I’m not exactly sure where this article is headed except for one general idea. As a result, it may be longer than anyone would like to read. It may also be shorter than most posts on this site. Either way, I apologize ahead of time. I won’t be disappointed if you don’t read it. My first inclination was to post this on The Hawkeye State where I also blog, but I’ve written enough about scholarships over there recently that I figured I’d annoy you guys with it. Also, this has to do with baseball and college baseball isn’t exactly a huge sport for the Big Ten so maybe it’s better to post it here anyway.
You’ve all heard about the talk with regards to the numbers of black players declining in Major League Baseball. This has been done while the number of Latinos and Asians have increased significantly, but we do still hear about how blacks aren’t playing baseball. What the articles fail to mention is a big reason why black participation in baseball has declined. There are of course many reasons, but one reason never discussed is the college scholarship.
Let’s switch gears and look at football quickly. The NCAA allows 85 players to be on scholarship at the same time. The college football roster isn’t much larger than 85. The 85 players who get a scholarship get full scholarships. In basketball, there are 13 full scholarships and teams have rosters between 12 and 15 players. If you’re good enough at football or basketball to get a scholarship, you’re going to get a full scholarship. The NCAA is looking at the possibility of making it a full cost of attendance scholarship, which would increase the current scholarship for the average person by around $3500. This has no chance of happening for a number of reasons that would require at least one additional post that I’m not going to bore you with.
As you can see with the two major college sports, there’s a full scholarship for each roster spot. For that matter, in football the road team travels with something like 60 players so there’s 25 additional players who have full scholarship than even travel to the road games. It’s always a big deal when you hear about some freshman traveling with the road team because it means he’s going to play. The reason there is a full scholarship for each roster spot in those two sports is that they’re only two that makes money. Iowa basketball has been down in recent years and it still generated the 87th highest profit among all men’s sports in the country (Iowa football was 15th). These two programs, the same ones at most universities, support every other program in the athletic department so the schools are rightfully going to reinvest in those programs. Without them, the athletic department closes.
Moving on to baseball, there is now a 27-man roster, but only 11.7 scholarships available. A good scholarship for baseball is 50%. There are very few full scholarships in baseball across the country. There may not be any at all. So you can see the disadvantage that college baseball has to the other major sports. If a child wants to go to college on an athletic scholarship and his parents are unable to pay the tuition, which is most families, the child needs as much of that tuition paid as possible. That’s not baseball.
Consider this: the 2009 CWS Champion LSU Tigers had two blacks on the team. They were both on full scholarship for football. That championship team had no blacks on scholarship for baseball. Not even a 25% scholarship.
The reason for this is relatively simple (money), but it’s not worth getting into here. White families are still wealthier than black families are more able to pay the large sums of money that tuition requires. That’s all I’ll say about that.
Most athletes, like most college students, need a lot of financial help. That help is there for football and basketball, but it’s not there for baseball and it never will be. Baseball doesn’t generate the revenue and profit that the others do and investing in those programs at the expense of the major two programs would be a disaster for all athletic departments. Only 22 athletic departments are self-sustaining. TWENTY TWO! Less than 15 turned a profit without help from student activity fees and other university funds. It would be pretty cool if more scholarships could be offered for baseball, which would allow more blacks to play, but the danger with doing something like that is that athletic departments cease to exist. Football and basketball support every other sport. There is the occasional sport at one school or another that turns a profit, but that same sport isn’t profitable at enough universities to sustain it college-wide.
I think Wisconsin’s hockey program turns a profit. Or recently did anyway. It’s one of the few hockey programs that turn a profit so without football and basketball supporting the many other hockey programs, UW doesn’t even have hockey.
It’s an unfortunate situation, but the tradeoff is worth it. I just wish more people writing about the declining number of blacks in baseball would talk about one of the major reasons why. It’s important because there’s not a damn thing that can be done to change it.
Comments
False.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]False.[/quote]Racist
MishQuote Reply
Maybe the government should force some of the blacks that choose footbal and basketball over baseball to play baseball. Then it would even out.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Racist[/quote]
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/6/15/2224992/detroit-tigers-news-justin-verlander-al-central-race#69706029
That fascist faget deleted my correct accusation!
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Maybe the government should force some of the blacks that choose footbal and basketball over baseball to pick cotton.[/quote]
Racist
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Racist[/quote]
So are you fixing my comment to reflect what you think or what you think I really mean?
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
Because what I really mean is…
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Maybe the government should force some of the blacks that choose football and basketball over baseball out of the Hall of Fame until more blacks play baseball. Then it would even out.[/quote]
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/06/24/2012-top-111-free-agents-nos-20-1/[/quote]Didn’t RTFA, but if the Cubs sign 15 to 20 of them they could contend. (dying laughing)
mb2111111Quote Reply
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/6/23/2239048/the-future-of-wrigley-field#70336423
That sound you hear is steam coming out of Alvin’s ears.
And (dying laughing) at people telling him that quote was untrue. What does he think the organization will tell a fucking blogger?!
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
one thing that i’ve always thought about amateur athletes picking sports is this- in the NBA and MLB you get guaranteed contracts. In the NFL they cut your ass at the drop of a hat. If I were a teen athlete who needed to focus on a sport I would go for baseball over football every time.
dylanjQuote Reply
I love the title these guys make up for themselves to feel important. You write for a motherfucking blog.
This is why I never go to that bullshit site and then get annoyed when I actually do click a link every 6 months. That site is for children.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]I love the title these guys make up for themselves to feel important. You write for a motherfucking blog.
This is why I never go to that bullshit site and then get annoyed when I actually do click a link every 6 months. That site is for children.[/quote]
chicks dig minor league contributing writers
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]one thing that i’ve always thought about amateur athletes picking sports is this- in the NBA and MLB you get guaranteed contracts. In the NFL they cut your ass at the drop of a hat. If I were a teen athlete who needed to focus on a sport I would go for baseball over football every time.[/quote]
That’s true, but you can also hold out for a bigger contract. You’re more likely to get paid what you’re actually worth in the NFL, and most kids prefer that.
The NBA provides the quickest path to millions of dollars, and MLB is the best bet for underachievers.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]So are you fixing my comment to reflect what you think or what you think I really mean?[/quote]
It could go either way.
MishQuote Reply
i dont know JG- you get paid what your worth for a year or two and then they cut you. Look at Nate Clements- he signs what was at the time the biggest deal ever for a CB- and about halfway into that 8 year deal he has to re do the deal and get paid much much less. Soriano on the other hand……….
dylanjQuote Reply
Who was it that had the pics of the crumbling support beams under the grandstand? I assume it was Tim but I can’t remember. I’m surprised it didn’t come up on that BCB thread.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]one thing that i’ve always thought about amateur athletes picking sports is this- in the NBA and MLB you get guaranteed contracts. In the NFL they cut your ass at the drop of a hat. If I were a teen athlete who needed to focus on a sport I would go for baseball over football every time.[/quote]It’s not that simple. When you’re a young ballplayer you’re thinking about going to college to play baseball to become better at the job and improve your draft ranking. If you don’t have the money to play the remaining 70% of tuition plus other expenses, you can’t do that. It’s a waste of time to even consider it. Nobody who is 8 or 9 years old is thinking about getting drafted in baseball out of high school. Even if you get cut in the NFL, you still have the education to fall back on. By the time the kid gets cut in baseball he may be 30 years old, have made a grand total of $120,000 over the last 12 years of his life, have no education at all, and be completely fucked the rest of his life. Most baseball players don’t make it to the big leagues. Most don’t ever find their name on a 40-man roster where they made $50,000 per year. Most of them fade away in A or AA where they made $20,000 or less per year.
If you’re a parent and you’re child wants to play professionally, getting your child to think about getting an education is important because it gives him something to fall back on when he doesn’t make it, which he isn’t likely to do. With football and even basketball you have to go to college so you’re getting that education. And it’s free, which is important for most families, but even more important for black families.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]i dont know JG- you get paid what your worth for a year or two and then they cut you. Look at Nate Clements- he signs what was at the time the biggest deal ever for a CB- and about halfway into that 8 year deal he has to re do the deal and get paid much much less. Soriano on the other hand……….[/quote]
Clements has to redo his deal because he’s clearly not worth his deal. Soriano gets paid no matter what.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
i’m not so much arguing about average players MD. But the elite ones who get huge bonuses just to sign are set for life and if they make it they get paid more imho.
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Clements has to redo his deal because he’s clearly not worth his deal. Soriano gets paid no matter what.[/quote]
yeah and thats why if i were a badass athlete i would play baseball over football
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Who was it that had the pics of the crumbling support beams under the grandstand? I assume it was Tim but I can’t remember. I’m surprised it didn’t come up on that BCB thread.[/quote]
Not the same, but it made me laugh…
.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]i dont know JG- you get paid what your worth for a year or two and then they cut you. Look at Nate Clements- he signs what was at the time the biggest deal ever for a CB- and about halfway into that 8 year deal he has to re do the deal and get paid much much less. Soriano on the other hand……….[/quote]Look at the talent curve in baseball though. Few players are even average. You have to be an elite player in terms of numbers to even be an average ballplayer in baseball. About 10% of your players are average or better. If there’s some young person banking on being one of those 10%, well, they’re probably too fucking stupid to go to college anyway so what the hell?
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]yeah and thats why if i were a badass athlete i would play baseball over football[/quote]
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Titans-RB-Johnson-ready-for-holdout?urn=nfl-365513
It goes both ways.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
MishQuote Reply
i see where yellon just wrote an article on why jim riggleman failed with the cubs. what’s next? yellon will tell us what went wrong with the college of coaches? the titanic what went wrong?
wpbcQuote Reply
Draft more kids out of high school, convince them that toiling in the minors is better than a bunch of stupid books.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]i’m not so much arguing about average players MD. But the elite ones who get huge bonuses just to sign are set for life and if they make it they get paid more imho.[/quote]Percentages are important. You’re the parent and you’re black. Your son wants to be a professional athlete. You make less money than the average person. You understand the value of a college education and obviously want your child to do well in school. If he’s awesome at baseball when he’s 18, fantastic, but as a parent you’re be irresponsible to bank on him being that good. So you want the college education. Well, in order to do that, you need money that you wouldn’t need in football.
Regardless of what you think, the fact the numbers continue to decline while scholarships in baseball have also declined as well as the roster shrinking from as many as 45 to 27 is actually reason to be optimistic about the youth’s decision-making process. They’re making the right decisions.
mb2111111Quote Reply
That’s another difference with NBA/NFL — if you’re in you probably play pro ball your first year, at least a little. With MLB, you get to sweat it out in the minor leagues for years sometimes. It starts to feel like a JOB I bet.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]That’s another difference with NBA/NFL — if you’re in you probably play pro ball your first year, at least a little. With MLB, you get to sweat it out in the minor leagues for years sometimes. It starts to feel like a JOB I bet.[/quote]
Yeah, that’s what I meant by the NBA is the quickest path to millions of dollars. Only the elite of the elite make it to the majors as quickly as most NBA players do.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
Hoping to get a Soriano contract or a signing bonus like Steven Strasburg is like hoping to win the lottery.
Not to mention in this article I wrote is the thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars that parents spend on their children who play baseball. They have multiple coaches to prepare them for college baseball and professional baseball. You can read each year about parents at the CWS who spent a shitload of money on their child that they wouldn’t have spent on football.
So that’s important here too. The reality is that you’re not going to get that contract like Soriano unless you’re unbelievably gifted or your parents spend a lot of money preparing you. And most parents will look at the odds and realize it simply isn’t worth it.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]That’s another difference with NBA/NFL — if you’re in you probably play pro ball your first year, at least a little. With MLB, you get to sweat it out in the minor leagues for years sometimes. It starts to feel like a JOB I bet.[/quote]I think MLB feels like a job to these people. Consider the number of people we’ve heard refer to their professional sport as work or employment.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Yeah, that’s what I meant by the NBA is the quickest path to millions of dollars. Only the elite of the elite make it to the majors as quickly as most NBA players do.[/quote]Makes you wonder if MLB doesn’t overdo it with the three(/four/five)-tiered farm system.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Yeah, that’s what I meant by the NBA is the quickest path to millions of dollars. Only the elite of the elite make it to the majors as quickly as most NBA players do.[/quote]Yeah, and basketball also costs the least amount of money to play, which is why so many blacks play basketball. Baseball costs more than any sport, which is why there are so few.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]I actually disagree with both of these. I think we said early on this is exactly how you should play it. No reason for the Cubs execs to pile on Wrigley and be hated even more when the media can do it for them. As for the money, the money will suddenly be there if the Cubs threaten to move and if Stark and his source are right, that’s where this is headed. There may be no money at all, but there’s a lot of people that can be fired to create money to keep the Cubs in Chicago.
The politicians will come down on the side of their constituents in the end. They can talk tough early and probably will, but the Cubs aren’t leaving Chicago. The city would kick the White Sox out of town before that happened. The Cubs make too much money for the city for that to even be considered.
I’m skeptical of Stark’s source, but if what he wrote is accurate, this appears the direction they’re heading and I think it’s perfectly played. Perhaps it should have been done 18 months ago, but it’s not too late.
There’s one thing I know as an absolute fact: the Cubs are staying in Chicago.
My guess is they’re playing this through the media right now to get the funds to rehab Wrigley like Yankee Stadium was and this means additional land being purchased nearby Wrigley that would allow for better facilities.
I’m OK with Ricketts if he is being the bully. He can be. There’s no way the city lets the Cubs leave so Ricketts should let them know this. That’s how other owners have gotten the money they “needed” to build a new stadium.
Unfortunately, Ricketts is still a dumbass so I’m not sure we can be certain of any logical path this is taking. (dying laughing)[/quote]Trust me. He’s going to piss off the wrong people with this move. These guys could give a fat shit about their constituents. They only care about what can line their pockets. They pacify their voting base by giving lip service to a pet cause, maybe throwing them a scrap or two, but they really don’t care. Honestly, and this will sound super pedantic, you should read up on the Democratic machine in Chicago. It works in a very particular way, and not like any other particular political system I’ve ever seen. And mostly works because the voters are uninformed and placated to the point that they vote for the name they recognize, to a great degree. It’s why bosses like Lamar, Stone, and Burke still have jobs.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Makes you wonder if MLB doesn’t overdo it with the three(/four/five)-tiered farm system.[/quote]But what else can they do?
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]Didn’t RTFA, but if the Cubs sign 15 to 20 of them they could contend. (dying laughing)[/quote]
That’s somewhat difficult considering that the limit of free agent signings is 3, methinks. But maybe they can just sign them all to minor league deals after a good brainwashing…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I agree to a large extent with what you said there, MO. I just think it doesn’t matter if he pisses them off. The people in Chicago will be more pissed off and WILL remember the names NOT to vote for if they are even partly responsible for the Cubs leaving Chicago.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]But what else can they do?[/quote]Yeah, it’s a sport where veterans and experience and intelligence (well, baseball intelligence, anyway) is highly valued, whereas in the other sports you can make up for not being the brightest with pure atheleticism. How do you appeal to the super athletic kids. Adult: hey here’s a sport where you use your brain! Kids: PASS!
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]I agree to a large extent with what you said there, MO. I just think it doesn’t matter if he pisses them off. The people in Chicago will be more pissed off and WILL remember the names NOT to vote for if they are even partly responsible for the Cubs leaving Chicago.[/quote]The politicians will bend to the people publically, but they can make shit messy behind the scenes.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]That’s somewhat difficult considering that the limit of free agent signings is 3, methinks. But maybe they can just sign them all to minor league deals after a good brainwashing…[/quote]They can sign 3 plus one for each Type A free agent that leaves free agency. The Cubs won’t have any of those. I also believe you have to offer arbitration in order to be allowed to sign the 4th, 5th and so on free agents.
mb2111111Quote Reply
Deleted due to lack of reading comprehension skills.
CormsQuote Reply
This is a very good article MB. I often thought that the reasons why most black kids played football and basketball is because with football, all you need is the ball, and with basketball, you just get a ball and a peach basket and that’s it. It’s not so easy with baseball because you actually need the ball, the bat, the gloves, and something like 17 other playmates just to have a good game going. Even with batting practice you need at least three or four guys. It’s simply not worth it. I think programs like RBI and others I’m forgetting about try to entice black kids to choose baseball, but like you said, I don’t see how a gifted athlete, unless he just absolutely loves baseball, would choose it over football or basketball.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]The politicians will bend to the people publically, but they can make shit messy behind the scenes.[/quote]I’m sure they can, but I’d bet my life if Ricketts eventually comes out and says they need a new stadium and the city has to pay in order to keep them, the money will be there. And if it isn’t, I don’t really care. I couldn’t care less if the Cubs are located in Chicago. I know a lot of you guys live in Chicago and do, but I have lived in Chicago since I was born there and lived there for about 4 months. The Cubs playing in Chicago right now would be the same to me as if they played in Siberia. As long as I can watch them, I just don’t care where they play. I have never rooted for them because they are a Chicago team.
mb2111111Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]This is a very good article MB. I often thought that the reasons why most black kids played football and basketball is because with football, all you need is the ball, and with basketball, you just get a ball and a peach basket and that’s it. It’s not so easy with baseball because you actually need the ball, the bat, the gloves, and something like 17 other playmates just to have a good game going. Even with batting practice you need at least three or four guys. It’s simply not worth it. I think programs like RBI and others I’m forgetting about try to entice black kids to choose baseball, but like you said, I don’t see how a gifted athlete, unless he just absolutely loves baseball, would choose it over football or basketball.[/quote]It’s generally why multi-talented stars do choose football over baseball. College is expensive and most families need some type of financial assistance. Most of them need a lot of it. The full scholarship is quite valuable while the 30% scholarship just means you’ll have slightly less debt than the average student.
LEAD is another program, but their focus is more about sending kids to college with some type of scholarship. These young kids wouldn’t be able to attend otherwise and they’re not usually stars, but it’s a good program.
mb2111111Quote Reply
thats a good point about getting the bigs Josh. Although high MLB draft picks are usually multi millionaires anyway. That probably helps sooth working in Boise
dylanjQuote Reply
Today’s sports memes:
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Probably overpaid, but overrated? Hardly.
BTW, ARod has accumulated 3.6 WAR already after posting 3.8 through 137 games last year.
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]I agree to a large extent with what you said there, MO. I just think it doesn’t matter if he pisses them off. The people in Chicago will be more pissed off and WILL remember the names NOT to vote for if they are even partly responsible for the Cubs leaving Chicago.[/quote]But the people whom Ricketts is going to ask for money know that, too. And so they know that Ricketts is just mouthing idle threats.
You want t5o know how to get public money for a stadium in Chicago? Look at how the Bears got money for the New Soldier Field. First thing they did was get the machine on their side. First. Thing. The first thing Ricketts did was piss those same people off. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Titans-RB-Johnson-ready-for-holdout?urn=nfl-365513
It goes both ways.[/quote]
true, but if the NFL owner is a real hardass and stands his ground the player will usually lose. Like Mike Brown with Carson Palmer.
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Probably overpaid, but overrated? Hardly.
BTW, ARod has accumulated 3.6 WAR already after posting 3.8 through 137 games last year.[/quote]
I didn’t make the meme 😀
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]I’m sure they can, but I’d bet my life if Ricketts eventually comes out and says they need a new stadium and the city has to pay in order to keep them, the money will be there. And if it isn’t, I don’t really care. I couldn’t care less if the Cubs are located in Chicago. I know a lot of you guys live in Chicago and do, but I have lived in Chicago since I was born there and lived there for about 4 months. The Cubs playing in Chicago right now would be the same to me as if they played in Siberia. As long as I can watch them, I just don’t care where they play. I have never rooted for them because they are a Chicago team.[/quote]I guess I don’t care either. Actually, Wrigley is a huge pain in the ass to get to. So now they’re the Chicago Cubs of Aurora? That’s fine, I can avoid having to park and walk/take a train.
binkyQuote Reply
I’d rather they just tear the old place down, buy up that chunk of Waveland and Sheffield and expand out. I kind of like taking the Red Line to the park (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I live in the shadows of Wrigley Field and I’d have no problem if they moved – whatever is in the team’s best interests. Plus it would make dealing with the neighborhood when I’m not drunk a lot easier.
MishQuote Reply
I guess as long as I can actually get to the ballpark and it doesn’t cost too much to park there or it’s next to the Blue Line or something, I don’t really care. I’d rather watch most of the games at home where I can control the volume and surrounding idiocy, but I do like going to the park every now and then.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]true, but if the NFL owner is a real hardass and stands his ground the player will usually lose. Like Mike Brown with Carson Palmer.[/quote]
Carson Palmer will either unretire and play for another team or retire and live in wonderful Southern California with his family and millions of dollars.
Mike Brown just lost a franchise QB and received nothing in return.
I’d argue that Palmer won that battle.
But I do somewhat agree with your point.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]thats a good point about getting the bigs Josh. Although high MLB draft picks are usually multi millionaires anyway. That probably helps sooth working in Boise[/quote]I looked through the first 5 rounds from last year including the two supplemental rounds and 46 players signed for $1 million or more. Let’s say 4 others did in the later rounds so there’s 50 players who signed for that much or more. How much does the agent get? 20%? Taxes are going to be very high on that. 50 kids came away with cash after taxes of something like $550,000 or more. Good money for sure, but certainly not set for life money. If we factor in the irresponsibility of these people considering their age, a good many of them wasted at least half of that on stupid shit within the first year or two.
1525 players were drafted in 2010. To get $550K or more after taxes and paying the agent you have to be among the top 3.3% of all players drafted. By the time you know if you’re good enough to qualify for that kind of pay day, you’re in your mid to late teens. There are 17 players Baseball America has from last year that the Cubs signed that includes the amount of their signing bonus. 11 of them were signed for under $200,000. Like at the MLB level, the overwhelming majority of players in the draft do not get much in terms of signing bonus. By the time you pay the agent and taxes you’re not left with much. Maybe enough to go to college if baseball doesn’t work out, but that’s about it.
mb2111111Quote Reply
again, i see your point i was more talking about being a Bubba Starling kind of player. For the vast majority of other guys if you can get a college education then go for it.
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]But the people whom Ricketts is going to ask for money know that, too. And so they know that Ricketts is just mouthing idle threats.
You want t5o know how to get public money for a stadium in Chicago? Look at how the Bears got money for the New Soldier Field. First thing they did was get the machine on their side. First. Thing. The first thing Ricketts did was piss those same people off. (dying laughing)[/quote]I think you get money from Chicago the same way the Cubs got money from Phoenix. That was the only smart thing that Ricketts has done since he took over and that started with media speculation. Just thought about that, but it’s actually quite similar. The city of Chicago won’t let the Cubs leave. If Ricketts threatens to do so, even if they think it’s an empty threat, money is going to be found. Chicago and its politicians cannot afford to lose the Cubs.
I’ll give Ricketts the benefit of the doubt on this considering how he played the city of Phoenix. There was literally no chance they’d move to Florida as we discussed several times, but he still got them to give up a bunch of cash they didn’t want to.
mb2111111Quote Reply
or Logan Mankins. That guy holds out every year and still doesnt get his long term deal. The franchise tag is insane in my opinion. I can’t think of too many other jobs where when a guys contract runs out they just force him to stay on a 1 year deal whether he likes it or not.
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]again, i see your point i was more talking about being a Bubba Starling kind of player. For the vast majority of other guys if you can get a college education then go for it.[/quote]Yeah, but by the time you’re Bubba Starling, a decision would already have had to be made. I’d be curious to find out how much Starling’s parents spent on teaching baseball to their son. Based on what other parents of stars have said, it’s going to be an enormous amount of money. And Starling is still quite raw. He has a ton of potential, but he’s also one of those guys who could simply be overmatched at the professional level.
I can see what you’re saying if you are in Bubba Starling’s shoes, but few kids are. Where the college scholarships for baseball comes in is for children and parents who make decisions much earlier in life than Starling will have to. He was an especially gifted athlete. Not only can he hit the ball, he can also pitch it at 95 mph, is one of the best QB prospects in the country and played basketball. Didn’t he also play a 4th sport quite well (track?). He’s a rare talent. His obvious decision is to play baseball because, as you’ve said, the money is guaranteed. I agree with that if you’re talking about decisions made at the age of 17 and 18, but that decision exists for so few players at that age. Aren’t there only two in this past draft? Starling and Archie Bradley?
mb2111111Quote Reply
I thought Dylan Bundy had a football offer as well but I could be wrong.
Or guys like Szuzur or F7. If you have the choice between big money in football or baseball I go baseball every time. For kids getting drafted outside of the 1st round by all means go to college. I know Boras is a big proponent of expanding the college baseball game.
dylanjQuote Reply
This “Starling” person sounds intriguing.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]I thought Dylan Bundy had a football offer as well but I could be wrong.
Or guys like Szuzur or F7. If you have the choice between big money in football or baseball I go baseball every time. For kids getting drafted outside of the 1st round by all means go to college. I know Boras is a big proponent of expanding the college baseball game.[/quote]I think you’re right about Bundy, but not sure. I agree about 1st round. I think we were talking about two different things. I was more talking about what decision you make when you’re younger, which also has to be along with the parents who will be on the hook for the sums of money it’s going to require them to play baseball at that level. Didn’t Mark Prior have a personal trainer at the age of 8? (dying laughing)
mb2111111Quote Reply
Bundy had a scholarship to play baseball at Texas.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Bundy had a scholarship to play baseball at Texas.[/quote]
was Wichita State not interested enough in him?
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]was Wichita State not interested enough in him?[/quote]
They weren’t Texas enough for him.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I guess I don’t care either. Actually, Wrigley is a huge pain in the ass to get to. So now they’re the Chicago Cubs of Aurora? That’s fine, I can avoid having to park and walk/take a train.[/quote]
I feel like I need to copy/paste our argument about public transit from a month ago, but I’m too lazy. (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
Wow – the Braves bullpen has a 2.53/2.70/3.02 ERA/FIP/xFIP and has been worth nearly 5 wins already (4.8), which is a whole win and a half greater than the next closest (Giants).
MishQuote Reply
Talking about Kosuke earlier today made me think about walks taken by the Cubs…
http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Cubs&pos=all&stats=bat&qual=0&type=0&season=2011&month=0&season1=2008
This should sort every Cub who played between 2008 and now, and Kosuke is miles ahead. Derrek Lee of course has been traded, and Geovany Soto is a distant second.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Talking about Kosuke earlier today made me think about walks taken by the Cubs…[/quote]
Your life is so exciting.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Your life is so exciting.[/quote]
It is what it is.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/06/24/2011-06-24_russian_woman_fagilyu_mukhametzyanov_dies_at_her_own_funeral_after_being_mistake.html
*joke about two deaths and communism*
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0622-rogers-cubs-white-sox-chi20110621,0,5282844.column
phil rogers with a sane article
dylanjQuote Reply
http://mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16176439
………?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]http://mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16176439
………?[/quote]
Didn’t watch. (dying laughing)
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]Didn’t watch. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Go balk yourself.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0622-rogers-cubs-white-sox-chi20110621,0,5282844.column
phil rogers with a sane article[/quote]Some mistakes in that articles. For instance, Pena is declared patient and Barney impatient, because Pena sees more pitches. However, Pena actually swings a higher percentage of the time than Barney. The difference is that Barney sees more pitches in the zone and makes more contact, preventing him from working deep counts (Fangraphs also has Pena as the more selective hitter in terms of laying off pitches outside the strikezone).
ACTQuote Reply
^^^ You’re thinking about this way harder than Rogers did.
MishQuote Reply
Has to be a bit, but still funny.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]^^^ You’re thinking about this way harder than Rogers did.[/quote]That and I spend way too much time on Fangraphs.
ACTQuote Reply
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitchers-outhitting-the-competition/
With some snippets about Big Z.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]That and I spend way too much time on Fangraphs.[/quote]
There was an irony in this statement based on what I just posted…
(dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I feel like I need to copy/paste our argument about public transit from a month ago, but I’m too lazy. (dying laughing)[/quote]I love public transit. When I lived in Chicago, I took nothing but, but coming from out of town from the south, the difficulty of getting to the game increases. Last time my wife and I took Amtrak up, stayed in a motel two nights, saw one game, took Amtrak back. Before that we had to find parking and pay for it and drive to it. When you’re used to Champaign traffic, Chicago traffic is a nightmare, and there’s no park and ride facilities coming up from the south like there are near O’Hare. I could by pass all that and go to Aurora or the western suburbs much more easily.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]http://mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16176439
………?[/quote]Started thinking about his grocery list. I remember a player like 5 years ago who pulled down his pants to fix his shirt completely forgetting a few tens of thousands of people were watching him.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Started thinking about his grocery list. I remember a player like 5 years ago who pulled down his pants to fix his shirt completely forgetting a few tens of thousands of people were watching him.[/quote]
I don’t suppose they called a balk then too.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Started thinking about his grocery list. I remember a player like 5 years ago who pulled down his pants to fix his shirt completely forgetting a few tens of thousands of people were watching him.[/quote]That was Steve Lyons back in 1990.
ACTQuote Reply
Hmmm…guess you can’t really call a balk on that.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I love public transit. When I lived in Chicago, I took nothing but, but coming from out of town from the south, the difficulty of getting to the game increases. Last time my wife and I took Amtrak up, stayed in a motel two nights, saw one game, took Amtrak back. Before that we had to find parking and pay for it and drive to it. When you’re used to Champaign traffic, Chicago traffic is a nightmare, and there’s no park and ride facilities coming up from the south like there are near O’Hare. I could by pass all that and go to Aurora or the western suburbs much more easily.[/quote]
I think there are Metra park-n-ride stations just off I-57 once you get north of Peotone or so.
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
Because I never listened to them in full, I’m going back and listening to the RedLetterMedia reviews of the SW prequels. Can’t stop (dying laughing)
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]When you’re used to Champaign traffic, Chicago traffic is a nightmare[/quote]You don’t spend much time on north Prospect, do you? (If that’s the case, I fully applaud the decision, BTW.)
uncle daveQuote Reply
Peter Falk —> Heaven
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Speaking of Champaign, I just got out of the county jail. What a night.
PFDQuote Reply
[quote name=PFD]Speaking of Champaign, I just got out of the county jail. What a night.[/quote]
Almost got dragged there a couple of times while in school, but talked my way out. What happened?
MishQuote Reply
The key to surviving county jail:
The clammy handsAct slightly crazy.Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Because I never listened to them in full, I’m going back and listening to the RedLetterMedia reviews of the SW prequels. Can’t stop (dying laughing)[/quote]
Those are pure gold. The Phantom Menace review is the best but they all are awesome. Totally spot on and hilarious.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]The key to surviving county jail:
The clammy handsAct slightly crazy.[/quote]false. its lube
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Those are pure gold. The Phantom Menace review is the best but they all are awesome. Totally spot on and hilarious.[/quote]
Finished it and was absolutely in stitches. On part one of Attack of the Clones. Brilliant stuff. There’s so much that I’ve said in the past that plinkett nails, but with much more snark.
MishQuote Reply
I was going to watch but they’re like an hour long and I didn’t have the time…why didn’t they just flat out do the MST3K treatment if it was going to be that long anyway?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I passed on it until today, RC, and I can tell you its well worth my time. Previously, when they crossed my path I was tangled up with other stuff. So I just saved the link and today I had nothing to do, so started killing them off. Well worth it it if you are as big a fan as you seem to be/
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Finished it and was absolutely in stitches. On part one of Attack of the Clones. Brilliant stuff. There’s so much that I’ve said in the past that plinkett nails, but with much more snark.[/quote]
How well do they hold up if you only barely remember the sequels?
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]How well do they hold up if you only barely remember the sequels?[/quote]
There’s footage and dialogue enough to remind you of each of the points he dissects. But it’s mostly hitting on the main points, and all the little minor stuff is nothing to miniscule. But I did catch some bits and pieces of the movies during Memorial Day weekend.
Here’s the link. I almost want to make an Unobstructed View post just about these things: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]How well do they hold up if you only barely remember the sequels?[/quote]
He puts in enough clips that you know exactly what he’s talking about.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mish]There’s footage and dialogue enough to remind you of each of the points he dissects. But it’s mostly hitting on the main points, and all the little minor stuff is nothing to miniscule. But I did catch some bits and pieces of the movies during Memorial Day weekend.
Here’s the link. I almost want to make an Unobstructed View post just about these things: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/%5B/quote%5D
The funny thing is, when I started watching them, I thought, “Oh, I’ll just watch one or two of these and then watch one or two later until I finish them.” I sat there clicking on every single one of them for the hour and a half or whatever it took to get through them all.
Don’t want to spoil too much, but the best part is where he asks people to describe the main characters without talking about their appearance or job title/position and nobody can do it.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]
Don’t want to spoil too much, but the best part is where he asks people to describe the main characters without talking about their appearance or job title/position and nobody can do it.[/quote]
Agreed, and this is the part everyone who rec’d this videos said clearly illustrates how the entire thing fails critically. It’s actually not a bad video for anyone who’s cinematically retarded in terms of how functioning character arcs and narratives work; it’s also somehow making me appreciate the originals more, possibly because Lucas probably could have royally fucked those up too.
I finished the two Phantom Menace ones (about 1:10 total) and just did Part 1 of 3 of AotC (30 minutes), but I gotta stop there for today. Had I not have to leave work shortly or host a BBBQ tonight, I might have watched them all straight.
MishQuote Reply
Is the extra B for BYOBB?
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Agreed, and this is the part everyone who rec’d this videos said clearly illustrates how the entire thing fails critically. It’s actually not a bad video for anyone who’s cinematically retarded in terms of how functioning character arcs and narratives work; it’s also somehow making me appreciate the originals more, possibly because Lucas probably could have royally fucked those up too.
I finished the two Phantom Menace ones (about 1:10 total) and just did Part 1 of 3 of AotC (30 minutes), but I gotta stop there for today. Had I not have to leave work shortly or host a BBBQ tonight, I might have watched them all straight.[/quote]
We know he would have since he released the “improved” versions with all the crazy Jurassic Park shit going on, the new Ewok song, and Greedo shooting first.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=uncle dave]You don’t spend much time on north Prospect, do you? (If that’s the case, I fully applaud the decision, BTW.)[/quote]I used to live off North Prospect, now I avoid it at all costs.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Is the extra B for BYOBB?[/quote]That doesn’t stand for Bring Your Own Bitches and Beers?
mb21Quote Reply
I agree with dj. Baseball is the one sport with a viable path to the pros directly from high school. I would guess that the lack of college scholarships is a small contributor relative to societal and cultural preferences.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Is the extra B for BYOBB?[/quote]
Yes. It actually is a BYOB. No typos here.
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=mb2111111]I think you get money from Chicago the same way the Cubs got money from Phoenix. That was the only smart thing that Ricketts has done since he took over and that started with media speculation. Just thought about that, but it’s actually quite similar. The city of Chicago won’t let the Cubs leave. If Ricketts threatens to do so, even if they think it’s an empty threat, money is going to be found. Chicago and its politicians cannot afford to lose the Cubs.
I’ll give Ricketts the benefit of the doubt on this considering how he played the city of Phoenix. There was literally no chance they’d move to Florida as we discussed several times, but he still got them to give up a bunch of cash they didn’t want to.[/quote]I’m telling you, Chicago is a completely different political monster. These guys can’t be bluffed by the FBI; Tom Ricketts will get chewed up and spit out. You can’t tak any sort of normal political reasoning and apply to Chicago. Voters in Chicago don’t hold politicians responsible for anything, and the rampant corruption is allowed so long as it’s discreet. If Wrigley falls or the Cubs move, one person will be vilified: Tom Ricketts. He knows, and the city knows it. This gambit won’t work. And even the politicians did buy, it doesn’t matter; the state is bankrupt, and the city isn’t much better off. Even if Ricketts could bully them (and he can’t, period.), you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]I agree with dj. Baseball is the one sport with a viable path to the pros directly from high school. I would guess that the lack of college scholarships is a small contributor relative to societal and cultural preferences.[/quote]
I’m not sure why you guys think that. Do you think these guys in the low minors are making a shitload of money? A college scholarship is worth about $100,000 assuming a guy goes 5 years PLUS the increased value he has on the job market. A guy in Low or High A is making $1050 per month for only 6 months of the year. That’s his salary. In short-season and other rookies leagues it’s $850 per month. In AA it’s $1500 per month and $2150 per month in AAA. If you’re on the 40-man roster it’s no less than $50,000 per year.
If by viable path to making shitty money and having to work at Wal-Mart? Yeah, no doubt. Viable path to making good money? No.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m telling you, Chicago is a completely different political monster. These guys can’t be bluffed by the FBI; Tom Ricketts will get chewed up and spit out. You can’t tak any sort of normal political reasoning and apply to Chicago. Voters in Chicago don’t hold politicians responsible for anything, and the rampant corruption is allowed so long as it’s discreet. If Wrigley falls or the Cubs move, one person will be vilified: Tom Ricketts. He knows, and the city knows it. This gambit won’t work. And even the politicians did buy, it doesn’t matter; the state is bankrupt, and the city isn’t much better off. Even if Ricketts could bully them (and he can’t, period.), you can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.[/quote]I’ll bet you $100 that the city gives Ricketts that $200 million within the next 18 months.
mb21Quote Reply
You don’t get to where the Ricketts family is without being able to buy politicians. If/when Tom Ricketts wants or needs to do that, he will. Without doubt. He will get that money. I don’t know that anyone ever doubted that. Ricketts can point to public financing stadiums in every other city and people will be sympathetic with him because most people don’t give a shit about debt.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ll bet you $100 that the city gives Ricketts that $200 million within the next 18 months.[/quote]
Payable in the form of Cookies BBQ sauce, of course.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ll bet you $100 that the city gives Ricketts that $200 million within the next 18 months.[/quote]Well, I don’t have a $100 to bet, but the only that could have happened is with a tax rebate plan, and the city has already shot that down. There’s no money to give. Ricketts bought a pig-in-a-poke from Sam Zell, and now he’s fucked with a crumbling stadium and a bad team followed by an apathetic fanbase.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
That Yellon article and discussion with Tim about Wrigley was hilarious. It would take a grandstand section collapsing to convince him that there are structural problems with the stadium.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You don’t get to where the Ricketts family is without being able to buy politicians. If/when Tom Ricketts wants or needs to do that, he will. Without doubt. He will get that money. I don’t know that anyone ever doubted that. Ricketts can point to public financing stadiums in every other city and people will be sympathetic with him because most people don’t give a shit about debt.[/quote]Ricketts is a bumbling, silver spoon-fed fuck. His dad built this whole thing. Ricketts’ own bond-trading business took 15 years to become profitable, in a robust economy. (dying laughing) And let’s also not forget that the tea-partying Ricketts family is on the completely wrong side of the political spectrum to gain any traction in a city governed by Rahm Emanuel.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]That Yellon article and discussion with Tim about Wrigley was hilarious. It would take a grandstand section collapsing to convince him that there are structural problems with the stadium.[/quote]This is at least the third time since 2008 that someone has taken on Al on this issue and gotten the same treatment.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
So, uh…what’s Kosuke doing in CF tonight?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Well, I don’t have a $100 to bet, but the only that could have happened is with a tax rebate plan, and the city has already shot that down. There’s no money to give. Ricketts bought a pig-in-a-poke from Sam Zell, and now he’s fucked with a crumbling stadium and a bad team followed by an apathetic fanbase.[/quote]As long as $100 bills exist, the state of Illinois will find that money. I hope you’re right, but I have no faith whatsoever in government not spending money. I have even less faith in them doing so when they don’t even have it. If the city of Chicago wants to keep the Cubs, if the state of Illinois wants to keep them, they have no choice. I’m guessing if Ricketts handed someone a $5 bill he could get that place condemned.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]As long as $100 bills exist, the state of Illinois will find that money. I hope you’re right, but I have no faith whatsoever in government not spending money. I have even less faith in them doing so when they don’t even have it. If the city of Chicago wants to keep the Cubs, if the state of Illinois wants to keep them, they have no choice. I’m guessing if Ricketts handed someone a $5 bill he could get that place condemned.[/quote]I bet they ease into it. A few articles here hinting at it. A mysterious visit by a special inspector. Get a fed involved somehow. Reference that bridge collapsing in Minnesota….
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Ricketts is a bumbling, silver spoon-fed fuck. His dad built this whole thing. Ricketts’ own bond-trading business took 15 years to become profitable, in a robust economy. (dying laughing) And let’s also not forget that the tea-partying Ricketts family is on the completely wrong side of the political spectrum to gain any traction in a city governed by Rahm Emanuel.[/quote]Tom doesn’t own the team, MO. His father bought it. It’s his team. Tom runs it. Does the Ricketts family have money? They’ll get what they want. The state of Illinois may took it up their ass, but the Ricketts will get what they want.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]As long as $100 bills exist, the state of Illinois will find that money. I hope you’re right, but I have no faith whatsoever in government not spending money. I have even less faith in them doing so when they don’t even have it. If the city of Chicago wants to keep the Cubs, if the state of Illinois wants to keep them, they have no choice. I’m guessing if Ricketts handed someone a $5 bill he could get that place condemned.[/quote]It’ll depend. If he shuts the fuck up, stops doing this through the papers, hires a local guy like Pat Ryan to run the thing and greases the right palms, he’ll get his money, eventually. But what he’s doing right now is all wrong. The problem is, he’s got no trump card. The city knows he can’t move the team after all the fanboy shit he’s spouted.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I bet they ease into it. A few articles here hinting at it. A mysterious visit by a special inspector. Get a fed involved somehow. Reference that bridge collapsing in Minnesota….[/quote]Yeah, if they’re headed that way I think they’re doing it right. I don’t think the city is as tough as MO does. I think they may take it bending over, but they will take it.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Tom doesn’t own the team, MO. His father bought it. It’s his team. Tom runs it. Does the Ricketts family have money? They’ll get what they want. The state of Illinois may took it up their ass, but the Ricketts will get what they want.[/quote]That’s what everyone said about the Tirbune’s plans for the triangle building almost 10 years ago. It’s still a parking lot because the Tribune fucked with the machine over the Soldier Field rebuild. I’m telling you, Chicago is a different place.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
As an aside, I think that the continued focus on the profitability of college athletic departments is misleading. The fact that so few are profitable should tell you something. Universities value their athletic departments over and above their specific profit and loss calculations. There is just no getting around it.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, if they’re headed that way I think they’re doing it right. I don’t think the city is as tough as MO does. I think they may take it bending over, but they will take it.[/quote]Okay. I’m telling you, I worked with these people. They do not take shit lying down.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]As an aside, I think that the continued focus on the profitability of college athletic departments is misleading. The fact that so few are profitable should tell you something. Universities value their athletic departments over and above their specific profit and loss calculations. There is just no getting around it.[/quote]Because a successful athletic department, especially in a FB or BB, means higher enrollment, and higher enrollment means more money. It doesn’t matter how much money the athletic dept makes on its own; it means much more money in many other areas.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It’ll depend. If he shuts the fuck up, stops doing this through the papers, hires a local guy like Pat Ryan to run the thing and greases the right palms, he’ll get his money, eventually. But what he’s doing right now is all wrong. The problem is, he’s got no trump card. The city knows he can’t move the team after all the fanboy shit he’s spouted.[/quote]
i disagree with that part. The city may think it’s unlikely, but even there’s a 1% chance it’s too likely to take a chance. We saw the same damn thing happen in Phoenix. They didn’t want to give them the money. Tom said we’ll move to Florida even there was probably a 0% chance of doing it, but just saying it and Phoenix paid up.
The Cubs are in a good position that most teams aren’t in. They have a national following so most of their fans couldn’t give a shit less if they played in Chicago or not. They’d surely lose some fans in Chicago, but they’d still have a lot of fans. If Ricketts plays it right, they wouldn’t even lose any fans in Chicago anyway.
What do you think the neighborhood is going to do if they start hearing threats of the Cubs moving? They’ll get out their own money and grease whatever palms necessary. Why waste your own money when you can get them to do it for you?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Because a successful athletic department, especially in a FB or BB, means higher enrollment, and higher enrollment means more money. It doesn’t matter how much money the athletic dept makes on its own; it means much more money in many other areas.[/quote]
Yeah, but it’s not just that. It’s an avenue for alumni to stay connected with the university, and all of the dollars involved with that.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]Yeah, but it’s not just that. It’s an avenue for alumni to stay connected with the university, and all of the dollars involved with that.[/quote]Oh, for sure.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]As an aside, I think that the continued focus on the profitability of college athletic departments is misleading. The fact that so few are profitable should tell you something. Universities value their athletic departments over and above their specific profit and loss calculations. There is just no getting around it.[/quote]Show the numbers then. I don’t deny it has an advantage to the university, but until someone shows me a number, I’ll use the ones available. Some of you work at universities, get them to do so. They know what the enrollment numbers are like after a good season in MBB or FB. I can’t do anything about it. You guys might. You’re certainly in a better spot than I am.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ll bet you $100 that the city gives Ricketts that $200 million within the next 18 months.[/quote]I’ll take that action. Not because I have particularly strong feelings on the matter, but more because I’m a degenerate gambler.
uncle daveQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]So, uh…what’s Kosuke doing in CF tonight?[/quote]Making room for Lu Montanez.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]i disagree with that part. The city may think it’s unlikely, but even there’s a 1% chance it’s too likely to take a chance. We saw the same damn thing happen in Phoenix. They didn’t want to give them the money. Tom said we’ll move to Florida even there was probably a 0% chance of doing it, but just saying it and Phoenix paid up.
The Cubs are in a good position that most teams aren’t in. They have a national following so most of their fans couldn’t give a shit less if they played in Chicago or not. They’d surely lose some fans in Chicago, but they’d still have a lot of fans. If Ricketts plays it right, they wouldn’t even lose any fans in Chicago anyway.
What do you think the neighborhood is going to do if they start hearing threats of the Cubs moving? They’ll get out their own money and grease whatever palms necessary. Why waste your own money when you can get them to do it for you?[/quote]There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell Ricketts can or will move the team. He’s got no leverage, thus this “the beams are rusting to pieces” gambit. It gives him a shred of leverage, but only if he can get solid data on just how shitty that place is. Which shouldn’t be hard. But at that point, the state probably tells him there’s no money to be had. And they’ll then ask him to get behind Madison and Emanuel on a casino plan, contingent on Ricketts making it a sponsor, in exchange for Ricketts getting his tax rebate plan through.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The alumni donations are included in the numbers I’ve been quoting anyway.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]There’s not a snowball’s chance in hell Ricketts can or will move the team. He’s got no leverage, thus this “the beams are rusting to pieces” gambit. It gives him a shred of leverage, but only if he can get solid data on just how shitty that place is. Which shouldn’t be hard. But at that point, the state probably tells him there’s no money to be had. And they’ll then ask him to get behind Madison and Emanuel on a casino plan, contingent on Ricketts making it a sponsor, in exchange for Ricketts getting his tax rebate plan through.[/quote]All Ricketts needs to do to gain leverage is release the following statement: it’s beginning to look like we may be unable to do the repairs to Wrigley we intended to do. States have been very generous to other teams in the past, but they refused us the money necessary. While teams like St. Louis, Milwaukee, Houston, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have gotten new ballparks in the same division as us, all we’re asking for is some help to rebuild the ballpark to the great benefit of the city. Without that, we have to consider alternatives. It could mean building a new park nearby or it could mean looking into alternative locations outside the state of Illinois.
That simple.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Show the numbers then. I don’t deny it has an advantage to the university, but until someone shows me a number, I’ll use the ones available. Some of you work at universities, get them to do so. They know what the enrollment numbers are like after a good season in MBB or FB. I can’t do anything about it. You guys might. You’re certainly in a better spot than I am.[/quote]We were told that enrollment increased by 3-4000 students over the past freshmen class after our NCG appearance. FWIW, my dept usually farms out 5-7 of the Ph.D candidates to teach in other depts, but we have so many more sections in our intro classes this coming fall, that any grad student in the dept not studying abroad is teaching in the dept, and the reflects and increase, just in our classes, of around 400 students.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Making room for Lu Montanez.[/quote]On the page I’m looking it (Cubs.com), it says Fukudome and Montenez are sharing Right Field. Fucking brilliant! Montenez gets playing time and Fuke gets to remain in his best position.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=uncle dave]I’ll take that action. Not because I have particularly strong feelings on the matter, but more because I’m a degenerate gambler.[/quote]I’m saying that the state gives Ricketts the $200 million by the end of December 2012. Deal?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]All Ricketts needs to do to gain leverage is release the following statement: it’s beginning to look like we may be unable to do the repairs to Wrigley we intended to do. States have been very generous to other teams in the past, but they refused us the money necessary. While teams like St. Louis, Milwaukee, Houston, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have gotten new ballparks in the same division as us, all we’re asking for is some help to rebuild the ballpark to the great benefit of the city. Without that, we have to consider alternatives. It could mean building a new park nearby or it could mean looking into alternative locations outside the state of Illinois.
That simple.[/quote]
This could be amusing as I expect to hear a huge guttural noise from Chicagoland as millions of Cubs fans simultaneously scream primordially and vomit (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]All Ricketts needs to do to gain leverage is release the following statement: it’s beginning to look like we may be unable to do the repairs to Wrigley we intended to do. States have been very generous to other teams in the past, but they refused us the money necessary. While teams like St. Louis, Milwaukee, Houston, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati have gotten new ballparks in the same division as us, all we’re asking for is some help to rebuild the ballpark to the great benefit of the city. Without that, we have to consider alternatives. It could mean building a new park nearby or it could mean looking into alternative locations outside the state of Illinois.
That simple.[/quote](dying laughing), you’ve obviously never lived in Chicago. I wish it were that easy to get shit done.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]On the page I’m looking it (Cubs.com), it says Fukudome and Montenez are sharing Right Field. Fucking brilliant! Montenez gets playing time and Fuke gets to remain in his best position.[/quote]Maybe Quade plans to hit Fukudome 4th, with Montanez in the 4-hole.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]On the page I’m looking it (Cubs.com), it says Fukudome and Montenez are sharing Right Field. Fucking brilliant! Montenez gets playing time and Fuke gets to remain in his best position.[/quote]
Uh..okay. Obviously they can’t both be in RF at the same time, so that’s dumb (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Show the numbers then. I don’t deny it has an advantage to the university, but until someone shows me a number, I’ll use the ones available. Some of you work at universities, get them to do so. They know what the enrollment numbers are like after a good season in MBB or FB. I can’t do anything about it. You guys might. You’re certainly in a better spot than I am.[/quote]
The numbers are right in front of you. Take all of the losses collectively accrued by athletic departments over any given period of time, and that will tell you the sum total of the value contributed to universities above their profit and loss.
GWQuote Reply
No photoshop, this is the actual screen capture:
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’m saying that the state gives Ricketts the $200 million by the end of December 2012. Deal?[/quote]Deal. I’m a sucker for a good prop bet…
uncle daveQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]No photoshop, this is the actual screen capture:
[/quote]
It just might work.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]We were told that enrollment increased by 3-4000 students over the past freshmen class after our NCG appearance. FWIW, my dept usually farms out 5-7 of the Ph.D candidates to teach in other depts, but we have so many more sections in our intro classes this coming fall, that any grad student in the dept not studying abroad is teaching in the dept, and the reflects and increase, just in our classes, of around 400 students.[/quote]I’m not exactly sure where you teach, but 3-4K increase at a major university is ridiculous. Enrollment doesn’t fluctuate that much. When I attended Iowa their undergrad enrollment was about 27K. It stayed there and Iowa had some of its worst years and began to improve in the late 90s when their football team was the worst it had been in 50 years. It’s 30K now.
Maybe a good program means something for some schools, but I’m not sure it means shit at most. I know ISU’s enrollment has remained the same. They had some good MBB teams in between.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]No photoshop, this is the actual screen capture:
[/quote](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder](dying laughing), you’ve obviously never lived in Chicago. I wish it were that easy to get shit done.[/quote]
While I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, MO, I also don’t think the city will just let Wrigley Field kill 2000 people under a collapsing grandstand because the Ricketts can’t pony up the cash… (dying laughing)
Or would they…?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]That Yellon article and discussion with Tim about Wrigley was hilarious. It would take a grandstand section collapsing to convince him that there are structural problems with the stadium.[/quote]
“The grandstand collapsing was just a hoax in order to get money from the Cubs. Those seats that fell on the third graders’ laps from 200 feet up were a slightly different hue than the normal upper deck seats. You can tell they weren’t even from the the park at all. The park is fine. I have a source. Nothing to see here.”
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]While I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, MO, I also don’t think the city will just let Wrigley Field kill 2000 people under a collapsing grandstand because the Ricketts can’t pony up the cash… (dying laughing)
Or would they…?[/quote]They’re letting public infrastructure in this country slip to third world standards. Why would they find the dough to make improvements on a private building given this environment?
uncle daveQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]While I don’t disagree with what you’ve said, MO, I also don’t think the city will just let Wrigley Field kill 2000 people under a collapsing grandstand because the Ricketts can’t pony up the cash… (dying laughing)
Or would they…?[/quote]No, they won’t. But then again, it was City inspectors that told them not to play with the nets, and turned around and approved the nets, so who knows. What Ricketts needs to do, is put together a team headed by Patrick Ryan, and he needs to put it out to connected construction firms like Walsh and Kenny that he’s taking estimates on a rebuild. Reach out to Barton-Mallow (they did the Soldier Field rebuild w/ Turner). Start putting a little money into some pet projects of the local politicians. Do it quietly, but loudly enough so the right people hear. Then you’ll start making noise at city hall.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=uncle dave]They’re letting public infrastructure in this country slip to third world standards. Why would they find the dough to make improvements on a private building given this environment?[/quote]
You presume that the government actually has priorities.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]This could be amusing as I expect to hear a huge guttural noise from Chicagoland as millions of Cubs fans simultaneously scream primordially and vomit (dying laughing)[/quote]They’ll do that, but if he frames it like that they’ll also be pissed off a the city.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=uncle dave]Deal. I’m a sucker for a good prop bet…[/quote]Especially one that takes a year and a half. I’ll probably forget so remind me when I lose. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]They’ll do that, but if he frames it like that they’ll also be pissed off a the city.[/quote]Chicagoans let the city privatize the parking metters and quadruple the rates. All they did was vandalize a few meters and vote in Daley’s virtually handpicked successor. That shit does not happen in Chicago, MB. It just does not happen.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I think MO is right, to a degree. It will not be that simple. But making a statement like MB wrote is the start.
Part of the problem the Trib always had is that Daley wouldn’t give an inch because he couldn’t take on the Trib directly, so he fucked with their baseball team. The fact that he was a Sox fan just made it more fun.
Rahm is going to find a way to make sure that Wrigley and the Cubs stay as is. That really is the best case scenario for the neighborhood, the city and the state.
But then you come to the problem of where to find the money. But there is ALWAYS money to be found. Always. We look at the debt numbers that existed in the 80s when it was a big fucking deal and we laugh and wish we could be in such great shape again. The only reason anyone is ever concerned with debt is because they know talking about it scares the bejeezus out of normal voters who actually have to, you know, pay their debts off occasionally before buying new shit. Politicians just have to find a way to justify sucking even more money out of the public funds, and Ricketts will help them all find that gumption to find the solution.
Joe didn’t become a billionaire by accident. He knows how to get shit done and it probably isn’t always pretty. This may come to the point where Joe has to pull a Virginia McCaskey and fire the son to get it done, but it will fucking get done.
My only question is when, and will it physically be too late to save Wrigley by the time it happens.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I’m just glad that the next two Cubs games I go to, I probably won’t get crushed by the upper deck (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]The numbers are right in front of you. Take all of the losses collectively accrued by athletic departments over any given period of time, and that will tell you the sum total of the value contributed to universities above their profit and loss.[/quote]That makes no sense. I know how much money the alumni contributed to the University of Iowa and every other university. It’s part of the revenue. It made up 30% of Iowa’s revenue in 2009. They donated $26,753,591.00 to the University of Iowa.
Am I misunderstanding you or something?
mb21Quote Reply
I’ve outlined pretty clearly what Ricketts needs to do to get this done. Doing it that way will work. Going to the papers and trying to get in a pissing match with Madigan and Emanuel is not going to work.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Oh, indeed.[/quote]
.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’ve outlined pretty clearly what Ricketts needs to do to get this done. Doing it that way will work. Going to the papers and trying to get in a pissing match with Madigan and Emanuel is not going to work.[/quote]
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]
[/quote](dying laughing), I think that’s Ricketts’ current plan. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
Am I misunderstanding you or something?
Am I misunderstanding you or something?[/quote]
Maybe.
Perhaps.
Universities subsidize their athletic departments because it comes back to them. If you want an estimate of how much comes back to them, it’s at least as much as the subsidy. (Btw, I’m not just talking about alumni contributions to the athletic department).
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’ve outlined pretty clearly what Ricketts needs to do to get this done. Doing it that way will work. Going to the papers and trying to get in a pissing match with Madigan and Emanuel is not going to work.[/quote]In all seriousness, what qualifies you to make suggestions about how to extort hundreds of millions out of a government? I don’t think anyone here can put that into perspective or understand what must happen for that to occur.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]In all seriousness, what qualifies you to make suggestions about how to extort hundreds of millions out of a government? I don’t think anyone here can put that into perspective or understand what must happen for that to occur.[/quote]Because I have seen first-hand how shit gets done in that city where building construction is concerned. I’ve been a part of it. If you don’t believe me, you can email me for names and dates.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]Maybe.
Perhaps.
Universities subsidize their athletic departments because it comes back to them. If you want an estimate of how much comes back to them, it’s at least as much as the subsidy. (Btw, I’m not just talking about alumni contributions to the athletic department).[/quote]I don’t know if that’s true or not. I’m guessing it may be true in some case, but not true in a lot of them.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Because I have seen first-hand how shit gets done in that city where building construction is concerned. I’ve been a part of it. If you don’t believe me, you can email me for names and dates.[/quote]it’s not that I don’t believe you. it’s that I question your assertion that there’s ONE way to get it done. There’s never one way.
mb21Quote Reply
I’m out
mb21 ————-> Kaufmann Stadium
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]it’s not that I don’t believe you. it’s that I question your assertion that there’s ONE way to get it done. There’s never one way.[/quote]There is in Chicago. Or don’t you remember all the stuff during the presidential campaign about “The Chicago Way.” It’s pay-for-play. It’s sheer and utter graft. If Ricketts wants that money, he’s going to have to throw his weight behind something they want. And in order to find out what they want, he needs to make connections with those who know. Hiring Ryan as a consultant would be a good start. Making some inroads at Walsh, Kenny, and Barton Mallow would be another. Find out who the city was going to contract for the Olympic stadium builds. Those were all sweetheart deals to connected firms. Make friends. Buy a few dinners. PIck up a bar tab or two. Yukking it up on the Green Monster with the Red Sox brass gets you nowhere in Chicago.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t know if that’s true or not. I’m guessing it may be true in some case, but not true in a lot of them.[/quote]
Well, then show me the athletic departments that lost money and were contracted. There’s really no other option.
GWQuote Reply
Oswalt ——–> DL (back)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
preview up http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/previews/series-preview-iowa-cubs-of-chicago-30-44-vs-kansas-city-royals-31-44.html
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]Well, then show me the athletic departments that lost money and were contracted. There’s really no other option.[/quote]
I guess all the departments in a university make money then because otherwise they’d be contracted. Some just need to be subsidized for the hell of it, I suppose.
There are football programs out there (non-elite basketball programs) that lose $2 million or more. Add in the other sports and we’re talking at least a loss of $7 million. That includes student fees and other contributions from the university. The idea that a sports powerhouse like that is gaining shit in enrollment seems absurd.
I don’t really care whether you think that specific program is making or losing money, but it sure isn’t my job to prove your opinion wrong. There are some numbers available. I’m not saying they’re 100% accurate. We know they aren’t, but I’ll use these numbers until you show me some other ones. I’m definitely not going to throw them out because you have an opinion. You work at a university, right? Should be pretty easy for you to do then. Let me know.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]There is in Chicago.[/quote]
You’re telling me the only way to get what you want in Chicago is to grease palms? Don’t buy it. Ricketts has the leverage here. The leverage is in the hands of the person who can offer the most or take the most away in this situation. That’s Ricketts. I don’t know if he’d ever be serious about it or not, but the leverage is his if he wants it and he doesn’t have to pay anyone a dime though I’m guessing his dumbass will.
Chicago politics are fucked up. I realize that, but let’s not go overboard here. Money is money and it doesn’t mater what city you’re in.
I don’t know how Ricketts plays this and I have as little faith in him as you do, but it’s his team and the city needs his team. The neighborhood needs his team. What he does with that leverage is anybody’s guess, but I’m betting at some point Joe takes over and bends those politicians over because he can. Every other sports owner has done the same thing. Chicago politics aren’t so different than money, greed and desperation have different results. I’m pretty sure we can expect similar results no matter where we’re at. These are acts of desperation and if Ricketts plays it right, he can do as he wants.
Will he? I doubt it, but I am at least more hopeful today than I was in the past. Still a longshot, but I’ll take it. It’s progress as far as I’m concerned. I hate the idea of the public financing it, but I’m a Cubs fan and I care much more about the Cubs having money to spend on free agents.
mb21Quote Reply
MO, I don’t believe for a moment that Ricketts has to sweet talk these assholes. He could stick a baseball bat up their asses and hand them a bag of money and he’s going to get whatever he wants. If I owned the team I wouldn’t pay them a dime, but that’s because I’d have no problem moving them to another state. If I bought them, I’d probably do so just so I could move them to Vegas. So I don’t care what the local politicians say or do. I don’t care what they think. I would have the leverage. Don’t know if Ricketts is willing to get it though.
mb21Quote Reply