At this point, everyone knows that Montero is out.
Miguel Montero designated for assignment by #Cubs. Caratini to be called up
— Carrie Muskat (@CarrieMuskat) June 28, 2017
We'd be remiss without mentioning the fact that Montero hit a grandslam in Game 6 on the NLCS, and that he hit the go-ahead-by-2 RBI in Game 7 of the World Series (which the Cubs won. the Cubs won the World Series). He's also been a very solid hitter for the Cubs in part-time duty this year. It's obvious to everyone that he wants to start somewhere, doesn't get along with Joe Maddon, and now didn't get along with pitchers or Rizzo. He also threw out 0 of 31 basestealers this year, which is Myles-esque.
Victor Caratini is very worthy of the shot. He's hit at every level, carrying a .343/.384/.539 line into today's games with Iowa. I'd expect him to walk a little (though below average), strike out at an average clip, and have a little bit of power. A solid option for a backup catcher (and he's a switch-hitter, which is a nice bonus).
The James Russell/Emilio Bonifacio trade just continues to pay dividends.
Comments
in other news, congrats to myles and the whole OV crew on winning this very prestigious award
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
That was Zobrist. Miggy’s insurance RBI was nice, though.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
You are right.
mylesQuote Reply
On the buy/sell question, my hope is that they do both. You won’t recoup all of your lost assets from a trade for, say, a pitcher with multiple years of control by then turning around and dumping Lackey, but you can soften the blow. I like that idea because it keeps you in the chase in a very weak division and helps fill roster holes for ’18 and beyond but it doesn’t completely lay the system bare. (That, and I’d no longer have to look at John Lackey.)
Easier said than done, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there was movement in both directions this year.
Is DFAing your backup catcher the new firing your hitting coach?
uncle daveQuote Reply
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/06/28/we-now-have-photographic-proof-that-tom-ricketts-and-ted-cruz-are-different-people/
(dying laughing)
PerkinsQuote Reply
Though Miggy’s RBI ended up being the margin of victory.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Perkins,
Jesus, that’s disturbing.
uncle daveQuote Reply
I can get behind the buy/sell approach if it’s truly an exchange of long-term assets (trading Jimenez for a cost-controlled pitcher). I look at 2018 and I get pretty worried that this team is going to have to get very creative or spend a shitload in free agency to fill out the team. And when I say sell, I wouldn’t touch anyone like Baez or Russell or Schwarber unless I got an absolute embarrassment of riches. I don’t think Lackey serves any purpose on this team, and every dollar he costs the 2017 Cubs is a dollar the 2018 Cubs can’t spend. Arrieta has some value, though if you want to make the argument that he’s a necessary part of a 2017 WS team and that a 2017 WS team is a fair possibility, I’m willing to listen. Edwards isn’t as good as Davis, but he’s a reasonable facsimile, and Davis is EXACTLY the pitcher that teams overpay for at the deadline (see the Cubs/Chapman trade). Jon Jay is another person that isn’t on the team in 2018, and could easily net a decent-ish prospect (projectable arm, not a top 100 type by any stretch). In my opinion, these are exactly the types of players the Cubs should shed to make 2018 slightly easier (and 2019, when the Cubs back up the truck to get Bryce Harper).
mylesQuote Reply
myles,
I’d be on board selling guys like Lackey and Jon Jay. Specifically Jay, his replacements are already on the roster in Ian Happ, Almora, and Zagunis.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
Perkins,
One’s a rich asshole, and the other is trying to take health insurance away from millions to keep more money in the pockets of other rich assholes. Can you tell which is which?
EdwinQuote Reply
myles,
Yeah, I think that the idea is to keep the core intact as much as you can. If you keep the true core of the team together — Contreras, Rizzo, Baez, Russell, Bryant, Schwarber, Heyward, a couple of pitchers — you have a team that can compete in the 2017 version of the NL Central. The moves you want to make in order to fill out the roster are moves for 2018 and beyond, imo.
As for Davis, on the one hand he’s the type of guy you want in a playoff scenario. On the other hand, the playoffs let you get weird with your bullpen usage. If you bring in another starter that you feel good about, you can slot a guy like Montgomery into a multi-inning role and make up for losing Davis (or Uehara, or whoever). And we know that Montgomery is a Proven Closer in playoff situations, right? I’d go out on a limb and say I’d be more comfortable trading Davis than Jimenez under the right circumstances. I wouldn’t trade him without a corresponding move to otherwise bolster the pitching staff, though.
Is the Harper thing real, or are folks just wishcasting? I can’t say I’ve followed it too closely.
uncle daveQuote Reply
Sounds like Victor Carrot might not be a very good defensive Catcher.
EdwinQuote Reply
Edwin,
To his credit, Ricketts recognized all the operations people on the jumbotrons before World Series game 3 and had them take a lap around tge field so all the fans could give them a cheer. He’s probably an asshole, but he knows something about running a good organization.
As to Cruz, if someone had maligned my wife as Trump did to his, you can bet I wouldn’t be working the phone banks for that guy. He’s a spineless weasel.
PerkinsQuote Reply
I think it’s mostly speculation. I’m sure Harper would love to play with Bryant, and vice versa, but I doubt either takes a pay cut for it.
EdwinQuote Reply
Harper things is 10% he wants to play with Kris Bryant and 90% wishcasting.
MylesQuote Reply
Edwin,
Good thing the club will be printing money by then, I guess…
uncle daveQuote Reply
Yes, but without that extra run, the defensive indifference play that set up the Davis RBI single wouldn’t have happened…
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Also a possibility. I’m disappointed (though not necessarily surprised) this is how his time in a Cubs uniform ends. I was at NLCS game 1 last year, and his pinch hit grand slam was legitimately the most thrilling thing I’ve ever seen at a baseball game. (Well, that and the double play to end game 6).
PerkinsQuote Reply
I watched that Dodgers game with my mom. That pinch hit grand slam was incredible. I’ll remember that game over the way he left the team.
EdwinQuote Reply
Yeah, I doubt the Cubs even sign Bryant once he’s a free agent. I’m sure they’d love to sign Harper, but I don’t see them spending the money to do it.
dmick89Quote Reply
Having both of them at market value would probably be close to a billion dollars in future commitments.
PerkinsQuote Reply
In 2008, with the whole Financial Crisis/Housing Bubble issue, did that end up having an effect on the baseball offseason in terms of team spending/contracts? I assume in the next 3-4 years there’s going to be some kind of economic disaster, and with who’s currently in charge, I don’t anticpate a good response. I’m wondering how that might affect things like contract extentions.
EdwinQuote Reply
Edwin,
I don’t think it did overall, but it probably affected owners differently. The cost of the win seemed to remain constant for a few years, but that’s about it.
dmick89Quote Reply
Didn’t the Mets owners lose big in Madoff’s Ponzi scheme?
dmick89Quote Reply
Perkins,
I’d be surprised if Harper doesn’t get more than $450 million assuming his performance doesn’t suffer next year. Even if it did, he’s still getting a ridiculous amount.
I was wondering, would you rather pay Harper $75 million for one year or $450 for ten years?
dmick89Quote Reply
I’d rather do $450 for 10 years, because I think you could unload Harper at 9/$405 in 2020. That’s cheating, though. I think the only way Harper signs anywhere is if he has something like 10/425, but with a player opt out after years 2-8 or something and full no trade clause.
If I had to be stuck with the contract, I’d probably still take 10/450, but really only because you can “easily” plan on it going forward. I think he’ll still be extremely valuable until around 2026, and then he’ll only be pretty valuable.
MylesQuote Reply
Myles,
I’d probably do the huge multi year contract too. If the so-called window is only a year, why sign Harper for $75 million when you can probably come close to the win total he’d provide for much less money? A player like Harper is always going to have a lot of trade value so it you need the money there will be plenty of teams to talk to.
dmick89Quote Reply
I was wondering about that. Can there be more than one opt-out in the contract? I assume there can be.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
I think Heyward has an opt out for after 2018 or after 2019.
EdwinQuote Reply
I think the Multi-year always makes more sense, especially if you can backload the deal heavily.
EdwinQuote Reply
Man, that White House pic with the team and Trump…ugh. I get it, it’s a big deal to go to the White House, regardless of politics, but still. Gross.
EdwinQuote Reply
Edwin,
They already went to the WH after the WS. I don’t understand.
JKVQuote Reply
It would be an even bigger deal if they didn’t go. I hope the Warriors decline an invite and I don’t even give a shit about basketball.
dmick89Quote Reply
JKV,
They’re in DC.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
And look at who the veterans are: Anthony Rizzo, Jon Lester, John Lackey, Ben Zobrist and I’m sure there are some other white guys to add to this list.
dmick89Quote Reply
He does. He can opt out either after year 3 or 4 of his contract.
PerkinsQuote Reply
yep. it really handcuffed the team for a while afterwards too (maybe still to this day, haven’t checked in a while).
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
To-day’s base ball squadron
Rizzo
Bryant
Happ
Contreras
Jay
Baez
Almora
Lackey
Zagunis
BerseliusQuote Reply
That escalated quickly.
ceruleanQuote Reply
I say just extend Bryant at whatever the arbitration prorated version of the $500M/13 offered to Harper. It’s the same agent—they are both excellent players who will probably be worth the same over the lifetime of their contracts, and neither of them would have bragging rights about who got the biggest contract because they both would be the biggest. Works for me.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Crap.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
.500
dmick89Quote Reply
Ugh.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
The Cubs would probably be better if they got rid of Lackey.
dmick89Quote Reply
A rare wild pitch.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
They should have kept Miggy and given him Lackey’s rotation spot.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Contreras sucks at blocking pitches.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Oy.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
You can’t be that cautious behind in the count with the bases loaded, even with Harper batting.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Just hoping Lackey trashes our org tonight.
MylesQuote Reply
The good news is that there’s probably close to a 40% chance the Cubs can begin their extended one game winning streak tomorrow.
dmick89Quote Reply
I wonder if Zug will ever get a Major League hit.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Willson!
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
It’s not a Cubs game without at least one wild pitch and one gidp.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
This game is going about as well as could be expected: The Cubs scored more than one run.
ceruleanQuote Reply
FTR—I am all for dealing Lackey at the deadline.
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
The surprising part is that they scored more than one run before getting to the bullpen.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
He’s a white guy from Texas, not a tan guy from south of Texas. He’d probably end up getting promoted.
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
(dying laughing)
dmick89Quote Reply
http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2017/06/28/carl-edwards-jr-s-reason-for-skipping-the-cubs-visit-to-the-white-house-is-interesting/
(dying laughing) Edwards might be my favorite Cub.
PerkinsQuote Reply
God damn it, this game keeps getting worse.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
OK, now it’s time to sell.
uncle daveQuote Reply
Bryant looked like he was in serious pain.
Sell.
MylesQuote Reply
If Kris has to miss significant time, I might change my mind on the Cubs becoming sellers are the deadline.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Wow, looks as if everyone is on the same page here.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Y’all are too young to remember 1985, but…
uncle daveQuote Reply
You were what, 64 then?
MylesQuote Reply
Perkins,
Here’s the reason I don’t read much mlb news anymore. First comment.
dmick89Quote Reply
Myles,
WHAT? SPEAK UP, SONNY.
uncle daveQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo er al.,
Can’t comment on this dumpster fire, so back to Buy/Sell. I’ve been telling the kid that Zo should be on the block. Happ/Baez are already here. If Zo comes back and hits enough to interest someone, they should get the prospects or whatever. Even if they wat this year’s salary. But I can’t remember if has a no trade.
BVSQuote Reply
uncle dave,
I remember 1985 and another example is 2009.
So KB’s injury looked pretty bad?
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
Never, ever go south of the Equator.
uncle daveQuote Reply
…thank god we have a different ownership group than the idiots that ran the Trib/Cubs.
Theo said today no rentals without the team “earning” them. I think Buy is off the table.
BVSQuote Reply
dmick89,
It didn’t look bad at the time, but he needed help leaving the field and was clearly in pain.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Best advice of the month
BVSQuote Reply
Perkins,
Edwards is from the Corridor of Shame in SC. He knows where he isn’t wanted even if he’s only 23.
BVSQuote Reply
dmick89,
I’m still ‘working’ and not watching the game, but the accounts I’ve read sound pretty negative. Even if he misses a month or two, that’s crippling for the team.
This reminds me of ’85 because that team had a whole lot of guys get old all at once, or so it seemed. Maybe I was too young to fully recall what the deal was, though.
uncle daveQuote Reply
Jesus, Javy.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Looked like Bryant couldn’t put any weight on it at all.
MylesQuote Reply
Sounds like an ankle injury for Bryant. If he needed help off the field, I assume the best case is 4-6 weeks followed by a rehab stint. That would be pretty crippling for a team that has been treading water all season.
On the plus side, Davis should fetch a lot at the trade deadline.
PerkinsQuote Reply
I’m too young to remember, but I don’t see how 1985 is comparable to the current situation. The 1984 NL East champions were an aging team whose title run came as a surprise. 2016 was supposed to be the start of a dynasty.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
I don’t think the window is even close to closed. This has been a bad year, but there is still a tremendous amount of talent on this team. There’s just a lot of crap on this team, too.
MylesQuote Reply
Myles,
Agreed. Bryant and Rizzo are under control for several more years, as are Baez, Russell, and Heyward (assuming he doesn’t opt out). Also Schwarber, assuming he gets it back together. If Happ keeps adjusting, that’s great too. Edwards likely takes the 9th once Davis is gone, and the rest of the bullpen is somewhat fungible anyway.
What I’d hope to see the Cubs do at the deadline is move Davis, Jay, and Lackey, and trade for Sonny Gray with 2018 and 2019 in mind. Even with Bryant missing significant time, they have a shot at the postseason this year, but not one worth going all in on.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
Yes and no. There’s definitely a core here that didn’t exist in ’85, aside from Sandberg and a bit of hope for Dunston. But I think that the pieces surrounding the young core of last year’s team (most notably, Zobrist, Arrieta, and Lackey) got older a lot faster than we had hoped. Maybe that’s just me, though.
uncle daveQuote Reply
uncle dave,
Baez reminds me of Dunston in many ways (insane athleticism, terrible plate discipline).
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Myles,
It’s not closed, but with the farm system depleted compared to what it was, they’re going to have to patch this up with lots of money and sometimes that works and sometimes it’s a disaster. The young guys will also be getting more expensive. They had a lot of room for error entering this season, but a lot less in future years.
dmick89Quote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
They both thought they could make every single play in the field even when they had no chance. It’s easy to sit here and say Baez has more potential, but Dunston had huge upside early on.
dmick89Quote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
I’d take that comp. Dunston was widely regarded as a top-five sort of prospect (before that was really a thing). Loved watching him play, in the sense that literally anything could happen.
uncle daveQuote Reply
Belated, but fuck. Sell Lackey and Arrieta and maybe Davis or Uehara. Get Sonny Gray or another longterm controllable arm. Call up the likes of Tseng and Clifton. Maybe Eddie Butler turns into Arrieta, magically, and the Cubs win the 2017 World Series. And maybe they would see the Giants in the playoffs.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Thinking about starting a new Cubs Web Site:
havethecubslostyet.net
It will have a static page with one word:
YES
ceruleanQuote Reply
#WeAreNotBackAndIAmNotComingBack
—Miggy
ceruleanQuote Reply
Hopefully both Zagunis and Candelario go on a tear. Any time now guys. Play your way out of Chi-town.
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
I heard the Nats need some bullpen arms…
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
How about Lackey?
dmick89Quote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
Do they have anything left to deal?
ceruleanQuote Reply
Mild to moderate ankle sprain for Bryant.
dmick89Quote Reply
cerulean,
Lackey for Harper and a PTBNL.
dmick89Quote Reply
I’d rather not deal a short-term contract for a short-term contract.
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
You’re forgetting about the PTBNL (minor leaguer). Simple mistake.
dmick89Quote Reply
Better throw in Montero to make that one work. They’ll have to eat some salary though.
berseliusQuote Reply
The Cubs should pull a 2016 Yankees and deal Wade Davis to the Nats for Erick Fredde and Jesus Luzardo.
Also Joan Baez so we can make Bob Dylan references.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Yes please.
dmick89Quote Reply
No way. If they want Montero, the Cubs should get Rendon. The Cubs will need a 3rd baseman with Bryant out so I think this trade really has a good shot of happening. Makes sense for both teams.
dmick89Quote Reply
New pod is scheduled to go up tomorrow morning.
berseliusQuote Reply
do the cubs suck now
SKQuote Reply
if you ever get the chance to listen to Bob Dylan’s radio show episode that had a theme of “baseball songs” don’t take it. All baseball-related music sucks ass.
SKQuote Reply
SK,
What about “6 Months” from the Tony Award winning musical Damn Yankees?
EdwinQuote Reply
SK,
Yes
dmick89Quote Reply
Forgive me for not reading every word, but how much of the Cubs dip in nonsuck do we attribute to the World Series run? Not much of an excuse for the offense, but couldn’t that explain the subpar pitching across the board?
I guess the point is, couldn’t we just assume a season like this was somewhat anticipated and that the FO will not deviate from its long term plan?
RynoQuote Reply
http://obstructedview.net/podcast/ov-podcast-21-the-dawn-of-the-victor-caratini-era/
New shit
berseliusQuote Reply
Ryno,
I don’t know. I think Rizzo The Rat mentioned awhile back that the last WS Champion to reach the playoffs was the Phillies so maybe there’s something to it. Then again, the champions since then have been the Giants (3 times), Yankees, Royals and I think the cardinals.
I don’t think they should deviate from their plan. I just think that selling has to be something the team considers, but I’m not talking about selling valuable assets like Bryant or Rizzo. I’m only talking about selling assets that won’t be around either after this season or much longer. Guys like Arrieta, Lackey, Zobrist (the Cubs just don’t need him at this point), Davis, Uehara and possibly Rondon and maybe some others I’m not thinking of. Off limits (unless the offer was ridiculous) would be Rizzo, Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, Almora, Baez, Lester and top prospects. That’s basically been their plan all along.
It just might be that they have to keep to that plan in a year they thought they’d be really good. Shit happens and I think with all the injuries it’s fairly easy to see why this team has underperformed.
Wade Davis is the big one. The Cubs, even if they reach the postseason, just aren’t all that good this year and a good closer can bring a whole in return. Whatever the Cubs can get for Davis is more valuable than the 15 or so innings he might pitch in the postseason if everything went smoothly. If things do go smoothly, it will probably be because the offense finally started to hit and the pitchers stopped giving up 425 foot fly balls. Davis will probably have only a small role in any success.
dmick89Quote Reply
there’s no such thing as the baez-o-meter. therefore, dunston was a significantly better player.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply