After the Cubs pitchers struggled to throw strikes in the postseason, the Cubs have fired Chris Bosio. Joe Maddon thought the entire coaching staff would stay intact, which wasn't hard to believe since they've won an average of 97 games over the last three seasons.
Earlier this week, Cubs manager Joe Maddon said he'd thought the coaching staff would stay intact heading into next season.
"Of course," Maddon said Wednesday, before the Cubs were eliminated by the Dodgers in the NLCS. "Listen, the staff's done a great job. Our staff's been awesome. It's a tightly-knit group. Really, there's a lot of synergy involved."
Earlier this week, Theo Epstein was on some radio show and was talking about taking ownership of the control issues the team had in the postseason so it's not surprising to see them go in a different direction here. It was not all Bosio's fault, but the pitching coach is usually the first to go when there's obviously an issue and there clearly was. That ESPN article suggests the Cubs will be looking at Jim Hickey who was with Joe in Tampa Bay. I'd also suggest Mike Maddux since he's also available now.
Comments
Was this FO in office the last time that the Cubs went after Mike Maddux, or was that Hendry?
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
It was after the 2011 season so Thoyer was already running things.
dmick89Quote Reply
It’s odd but probably true that had a few of the Cubs’ best batters hit for over .200, they wouldn’t have had to fire their pitching coach.
67catchQuote Reply
At least there should be enough action this offseason that we might beat last offseason’ average of a post a month (dying laughing).
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
I should be able to start doing some more posting. It’s been about four years since I’ve done anything other than game threads. My neck is feeling a little better these days than it has for a long time.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
Great to hear.
berseliusQuote Reply
Is it a safe assumption that Jon Jay will be re-signed? He’s a fine part-time player even if Joe fell in love with him too much.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
It depends on how much playing time they want guys like Happ and Almora to have barring a mini blockbuster trade. I would not mind Jon Jay in limited action.
RiceQuote Reply
Rice,
I don’t think you can really have an outfield that consists of Happ and Schwarber in my opinion. Joe was reluctant to use Happ in the outfield in the postseason and for good reason. I think I’d rather they clear room for him at 2nd or in LF.
dmick89Quote Reply
I imagine one of Happ or Schwarber is traded this offseason, so Jay (should he be re-signed) will have his opportunities as will Almora Jr.
MylesQuote Reply
I wonder if Greg Maddux is interested in coaching. The meme potential for him and Hendricks working together seems high.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Dave Righetti is also out in SF. Bad day to be a pitching coach.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Muskat and Jesse Rogers suggest it was just the 2018 option not being exercised. So technically not a firing, but effectively the same.
RiceQuote Reply
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Rizzo the Rat,
His first tweet is stupid, but it’s not like Moneyball is why the Dodgers are winning. Spending more than anyone else helps.
dmick89Quote Reply
I would love to see Mike Maddux hired as pitching coach and his younger, lesser-known brother brought on as a dugout coach—you know, for practical jokes.
ceruleanQuote Reply
He can be the senior fart technician.
berseliusQuote Reply
It would probably be a tie game if Girardi took out Bird for a pinch-runner.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Kinda rooting for the Astros here, but a bit worried about the intel St. Louis will get out of it.
uncle daveQuote Reply
uncle dave,
Short players are the new market inefficiency.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
No ring for Starlin.
berseliusQuote Reply
Rooting for 7 games. These teams are good and fun to watch. Even if one of them destroyed the Cubs.
RiceQuote Reply
Apparently, you don’t even need to win an LCS anymore to be declared the next dynasty.
https://www.theringer.com/2017/10/22/16515602/new-york-yankees-alcs-loss-houston-astros-future-outlook
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
Or your own division.
dmick89Quote Reply
Word from The Shire is that it was Joe who made the decision to axe Bosio.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-report-cubs-fire-longtime-pitching-coach-chris-bosio-20171021-story.html??
berseliusQuote Reply
Just a reminder: The Chicago Cubs are still the current World Series Champions.
And given the state of the world, they still might be the final World Series Champions.
#keepOnTheSunnySideOfLossAndNuclearHolocaust
ceruleanQuote Reply
Someone has to be the fall guy; they can’t fire the pitching staff but is it Bosio’s fault the pitchers can’t throw strikes? He’s not on the mound!
ThomasQuote Reply
Thomas,
It sounds like it has more to do with some of the issues he’s had this year with Maddon and the issue with Lester probably didn’t help him. He’ll find a job if he wants one so he’ll be okay.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
I saw that he and Joe had issues, and the issues with the FO over Wilson, but didn’t realize there was one with Lester too.
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
I remember something from earlier this year and then read about it again yesterday. I think they got into some argument in the dugout. You can probably find a video of it.
dmick89Quote Reply
The front office was also apparently pissed about his (and
Arrieta'sLackey's) comments about Thames early in the season.dmick89Quote Reply
It’s probably worth pointing out that I think these players and their coaches argue a lot more than we realize. It probably wasn’t anything special. It’s not like all that ego is going to go 7-8 months without some issues. I’m also guessing that there are more arguments between players than we know of. I imagine it’s fairly common.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
I thought it was he and Lackey, not Arrieta.
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
You’re right. I thought it was Jake for some reason.
dmick89Quote Reply
At least I no longer have to watch John Lackey pitch again.
MylesQuote Reply
Great, now they are guaranteed to re-sign him. Thanks a lot, Myles.
ceruleanQuote Reply
I think you just guaranteed that he is the next pitching coach.
berseliusQuote Reply
67catch,
it was tough for the cubs pitchers, without any run support from the rest of the team the pitchers had to pitch perfect games to win, I think that they might have scored four runs the first three games which puts a lot of pressure on the pitching staff.
maybe instead of the pitching coach being history it should have been the hitting coach
jack morrisonQuote Reply
jack morrison,
It was definitely tough for the pitchers in the postseason since perfection may not have been good enough against the Dodgers. Despite that, there’s no way I’d fire the hitting coach. The Cubs offense has done very well and the pitching staff has issued way too many walks. I’m guessing if Bosio didn’t have the issues he did this year that he’d be coming back. I’m fine with the move because I really do think the Cubs had to do something to try to help their bullpen out. They can’t replace the entire bullpen, but maybe a new pitching coach will be able to help them throw more strikes. I hope so.
dmick89Quote Reply
At least I no longer have to watch the Cubs win the 2018 World Series.
MylesQuote Reply
Wish list:
Lo Cain (Dexter Fowler just got 5 for $85m)
4/5 starter (Lance Lynn or Alex Cobb)
Go hard for Otani
If you miss on Otani, trade one of Schwarber/Happ for a #2 starter with 3+ years of control
JonKneeVQuote Reply
dmick89,
Yeah, I don’t think the postseason bullpen performance is what cost Bosio his job. Cubs aren’t the Nats. I think Bosio has probably been on his way out for a while now for reasons that go well beyond bullpen walk rate and that we might never know about outside of some vague team statement. No team relationship lasts forever. Hickey has always been Joe’s guy anyway. It was probably a matter of time, and last year’s WS win only put it off a year.
And obviously, I don’t think Mallee should get the ax either. The Cubs offense faced Stephen Strasburg (twice), Max Scherzer (twice), Gio Gonzalez (twice), Clayton Kershaw (twice), Rich Hill, Alex Wood, and Yu Fucking Darvish, all of whom run a narrow range of very good to elite. Add the lockdown Dodgers pen to that (and the Nats pen was pretty solid second half too), and in retrospect, I’m actually surprised the Cubs scored any runs at all.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I’m hoping the Cardinals sign Hickey. I’d much rather have Maddux.
dmick89Quote Reply
It sounds like the Cubs could lose Dave Martinez. That would kind of suck.
dmick89Quote Reply
If thes projected arbitration salaries are correct, Rondon, Martin and Grimm need to be released. No bother even trying to trade them.
Cubs (8)
Justin Wilson (5.035) – $4.3MM
Hector Rondon (5.000) – $6.2MM
Justin Grimm (4.162) – $2.4MM
Leonys Martin (4.161) – $4.9MM
Kyle Hendricks (3.081) – $4.9MM
Tommy La Stella (3.072) – $1.0MM
Kris Bryant (2.171) – $8.9MM
Addison Russell (2.167) – $2.3MM
dmick89Quote Reply
So, looking at BN’s post today about Theo’s comments that “probably” a position player on the 25-man will have to be dealt, who are we okay with letting go, and who are we looking at getting? One, maybe two, of Schwarber, Happ, Almora, Russell, and Baez would have to go for the Cubs to get the sort of pitcher they want. But outside of someone like oft-rumored-to-be-dealt Chris Archer, who else would be worth what the Cubs would have to spend and is available?
Maybe dm is right and the Cubs should just continue to enjoy their excellent positional depth and sign Yu Darvish.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
dmick89,
martin’s salary must have an extra zero or something…that seems nuts.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I’m okay with the Cubs trading some mlb talent, but it’s always easier to spend money. It also allows you to keep that mlb talent to use later on if needed. The Cubs payroll stayed the same this year, which is unusual after two deep playoff runs. So it really depends on whether they can spend money and if not, they really have only a small advantage over any other NL Central team and that sucks.
dmick89Quote Reply
Since Darvish is available, it makes too much sense to go after him. The Cubs need at least one top of the rotation pitcher. I would be a fan of signing Darvish and trading for Archer.
dmick89Quote Reply
I’d hope the Cubs sign Darvish or even Arrieta since they only cost money (which the Cubs should have).
Of Schwarber, Happ, Russell, Baez, and Almora, which would you be most comfortable seeing go in a trade? I’d have to say Almora, but I doubt they get much for him, so probably Happ.
PerkinsQuote Reply
There’s always that sort of move.
Might have to live with the worst hitting outfield in baseball to get there, but it’s there for the doing.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Here’s the order of the players I’d be most willing to trade.
Almora
Happ
Baez
Schwarber
Russell *
Rizzo *
Contreras *
Bryant *
* I’d only consider trading those players if the deal was obviously favoring the Cubs.
I’d give Heyward to another team if they took the contract.
dmick89Quote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I think you could do that and still sign Cain.
Not my money. (dying laughing)
dmick89Quote Reply
I’m still trying to find pitchers to want to trade one of them for that boosts 2018. Outside of Archer, I’m not seeing much.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
I’m guessing the best they could do for Almora is a decent reliever. If he can throw strikes, I’m in.
dmick89Quote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
He’s probably the entire list.
dmick89Quote Reply
Eric Hinske — — — > Angels hitting coach
dmick89Quote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
That’s about where my head is at. Maybe the Rockies would be willing to part with Gray, but I very much doubt it (and it’d be significant risk on the Cubs’ part since his track record isn’t very long).
I’d say sign two of Darvish, Arrieta, and Cobb. Not sure what relievers are on the market other than Davis, but I’d probably re-sign him and hope that Strop, Edwards, and Wilson are reliable in 2018.
PerkinsQuote Reply
Perkins,
I like signing two of Darvish, Arrieta and Cobb, but no thanks to Davis. I’d rather give the closer’s role to Edwards than re-sign Davis. If the Cubs want a closer, they’ll probably have to trade for one. The time to sign one was last year.
dmick89Quote Reply
Wonder how much salary the Cubs would eat in a Heyward trade. If they could trade out of 2/3 of that contract, you’d have to think they’d do it, right? Heyward + $34 MM for some AA bullpen arm? that’d free up some money down the road, and if you front load the payment, it only adds $6MM to this year’s payroll. Of course, there would have to be some contingency if he opted out (dying laughing)
mylesQuote Reply
If Heyward hits like 2015 Heyward, I honestly could see him opting out after next season (50/50 chance). If he hits like 2015 Heyward in 18 and 19, I think he certainly would.
Of course, that’s the struggle.
mylesQuote Reply
myles,
I hope he hits like 2001-2002 Barry Bonds.
dmick89Quote Reply
I would prefer signing Cobb, even if it’s just for a season with options for more based on starts or whatever. Lynn’s career splits vs lefties are bad it’s scary.
It would be great if we still had cash for 2019’s Bryce Harper Sweepstakes. If JHey remains an albatross, we might as well treat it as one and continue making signings as if he is a part time player. I think the Superfriends are smart enough to realize when he’s a sunk cost and treat him as such.
I think we should still be of the belief that bullpen arms magically create themselves and a new season should breed at least 1 solid reliever. I’m on the fence about an expensive closer; if we sign one, fine, it can be argued that it’s necessary. if we don’t, see my previous point.
sharpchicityQuote Reply
I might take 2017-2018 Barry Bonds.
Wenningtons Gorilla CockQuote Reply
Wenningtons Gorilla Cock,
(dying laughing) you’re probably right.
dmick89Quote Reply
The Harper sweepstakes are exactly why I’d look to offload Heyward for whatever salary relief you can get. Harper should patrol RF for the next decade.
MylesQuote Reply
Myles,
The Cubs should sign Harper, but the Cubs don’t need to trade Heyward this offseason or next. It would be nice, but I think it’s very unlikely until there’s only two, maybe three years left in the deal. I don’t see too many teams, if any, knocking down the doors to get an all defensive corner outfielder any time soon. As you said earlier, if Heyward hits well enough that he might be considered a good player again, he’s probably opting out so the problem is solved that way. I also think the Cubs would have to eat at least 75% of that contract. If heyward signed a deal this offseason, what’s he going to get? Could he even get $30 million? I wouldn’t want the Cubs to sign him for that much.
dmick89Quote Reply
have any players ever completely changed the way they hit during an offseason?? Heyward’s swing was “retooled” this year, but it still looked awfully familiar. Maybe get a good crouch like old Jeff Bagwell. Or bunt every PA. Worst case scenario, just hit lefty from the righty batters box. We’ll at least get a chuckle rather than the agonizing popups.
sharpchicityQuote Reply
sharpchicity,
Ya. They didn’t really rebuild his swing. I believe I read that they wanted him to continue doing what felt comfortable and have a few adjustments to his load and hand position.
But damn if his swing looks like he’s fighting his body every time he swings. It looks… unnatural.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
JonKneeV,
You’d think Heyward would do just about anything to get back to being productive with the bat.
dmick89Quote Reply
anything except fly out to the infield, I guess.
mylesQuote Reply
dmick89,
he would do anything with glove,
anything you’ve been dreaming of,
but he just won’t do bat.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo,
i’ll show myself to the door.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo,
You have been banned from Obstructed View. Please reply to the message posted to the side of a coffee vending machine located in the basement of the Kmart at 38th and 6th.
Berselius is too lazy to loginQuote Reply
Looks like Kershaw is having an okay night.
berseliusQuote Reply
Berselius is too lazy to login,
i’ve submitted my resignation letter using smoke signals and will return my membership card via pony express. to acknowledge, please contact me asap on my phone which is actually two cans tied together by a long piece of string.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
Vin!
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Smoltz: No chance there’s a fastball.
Hill: Throws a fastball.
I hate Smoltz so much.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Wow
dmick89Quote Reply
Marwin! #FireTheo
JKVQuote Reply
Altuve!!!
PerkinsQuote Reply
I hate the Astros.
dmick89Quote Reply
I may have missed something, but how did Barnes displace Grandal as the Dodgers’ starting catcher?
PerkinsQuote Reply
RynoQuote Reply
Jojer RD is out.
RynoQuote Reply
Ryno,
I wonder who is out there that the Yankees would go after, since they usually like high profile guys. I don’t think that Dusty is a fit there.
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
Based on their most recent hire, I’d guess Hideki Matsui.
RynoQuote Reply
RynoQuote Reply
Chili Davis, huh.
RynoQuote Reply
Ryno,
Didn’t see that coming.
dmick89Quote Reply
Mallee is out then too.
JKVQuote Reply
So when Theo said Joe Maddon can have everyone he wants back, he was saying “Joe Maddon fucking hates everybody.” Got it.
MylesQuote Reply
Mallee and Gary Jones.
PerkinsQuote Reply
I thought we would have heard about the same day as Bosio, if it was happening at all. Seems not.
Though any new hitting coach should just be called the Fix Whatever the Hell is Wrong with Jason Heyward Coach.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
If Martinez gets the Nationals job, is David Ross a candidate for bench coach?
dmick89Quote Reply
That job would probably be worth $50 million.
dmick89Quote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/cubs-hire-chili-davis-as-hitting-coach/
dmick89Quote Reply