ive seen F7 start before and his stuff was never like its been this spring/april. Even his fastball seems better.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
Her mom is a MILF.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
God, the Rays’ stadium is depressing.
ACTQuote Reply
This thread really should have been sponsored by Ozzie Guillen.
MishQuote Reply
There’s gotta be a better cleanup hitter against LHP than Keppinger. Maybe the guy right behind him (Upton).
MishQuote Reply
@ Mish:
Just about anyone, I’d think.
ACTQuote Reply
Actually, Keppinger is hitting 5th today (still too high).
ACTQuote Reply
Just turned on the game so I assumed Longo was 3rd. Whichevers.
MishQuote Reply
Anyway, back to the subject of pitchers hitting and the changing role of the pitcher. When the NL started out, teams had one main pitcher. He would try to start every game and go the distance. Substitutions were not allowed except in the case of injury (and even then, not always granted). So, when the starting pitcher got too tired (or knocked around) to continue, he’d have to switch positions with another player. As a result, teams had one player known as a “change pitcher”: a position player who doubled as a reliever.
For instance, the 1876 White Stockings (now known as the Cubs): The main pitcher was Al Spalding, who got the majority of the innings, but also played positions other than pitcher. Their change pitcher was Cal McVey, who was mainly a first baseman, catcher, and outfielder.
ACTQuote Reply
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ ACT:
Also worth noting: this system was long obsolete by the time Babe Ruth came around. Ruth was just such a good hitter that he could demand to play in the outfield. He was exceptional.
ACTQuote Reply
Aisle424Quote Reply
BTW: One of my favorite things about rummaging through old stats pages in b-ref is the unusual player names. Check this one out: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/n/nolanth01.shtml
ACTQuote Reply
wait so Conception gave up 5 runs in the 1st inning and then 2 hits over the next 4?
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
@ Mish:
Shut you right up.
ACTQuote Reply
@ ACT:
So Ruth was actually unusual for his time? I didn’t know that.
The pint still remains that the game has evolved as pitchers have tried more and more to get strikeouts. If one dude was always pitching, he probably wasn’t throwing 90, more like 50. It was more about putting the ball in play. As the game got more competitive, pitchers focused more on pitching and less on hitting, because that’s where the money was.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
Yeah, he was unique. By the 20th century, pitchers rarely played other positions. Cy Young, for instance, played 5 games at first base his whole career 906 as a pitcher.
ACTQuote Reply
Felix Hernandez through 4: 1 ER, 3 BB, 0 K, 1 HR. Huge disconnect between ERA and FIP here.
ACTQuote Reply
So it’s Al’s fault the Cubs are losing…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Napoli now has as many homers as the Cubs.
ACTQuote Reply
I can see LAA as a destination for Marmol this summer. Their bullpen sucks, and they consider themselves contenders. They can probably also afford his contract. I’m actually curious if given the new CBA if saving money actually has less value (I know that sounds initially rediculous) because there are less quality players hitting the FA market. Although I guess it gives one the freedom to add other contracts in trade, which is part of how I expect the Cubs to use their financial prowess.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
It’s awesome to have a team built in such a way that it’s actually not that stupid to have Mike Napoli batting 8th.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
It still is. As long as they have Elvis Andrus and David Murphy.
ACTQuote Reply
(dying laughing) @ the Red Sox failpen.
GBTSQuote Reply
Parmelee just got plunked in the head.
GBTSQuote Reply
@ ACT:
Specialization is inevitable, as guys battle for roster spots and their share of the money. Once baseball became popular and the money rolled in, it wasn’t good enough to be a pitcher, you wanted to be the BEST pitcher. It’s fine with me.
The one good thing about keeping the pitcher as a hitter is some of the strategy that you retain. I still think that no set lineup, 9 batters max per inning, everyone bats only once idea would be fun.
That’s how they’ll play in Joshball. Joshball will also be indoors. And there will be scoring rings/skillshots and otherwise no homeruns. And a clock.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
@ GBTS:
I like that Mauer is doing well so far.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
Yeah, but he’s also in the OBP>SLG club.
ACTQuote Reply
David DeJesus is the current acting president of that club.
ACTQuote Reply
And Fukudome is the treasurer.
ACTQuote Reply
@ ACT:
@ ACT:
Fukudome was like the shogun of OBP>SLG last season.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ ACT:
I like shogun better and I will stick with it.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I see Lilly is off to yet another one of his patented low-hit, low-K outings. That guy is like a wizard of BABIP.
ACTQuote Reply
Ted Lilly’s BABIP’s going back to 2007 are insane. His highest is .270.
ACTQuote Reply
@ ACT:
(dying laughing)
GBTSQuote Reply
Kemp ———> 10 dingers.
GBTSQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
10 of these guys? (the orange one with a mushroom on the top of his head)
WaLiQuote Reply
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/4/26/2975181/bryan-lahair-stats-chicago-cubs
MishQuote Reply
I am so sad. Today I come in to work and went to look at “JOOOOOOOOE MATHER!” at josh’s OBB, and I get this:
Josh, did the Category change from something to none? Or is work on to me… Does this mean I have to actually work? What if this happens to OV? I may have to find a new job…
WaLiQuote Reply
OMG, I’m dying without you guys.
AndCountingQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
http://www.happyplace.com/15610/the-worst-people-you-see-at-every-summer-music-festival
So true so true… I saw a naked guy get in a fight with cops. Taser vs Naked guy, taser wins every time
(insert Mish rant here)
WaLiQuote Reply
Everytime GBTS posts a picture, it’s like playing Where’s Waldo with Al. Or Where’s Aldo. Or something clever like that.
jtsunamiQuote Reply
Bubbles —–> Millionaire?
http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/tim-tebow-virgin-bounty/
GBTSQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
That’s pretty sickening, but good luck bubs.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ AndCounting:
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I had no idea why that’s relevant. I just like the Hope Monster.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Take it upstairs, because DJ was too busy watching the ball sail out of the park to post a new thread link.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply