OSS: That’s not quite what I expected.
Three+ up:
- Jorge Soler had a good day at the plate, going 2-3 with a single and a Chisenhall/wind assisted triple as well as a great throw to third base to take out the soon to be lead runner on the lone Cleveland RBI. At least one move today turned out to be right. FWIW I don’t think Heyward gets to that ball either, he would probably have been playing even deeper.
- Kyle Hendricks had the most efficient >1 strikeout per inning outing I’ve seen, even more impressive considering how he was stranding baserunners all night. The bullpen in general did a pretty good job with the number of innings that was handed them, but one run was all it took.
- Rizzo got the rally started in the ninth with a leadoff single, which was the biggest positive WPA play for either offense.
- Javy had a brutal day at the plate, but we still got out typical one incredible defensive play per game in this one, where Javy ranged over to get a ball that got past Rizzo and still managed to throw out a runner at first base.
Too many down
- What the hell happened? I get Cleveland not getting much loft on the ball against a ground ball guy like Hendricks, but neither team was able to take any advantage at all with the wind howling out in this game. I think the hardest hit ball of the night was the screaming liner off Montero’s bat in the fifth off Miller, as unlikely an outcome as you would guess. As it went in this game, it was hit right at an Indians defender. Soler’s wind-triple was the only one that I can remember that got much loft on it that wasn’t simply popped up. Tomlin should have been a guy the Cubs destroyed, I don’t get this at all. Except that baseball happens. Fack. The Cubs let one get away.
- Also, what the hell Joe? I sort of get bringing Montero in to try to commit to Miller early, but then leaving him in to hit rather than bringing in Almora doesn’t make a whole ton of sense. Even worse was leaving Edwards in for so long, including letting him give up the game winning hit to a lefty when Montgomery was right there in the pen. Well, Crisp is a switch hitter, but he hits RHP better than lefties, and Edwards isn’t exactly a long man. To quote GW, “At least if the Cubs lose, they can say they had their fourth-best reliever going.
- The Cubs were swinging all over the damn place last night against these pitchers, Bryant and Baez in particular. Ugh.
Next up: John Lackey faces Hans Kluber, pitching on short rest, at 7 PM CT tomorrow. We’re going to need some more beer for this one. They’re still a great team, but gotta get out of this hole first.
Comments
I’ve been varying degrees of irritated that John Lackey is a Cub for almost a year now, and at no point have I thought he’s pitched well, even when he’s pitched well.
Time for him to shut me right up for good (or at least until ST next year).
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Time for the Cubs hitters to stop swinging at the low outside breaking ball, the eye-high fastball, and start swinging at those pitches down the middle that they spent too much time watching in games 1 and 3. Time to stop failing. Just effing stop failing. It isn’t cute. It isn’t adorable. It isn’t admirable. I don’t care about their character, grit, effort, or anything other than winning. Win. Just win. Enough losing already. And I don’t care that they won 103 games in the regular season. I don’t care that they beat SF and LA. I care about now. Win now. This franchise has kicked my ass, and abused my hopes for far far far too long. No more. Win this year. Win this series. Win.
mebphdQuote Reply
4 down
Bill Murray is a lunatic.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
If the Cubs can’t beat this guy they don’t deserve a championship.
SKQuote Reply
JonKneeV,
I’ve always wondered why people thought he was so awesome. I’m not sure he’s made me laugh in 20 years. It pisses me off he gets so much attention from FOX when the Cubs are in the playoffs.
dmick89Quote Reply
I’ll take that over Dempster’s “comedy” routine any day of the week.
AlbaloneyQuote Reply
dmick89,
He seems like a generally nice guy, is a huge Cubs fan (and Chicgao sports fan), and was hilarious in his prime. In the past 20 years he hasn’t really starred in any movies (sweeps Garfield under the rug) so that may be why he hasn’t made you laugh in 20 years. I don’t think he goes looking for attention, it just finds him. He seems like he would prefer to be out of the spot light. I’m not a huge Bill Murray fan by any means, but don’t think he warrants any dislike either.
WaLiQuote Reply
WaLi,
I don’t dislike him. I just get irritated at the attention he gets just for being at the game.
dmick89Quote Reply
Is it time for Game 4 yet?
WaLiQuote Reply
Albaloney,
Sure, but that’s like saying you’d rather start Dempster over Bill Murray in a playoff game. Murray should be a better comedian. It’s his job.
dmick89Quote Reply
WaLi,
http://www.isitimeforgame4yet.com
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
OT: apparently there was a twitter war last night between the Oakland A’s official account and… Smash Mouth.
https://twitter.com/Athletics/with_replies
Have to say the A’s got the better of those exchanges.
(dying laughing)
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Soft spot for Bill Murray here even if he can be irritating. We are from the same neighborhood and I used to know his (much younger) brother Joel. I was even a terrible 14 year old caddy at the same country club he worked at.
That daffy duck thing was a tribute to Harry Caray though, right?
SKQuote Reply
If i was Joe, I’d be starting Lester tonight. I don’t think the Cubs have much of a chance of winning three more games, but they’d have a better chance of doing it if Lester started tonight. For some stupid reason, the Cubs offense can’t piece together back to back hits more than a couple times a week these days.
dmick89Quote Reply
Pretty poor tribute if that’s what it was intended to be. Why give him a tribute anyway? Why not mention some of the great Cubs players who never got the chance to play in a World Series? If people feel the need to honor someone, honor the ones who actually deserve it. That list of players includes Sammy Sosa, but I’ve given up hope this organization will do what’s right with Sosa anytime soon.
dmick89Quote Reply
You’ve just invoked the curse of the Fourth Horseman. Nice job. Cubs lose.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Bill Murray is the living embodiment of the fundamental conflict of existence—Man vs Meaninglessness. I appreciate his ability to point out the futility of the struggle and continue despite it.
Edited to eliminate hyperbole.
ceruleanQuote Reply
dmick89,
Yes. It was cringey. Dude just can’t play it straight.
SKQuote Reply
They will.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
WaLi,
Wes Anderson movies don’t count?
ceruleanQuote Reply
Cubs_in_6
SKQuote Reply
SK,
Out of curiosity, what neighborhood is he from? Which country club?
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo,
Wilmette. (North shore but the Murrays were not well off. ). Indian Hill Country Club.
SKQuote Reply
Saw some guy on BN talking about how Cubs fans in Cleveland were so much louder because real fans travel.
Or it’s because the Cubs did fuck all at the plate last night. I was there last night: the crowd was fired up when Hendricks got strikeouts and when the Cubs got out of jams. There’s just not a lot to get excited about when Josh fucking Tomlin is shutting down the best team in MLB.
This is why I don’t participate at BN.
PerkinsQuote Reply
But you read every word.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
SKQuote Reply
I’d probably do this too if I were Joe, but he has to weigh that against the high probability Lackey would hang him from the scoreboard before he could submit the lineup card.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
SK,
Bill Murray went to the same high school I did (albeit many years prior). Legend was he held the record for detentions.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Still can’t figure out why the Cubs were swinging out of their shoes out of the zone all night when they made their bones all year by not doing that.
I just don’t get it. You adopt an intelligent, patient approach that makes you one of the very best offenses in all of baseball, and then you totally abandon it against some soft-tossing mediocrity… why?
When has “swinging at everything, strike zone be damned” ever fucking worked?
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I generally find the content itself to be unobjectionable, but a lot of that site is aggregation of analysis others have already done. That and boob gifs in the comments.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Can’t wait ’til tonight, though, for the Cubs to readopt their “patient” approach, and look at strike three 2000 times again.
Man, I’m in a good mood.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I think the aggression (against Tomlin, at least) was intentional. His BB% this year was 2.8%, and he’s never been a guy to walk many. And he has a huge HR/FB rate while being an extreme flyball pitcher.
A guy who pounds the zone with less than quality stuff on a night with the wind howling out should be cake to take deep. It just didn’t work put that way because baseball is an asshole.
PerkinsQuote Reply
If this series goes six, it will be even more frustrating watching Tomlin shut this team down on short rest.
Why did this offense have to shit the bed in the postseason?
dmick89Quote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
(dying laughing)
dmick89Quote Reply
It’s not all bad news. The Cubs will at least be able to brag all next year about how they beat Trevor Bauer.
dmick89Quote Reply
They took him behind the podshed
berseliusQuote Reply
All true, but I don’t see why it means the Cubs should change their approach, which at its simplest form is “Don’t swing at stupid shit.” Suddenly changing course to a “Let’s all be Javy tonight” when your regular approach would destroy Josh Tomlin as well or better than any switch to aggressiveness is baffling. Josh Tomlin is trying to build the case for his own DFA every time he takes the mound. Maybe it’s just baseball doing baseball things when he miraculously has a good start, but I saw a lot of swinging at nonsense out of the zone last night. Just dumb baseball. And this team does not generally play dumb baseball.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
The Cubs’ offensive performance was frustrating but meaningless. James Shields held this team scoreless for 7.2 innings. The next day, they scored 8 runs, and the day after that they beat Chris Sale. Strange things happen in small sample sizes.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Also, while much has been made about the wind blowing out, I’m not sure the weather conditions were hitter-friendly. It was damp and cold, and the ball didn’t seem to carry much for either team.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
There were only a couple hit that had much of a chance to carry.
dmick89Quote Reply
Nah, I’m not chalking this one up to variance. Cubs played dumb baseball at the plate last night. They saw the wind was blowing out, heard that Tomlin gives up more than the occasional HR, and threw away their typical approach, expanded their zone, and handed the Indians a gift.
That said, as you astutely pointed out, whatever happened last night doesn’t mean the same thing will happen going forward. This team can beat anybody.
But I can’t agree that last night was baseball being baseball. Cubs blew it.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
(dying laughing) In Bauer’s defense, he was eight when that movie came out, which is pretty much peak age to become a fanboy of whatever is right in front of you. My guess is that a lot of people his age feel that way, but aren’t as honest.
I mean, how many people born in the late 70s prefer The Goonies to, say, The Great Escape or Laurence of Arabia, or whatever.
GWQuote Reply
Lot of high stress pitches for Hendricks last night, and a lot of runners on base. While most of the contact against him was on the ground, it sounded like harder contact than usual.
PerkinsQuote Reply
GW,
Tastes are supposed to evolve as one gets older, though. I was 16 when Episode II came out, and kind of enjoyed it. But I also understood fuck all about screenwriting and chemistry between actors. Now I find the movie mostly objectionable.
Though I’ll never not enjoy seeing a bunch of Jedi fighting a bunch of robots. (dying laughing)
PerkinsQuote Reply
Perkins,
That would be nice. But I think it’s overly optimistic.
To take another tack, I know that I will never enjoy a Cubs team as much as I did the ’89 Cubs. They are my “favorite” Cubs team, even though they were nowhere near as good as the Cubs are now.
GWQuote Reply
GW,
Fair. I’ll always have a soft spot for the ’08 team, even though last year’s and this year’s teams were objectively better.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Perkins,
There is/was a Dairy Queen near there I used to enjoy.
SKQuote Reply
Perkins,
Loved the ’08 team.
SKQuote Reply
I feel like as far as celebriteis go, having Bill Murray as your go to Camera Celebrity isn’t too bad. Every start that Murray gets in the “Camera Celebrity” spot is one less start that Jeff Garlin gets.
MillertimeQuote Reply
SK,
On a couple of occasions, my Latin teacher took the class there in lieu of learning because we were well ahead of pace. It was pretty rad.
PerkinsQuote Reply
SK,
I know it’s dumb, but the 2008, 2003, and 1998 teams are all teams I like better than the 15/16 Cubs. Not that I dislike the 15/16 Cubs by any means. 1998 because of the HR chase, and Kerry Wood being awesome. 2003 because I had totally dropped off as a Cubs fan until the playoffs. Even though they botched that double play in game 6 and lost the series, it really re-ignited my fandom. 2008 was great because it had so many of my favorite players.
MillertimeQuote Reply
Cubs winning % was .640
Postseason winning % so far is .615
Cubs win almost two out of three.
Having lost 2 out of the last 3, they are due to win at a about a .750 rate the next few games. Which is good, because they need to.
SKQuote Reply
They were a hell of a lot of fun. Good combination of expected talent and pleasant surprises. Like turning Ryan Dempster from a mediocre closer into a frontline starter, and getting great production out of reanimated Jim Edmonds.
It was also awesome feeling like every time Aramis Ramirez came up in a clutch situation, he’d deliver. He was a really fun player to watch.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Anyone else having trouble accessing Google Drive?
SKQuote Reply
Least favorite Cubs teams: 2012, 2013, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014, in that order.
MillertimeQuote Reply
I have a soft spot for 2014. Breakout seasons by Rondon, Rizzo and Arrieta. Samardzija made himself a valuable trade piece. Bryant was tearing it up in the minors. Pivotal year, though the team became unwatchable after they traded half their rotation and their two best hitters went on the DL. Also, that outfield was atrocious.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
I don’t think any of that’s dumb at all. I prefer 2003-04 to this current Cubs juggernaut. It was an awakening for me. I’d gotten used to the Cubs only surfacing from the murk of perpetual mediocrity to be good by accident every ten years or so, and the idea that the organization would one day look to be good long-term was something that I had long given up on. This current Cubs team is v3 of what was started 13 years ago. It’s certainly the best, most dominant version yet, but the first is still the most special to me.
Also, I loved Sammy to the bitter end. And I always tend to go bonkers for pitchers who miss all the bats. Watching peak Wood/Prior/Z was among the purest joys I had as a baseball/Cubs fan. Not even watching Bryant, Rizzo, et al, turn into superstars has been able to touch it yet.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Good point, the underrated move of that offseason was switching to Scotts Turf Builder Plus™ for all their lawn care needs.
berseliusQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
This 2016 team is the best team with the best players. Definitely the most fun I have ever had watching the Cubs. Prove me wrong.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Millertime,
2006 was the worst. 2004 the most disappointing.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Kipnis, on the Indians breaking the Cubs fans’ hearts: “I love it,” said Indians second baseman Jason Kipnis, a man who grew up outside of Chicago, dreaming of playing in a World Series at Wrigley Field. “I hope we break all of them. I hope we break every single one of them. I hope I come home for Thanksgiving, Christmas, the offseason, and I just want to have a smile on my face when I look at all these Cubs fans.”
I actually think that’s awesome. I would love to have a player with that kind of attitude on the Cubs.
MillertimeQuote Reply
Millertime,
I don’t doubt that they have it, but there’s also no incentive to say things like that when your team is overwhelmingly favored to win.
PerkinsQuote Reply
I can’t argue with you today.
PerkinsQuote Reply
cerulean,
I think I disliked 2009 the most because it seemed like everyone just became shitty, all at once. Bradley played ok, but something about him and Cubs fans brought out the worst in each other, and that whole relationship just sucked all year. Non-stop complaining about Bradley, Soriano, Ramirez, Fukudome, Soto, Marmol, Zambrano, Harden. Just a really crappy experience.
MillertimeQuote Reply
Millertime,
Derrek Lee, though.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
cerulean,
Agreed. I love everything and everyone on this team (except lackey, who I consistently want to punch in the face)
WaLiQuote Reply
But, yes, 2009 was an overall miserable experience.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
I don’t even dislike Lackey. This team is awesome.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
It’s not that I dislike him, it’s just his face. His face is so punchable
WaLiQuote Reply
Something I read recently referred to it as resting dickface (dying laughing)
berseliusQuote Reply
My only problem with Lackey is that sometimes he over-emotes when he should be getting into position, e.g. to cover a base. He needs to take up meditation or something.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Millertime,
I’m fine with Kipnis’ comments. I’m also fine with Cubs fans greeting him with a large round of boos.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Waiting for the squadron announcement like
berseliusQuote Reply
I think Hammel is the only person on this team I’d come close to disliking, and I don’t dislike him. It’s just annoying to see people bitch about being taken out of games when their performance doesn’t warrant being left in.
PerkinsQuote Reply
berselius,
I want to see a different cookie gif later tonight
WaLiQuote Reply
To-day’s base ball squadron
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Zobrist
Willson
Russell
Heyward
Baez
Lackey
berseliusQuote Reply
*guy peeking behind brick wall* I wouldn’t have minded Coghlan in LF and Baez on the bench
berseliusQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
I think he needs to take medication.
dmick89Quote Reply
Lackey earned my respect with his willingness to come out of the bullpen in those extra-inning games. According to Maddon, he went to the pen with no hesitation whatsoever. His DL stint may have been partly a result of all those extra warm-up pitches he threw.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
I don’t really care, but why would breaking the hearts of millions be so enjoyable? What should be enjoyable is winning and it should be unfortunate that so many have their hearts broken. Athletes are fucking morons though and Kipnis is no exception.
It’s just a dumb thing to say. It’s a dumb thing to think about to be honest. Why the fuck would he care about Cubs fans at this point?
dmick89Quote Reply
Don’t tell me what to do.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
That’s all bullshit. Kipnis cried when the Cubs won the pennant. Now he’s overcompensating so Cleveland fans don’t think he’s a Judas.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
Yeah, he’s signaling his loyalty. I also don’t take his comments completely seriously. Sometimes it’s fun to play the villain.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
I think a lot of the personality traits that bother people about Lackey will also bother them about Lester in a few years. Except the resting dickface; that’s all Lackey.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Perkins,
I think the two are very similar.
dmick89Quote Reply
He’s likely caught some heat for his pro-Cubs-related comments, not unlike a guy saying nice things about his ex-girlfriend, and then having to turn and reassure his current girl that not only did he not mean any of it, but he hates that bitch.
I fully expect Kipnis to rush the field with the rest of the Cubs if they pull this out.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
The Ringer MLB Show: 39: The World Series so far and the Cubs’ Mental Skills
https://overcast.fm/+GoS_34rxI/21:28
ceruleanQuote Reply
Also, Kipnis comes from a family of rabid Cubs fans, so my guess is he was, in addition to hiding where his true loyalty lies, also trolling them.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Didn’t Coghlan look terrible against Hans on Tuesday? I get matchups and frustration with Javy, but meh.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I don’t think he’s hiding his “true loyalty.” He’s a member of a team, and he worked hard to help get his team as far as he has. I have no doubt he really wants to win this thing. But I’m sure he is trolling to an extent, which is why I said, “it’s fun to play the villain.”
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Because it would mean the Indians had won the series. I don’t think he should actively try to break fans hearts, but I don’t think he should feel bad about it either.
MillertimeQuote Reply
So Jose Fernandez had cocaine and lots of alcohol in his system when he died. Anybody here up for vilifying him like Taveras? Did he reap his just reward? Did he deserve to die?
ceruleanQuote Reply
Fuck that shit. Neither of those guys deserved to die.
berseliusQuote Reply
Millertime,
He shouldn’t feel bad about it. That would be about as stupid as anything, but say you want to win. Do you think there’s a single Cubs player who gives a single fuck about any Indians fan? I sure hope not because that would be fucking stupid. I hope all the Cubs players want to beat the Indians and give zero fucks how that makes the Indians fans feel.
dmick89Quote Reply
Just seems like the worst kind of matchup for Javy at the plate, the guy has some of the best breaking stuff in baseball.
berseliusQuote Reply
cerulean,
As someone who has had a lot of cocaine and alcohol in his system at various points, no. Neither deserved to die.
dmick89Quote Reply
berselius,
The same can be said about Russell.
ceruleanQuote Reply
I was being facetious with that part.
Same with the expectation that he’d rush the field with the Cubs if they were to win.
He was a big-time Cubs fan for most of his life, tho. And he did weep when they won the pennant.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Still though, I probably would have gone with
Fowler
Bryant
Rizzo
Zobrist
Coghlan
Willson
Russell
Heyward
Lackey
berseliusQuote Reply
Jose wasn’t driving the boat, if I’m not mistaken. Shitty situation all around, whatever the case may be.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Did we do that with Taveras here?
I seem to recall everybody here being sad about it. BN might have been gloat-y and judge-y. But that’s BN, whose comments section is the Khloe Kardashian of the Cubosphere to BCB’s Kim.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
dmick89,
Agreed 100%. And I would bet that Fernandez was driving the boat too—it was his boat. It’s almost exactly the same as Taveras, except that instead of killing his girlfriend, it was “just” two friends.
The point of the provocative question is that it is okay to tolerate others honoring the life of a friend even if they died by their own hand, intentionally, idiotically, or otherwise.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I was…less than generous about Taveras. A good friend of mine got killed by a drunk driver at 19, so I have a pretty short fuse about that.
PerkinsQuote Reply
There is no way to tell who was driving, but the report said it was Jose’s boat. If he wasn’t driving at that moment, he almost certainly was driving during the excursion.
ceruleanQuote Reply
There’s legit reason to be angry with Taveras in that sort of situation, but that’s different from the gloating and really nasty stuff I seem to recall seeing in other comment sections. One can be angry and refrain from the “They got what was coming to them and I’m glad it happened” kind of sentiment.
If J-Fer was driving the boat, he did a dumbfuck thing that cost him his life and the lives of his friends. If someone else was driving, then they did a dumbfuck thing that cost lives. I don’t think any of them deserved to die for the coke and booze, but that doesn’t change how reckless and foolish they were.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
That’s basically my feelings on the matter(s).
PerkinsQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
We are all reckless fools some of the time. We are probably more likely to die or cause the death of others during these moments. That’s fucking life.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Sorry to bring the thread down.
How ’bout them Cubs?
Fuck.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Assuming the passengers are adults, they are responsible for their own actions (getting in a car with a drunk driver or in a boat with someone on cocaine). They know the risk.
dmick89Quote Reply
On a lighter note, I don’t think Joe West is calling balls or strikes tonight or tomorrow. With Lackey and Lester pitching, that’s a plus.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Yep. I can think of at least a couple of occasions when I was younger where I was being a irresponsible dipshit and could have caused at minimum lifelong harm to someone else.
So while I’m not pleased Fernandez either exhibited or was the victim of fatally poor judgment, I also wish he’d caught the breaks the rest of us have gotten and was still alive and well today.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
I disagree. They are probably as blind to the risk as the others.
And more fundamentally, we cannot know the risk of things beforehand. We can guess with greater or lesser degrees of accuracy, but guesswork is not knowledge.
ceruleanQuote Reply
One last tidbit on foolishness and Fernandez. He jumped out of a boat to save someone who had fallen into the ocean during his final and successful escape attempt from Cuba. He ended up saving his mother’s life. That reckless disregard for one’s own mortality is the same kind of reckless disregard that led to his death. It’s a kind of mental acuity that athletes hone because its a necessary requirement for success.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Perhaps they don’t know the degree to which they are at risk, but I don’t buy that adults aren’t aware of the dangers of drinking and driving or operating any motorized vehicle under the influence. I’m willing to cut the passengers on Fernandez’s boat more slack because boating and getting intoxicate have gone together quite well for a long time. Still, they are responsible for their own actions.
dmick89Quote Reply
game thread up: http://obstructedview.net/world-series-game-4-indians-cubs-game-thread/
dmick89Quote Reply