I happened to be driving in the car when Kevin Millar went on the Waddle and Silvy Show on ESPN 1000 so I heard this live and I was pissed as hell I wasn’t able to transcribe any of it because I was screaming at my radio by the end of it. Thankfully, Paul Sullivan took the trouble of doing it for me. Millar got asked what he thought the difference would be under Quade instead of Lou Piniella:
“I didn’t get a chance to play with Lou but I mean, there definitely was something missing, OK,” he told ESPN’s “Waddle and Silvy Show.” “You have to have more organization and know who is going in the game that day. Listen, I played 12 years in the big leagues, and I sat there for 9 innings in a spring training game and didn’t know if I was playing or not playing. There’s just common courtesy to use an example personally.
“You know, hey listen you’re going in the 5th inning after Derek Lee, OK perfect. So you know to go get loose in the 4th or whatever it is. It’s little things like that. The line ups were a big issue. I’ll tell you right now, Mike Quade is a baseball guy the first thing speaking with (Ryan) Dempster he loves this guy. It’s a different feel. Nothing against Lou Piniella, he managed a lot of years and you get to the point where you don’t think about those things but it was a little frustrating from the player’s side period. That there were no line ups, Lou didn’t know who was playing, and who was going in and it gets old. So then what happens is you get guys in bad moods and then what happens is you’re kind of like whatever. That’s the way the Cubs kind of played to an extent.”
If I could have reached through my radio and strangled Millar, I would be wanted for murder right now.
Really, Kevin? The fact that a manager expected a major league ballplayer to be ready to play in any game in any situation at all times was the problem? Really? You mean John Grabow might have not thrown as many meatballs to the plate if Lou had stuck a Post-It to his forehead as he slept alerting him that he would definitely go in the game that day?
Maybe Ryan Theriot would have drawn more than one walk in the entire month of May if he had received a text to his phone telling him he was starting at second base tomorrow.
Maybe Lou needed to sew the names of Justin Berg, James Russell, and Jeff Stevens into their underwear so they could tell the difference between each other and they would have known better who Lou was telling to throw a fucking strike.
Asked if Piniella was simply “old school,” Millar replied: “I don’t buy the old school stuff. I’m not falling for that. That’s the banana in the tail pipe, the whole old school, listen… adjust to the times, right? There’s no old school, this is a new generation. The line ups not being out, that was old school? You know. So, I’m not falling for that, you don’t get that leeway with me.”
You’re not giving Lou Piniella leeway? You talentless, hick asshat. Lou Piniella could have his head chopped off and he would still have twice as many brains as Kevin Millar. Lou may or may not ever even read these comments from Millar, and if he does, he likely could not give two shits, but there is no way on God’s green earth that Kevin fucking Millar should ever be criticizing Lou Piniella’s choice of pizza toppings, much less managerial aptitude.
I guess I understand Millar not being a fan of “old school” ways since he apparently has an aversion to anything involving school in any way.
Kevin, I’ll tell you what should have been obvious to anyone not named Kevin Millar. No matter when the lineup card was available, whether it was three days before or thirty seconds before it got handed to the umpires, you shouldn’t have been listed on it.
Comments
Lots of “bird” puns from Pat Hughes at the end there.
EddieQuote Reply
Millar’s problems, which are numerous, stem from his stunningly blind stupidity.
HarryQuote Reply
I think A424 is easily the second-angriest Ovarian View author.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Nice rant btw.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
(dying laughing) at seeing Ivy Chat on the blogroll. I haven’t been over there in about 15 years.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]I think A424 is easily the second-angriest Ovarian View author.[/quote]
That’s why he was the Hulk.
Byrd today: 4 PA, 10 pitches seen.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Nicely done, Tim. What pisses me off about this Lou bashing shit is that the team won 97 games in 2008. They were the best team in baseball in 2007 after June 2nd or 3rd. They were the best team in baseball from that date until the end of the 2008 season. Are these people telling me that the Cubs players had a problem with the way Lou was running things then? Of course not. It’s not even up for debate. We didn’t hear word one about it until the Cubs sucked last season and guess what, players bitch and moan when the team loses. It happens on every single team that loses a lot of games. It had nothing to do with Lou. It had everything to do with losing.
Like you, I’m just sick of this bullshit. Lou was a great manager for several teams and anybody in their right mind would cut somebody off if they started saying what Millar did.
By the way, there’s a 100% chance you’re going to see the forest gif posted sometime in the next 30 minutes. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]I think A424 is easily the second-angriest Ovarian View author.[/quote]Berselius isn’t that angry. AC has always seemed like a nice guy to me. I don’t now why you’d pick on those two. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Berselius isn’t that angry. AC has always seemed like a nice guy to me. I don’t now why you’d pick on those two. (dying laughing)[/quote]
I only get angry at MLBAM (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Berselius isn’t that angry. AC has always seemed like a nice guy to me. I don’t now why you’d pick on those two. (dying laughing)[/quote]Actually, Tim may be the angriest. You aren’t nearly as angry as you used to be. (dying laughing)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Nicely done, Tim. What pisses me off about this Lou bashing shit is that the team won 97 games in 2008. They were the best team in baseball in 2007 after June 2nd or 3rd. They were the best team in baseball from that date until the end of the 2008 season. Are these people telling me that the Cubs players had a problem with the way Lou was running things then? Of course not. It’s not even up for debate. We didn’t hear word one about it until the Cubs sucked last season and guess what, players bitch and moan when the team loses. It happens on every single team that loses a lot of games. It had nothing to do with Lou. It had everything to do with losing.
Like you, I’m just sick of this bullshit. Lou was a great manager for several teams and anybody in their right mind would cut somebody off if they started saying what Millar did.
By the way, there’s a 100% chance you’re going to see the forest gif posted sometime in the next 30 minutes. (dying laughing)[/quote]
To play devil’s advocate, I think most of those people would say that Lou was asleep at the switch in the later years and should have been blowing up umpires like he did in 07.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]Actually, Tim may be the angriest. You aren’t nearly as angry as you used to be. (dying laughing)[/quote]I took anger management classes with Zambrano.
Some things still piss me off enough to rant, but I usually end up deleting them before they’re posted.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]To play devil’s advocate, I think most of those people would say that Lou was asleep at the switch in the later years and should have been blowing up umpires like he did in 07.[/quote]
I wish Quade had fallen asleep at the switch after he put Marshall in.
melissaQuote Reply
Anyone who thinks Piniella was a good manager for the Cubs is wrong.
Koenig, Raymond R.Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I took anger management classes with Zambrano.
[/quote]
In that case you’re cured.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Koenig, Raymond R.]Anyone who thinks Piniella was a good manager for the Cubs is wrong.[/quote]
Done deal sealed. Prove me wrong.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]To play devil’s advocate, I think most of those people would say that Lou was asleep at the switch in the later years and should have been blowing up umpires like he did in 07.[/quote]He only had that one blowup. His fiery days were long gone by the time he came to Chicago. I guess I don’t see how a guy who runs out about 120 lineups per season, gets criticized for double switching and defensive replacements could be called asleep at the wheel. Clearly the guy was paying every bit of his attention to the game. More than anybody else I’d bet.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]In that case you’re cured.[/quote]Absolutely. Worked like a charm.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]He only had that one blowup. His fiery days were long gone by the time he came to Chicago. I guess I don’t see how a guy who runs out about 120 lineups per season, gets criticized for double switching and defensive replacements could be called asleep at the wheel. Clearly the guy was paying every bit of his attention to the game. More than anybody else I’d bet.[/quote]
It didn’t get any better than Lou’s grouchy old man routine with the media (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It didn’t get any better than Lou’s grouchy old man routine with the media (dying laughing)[/quote]You seen the damn game!
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Wow, the O’s are on their way to 4-0
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It didn’t get any better than Lou’s grouchy old man routine with the media (dying laughing)[/quote]The day Matt Murton dropped a ball in right was my favorite. His post-game tirade ruined Murton on this continent.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It didn’t get any better than Lou’s grouchy old man routine with the media (dying laughing)[/quote]But that’s not affecting his job. If the Cubs win in 2009 or 2010, Lou leaves Chicago as the most loved manager in Cubs history. People are talking about how hard it would be to replace him and so on and so forth.
You know my opinions on managers. They’re worth maybe 1-2 wins over the course of a season and they’re paid for less than 1 win so MLB teams agree with that.
mb21Quote Reply
Carlos Pena day-to-day with sprained thumb. Tyler Colvin, welcome back to the lineup.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Glad Cubs won..
Posted this elsewhere:
Dont know how i feel about Quade. Today was weird
1. Marsahll is not a loogy He is one of the better relievers in baseball.. Please do not use him like one. Let him throw the whole 7th. No reason to burn three relievers in one inning on that offense.
2. Someone should show Mike Kerrys injury history. Three days in a row this early not a good idea.
3. Pinch Hitting for Pena in a 2 run game is jsut dumb. we need our best defensive team out there.
Quade seems to be lacking in the tactical areas..
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
I hope Colvin can pick a ball out of the dirt or we’ll never ever hear the end about Pena’s ability to do so.
mb21Quote Reply
Wood and Marmol aren’t available tomorrow so Quade will have to use Marshall for 2 innings. If you look at it like that it makes sense. I’d probably have used Marshall for 1.1 today and Mateo for .2 while giving the other two rest today. Oh well. It’s not like one appearance is going to result in a season ending injury.
mb21Quote Reply
Let’s see Quade do this another 5-6 times with Marshall this month before we conclude anything about LOOGY-ness.
BerseliusQuote Reply
So, Quade loves the vets so much he’s going to let them pitch whenever they like. “I was committed, I came in today, Woody and Marmol were emphatic, about, they felt fantastic, they wanted to pitch. It’s early. We’ll see about tomorrow. They did their jobs and that was a good thing.”
melissaQuote Reply
I agree, b. He did say in spring training that he was the set-up man and that Wood was the 7th inning guy. You’re going to have to mix and match though because they can’t all pitch every day.
mb21Quote Reply
If “well see about tomorrow” means anything other than “Marmol and Wood aren’t available to pitch today” then Quade has issues.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]Carlos Pena day-to-day with sprained thumb. Tyler Colvin, welcome back to the lineup.[/quote]
Welcome to the dugout balls from the left side of the infield
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]So, Quade loves the vets so much he’s going to let them pitch whenever they like. “I was committed, I came in today, Woody and Marmol were emphatic, about, they felt fantastic, they wanted to pitch. It’s early. We’ll see about tomorrow. They did their jobs and that was a good thing.”[/quote]So my suspicions in the last thread were correct.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]If “well see about tomorrow” means anything other than “Marmol and Wood aren’t available to pitch today” then Quade has issues.[/quote]
Hate starting a day with the best two RH relievers (when their best two hitters are RH) burned..
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I agree, b. He did say in spring training that he was the set-up man and that Wood was the 7th inning guy. You’re going to have to mix and match though because they can’t all pitch every day.[/quote]
He’ll probably switch back and forth between them depending on how many lefties are due up in the 7th and 8th
BerseliusQuote Reply
I just can’t believe Millar, of all people, would go and try to blame a lack of communication as the reason the team Lost a shitload of games. They lost because they weren’t any good. How that guy gets paid to talk about baseball is one of the biggest travesties in baseball today. It’s a traveshamockery.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Wood has thrown nearly 60 pitches the last 3 days plus all the warm-up tosses. No way can you use him tomorrow. Marmol hasn’t thrown as many as Wood, but I find it hard to believe that you could use him either.
http://obstructedview.net/cubs-pitcher-usage.html
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Wood has thrown nearly 60 pitches the last 3 days plus all the warm-up tosses. No way can you use him tomorrow. Marmol hasn’t thrown as many as Wood, but I find it hard to believe that you could use him either.
http://obstructedview.net/cubs-pitcher-usage.html%5B/quote%5D
You don’t manage a bullpen on your fagety spreadsheet. Prove me wrong.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Especially when Millar was a part of the team for a fucking month. A month!
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Wood has thrown nearly 60 pitches the last 3 days plus all the warm-up tosses. No way can you use him tomorrow. Marmol hasn’t thrown as many as Wood, but I find it hard to believe that you could use him either.
http://obstructedview.net/cubs-pitcher-usage.html%5B/quote%5D
Wood should be off until Friday.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]You don’t manage a bullpen on your fagety spreadsheet. Prove me wrong.[/quote]
Ari Kaplan uses his patented “No Homo small sample spreadsheets.”
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Especially when Millar was a part of the team for a fucking month. A month![/quote]
Millar should STFU. I found it interesting that he mentioned he’s buddies with Demp as if some of his opinion is based on what Demp has said. I love Demp but he should tell his broham to leave him out of it. It makes it look like Demp bitched about Lou and has been praising Quade to him.
melissaQuote Reply
CubsInsider Chicago Cubs
Congratulations to SS Starlin Castro, who was just named co-NL Player of the Week along with Cardinals P Jaime Garcia.
1 hour ago
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Only 24 times last year Marmol pitched with no days rest. I’m not worried with 3 days in a row, but 4 this early? That’s crazy. It’s a crime if you use Wood 4 days in a row at any point this season.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]You don’t manage a bullpen on your fagety spreadsheet. Prove me wrong.[/quote]Can I manage the bullpen with a text file?
mb21Quote Reply
Marmol didn’t pitch back to back days last season until May 15-16.
mb21Quote Reply
April 10-12 in 2009
mb21Quote Reply
April 5-6 in 2008
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Only 24 times last year Marmol pitched with no days rest. I’m not worried with 3 days in a row, but 4 this early? That’s crazy. It’s a crime if you use Wood 4 days in a row at any point this season.[/quote]
No idea if it’s true or not, but it’s always seemed Marmol has a tougher time finding his slider when pitching on no rest. You just hope he finds it before he walks too many guys. It felt especially true if he went more than one inning.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]No idea if it’s true or not, but it’s always seemed Marmol has a tougher time finding his slider when pitching on no rest. You just hope he finds it before he walks too many guys. It felt especially true if he went more than one inning.[/quote]Once he found it, he found it. He went from completely lost to devastating in a blink.
AndCountingQuote Reply
It’s the first time Wood has thrown 3 consecutive days since the end of September 2009. He did it one other time in 2009. He did it twice in 2008. One of them was 4 consecutive days toward the end of August.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Marmol didn’t pitch back to back days last season until May 15-16.[/quote]
Yeah, but Lou was asleep at the switch, so that’s why.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]No idea if it’s true or not, but it’s always seemed Marmol has a tougher time finding his slider when pitching on no rest. You just hope he finds it before he walks too many guys. It felt especially true if he went more than one inning.[/quote]There may be some truth to that. I don’t mind either pitcher throwing 3 days in a row and I wouldn’t even mind 4 in a row later in the season, but 4 in a row right now is ridiculous.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]There may be some truth to that. I don’t mind either pitcher throwing 3 days in a row and I wouldn’t even mind 4 in a row later in the season, but 4 in a row right now is ridiculous.[/quote]
I don’t think Wood should be throwing 4 games in a row unless there is an off day in there somewhere.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Yeah, but Lou was asleep at the switch, so that’s why.[/quote]If I had used a Word document instead of a spreadsheet, I’d have known that.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s the first time Wood has thrown 3 consecutive days since the end of September 2009. He did it one other time in 2009. He did it twice in 2008. One of them was 4 consecutive days toward the end of August.[/quote]You don’t read every word.
He pitched three days in a row once last year: June 27-29, 2010.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I don’t think Wood should be throwing 4 games in a row unless there is an off day in there somewhere.[/quote]Agreed. I looked only at dates when I was looking through the game logs. I really don’t think Wood should be throwing 4 days in a row at all. Unless something comes up that lands Marmol, Marshall, and 3 or 4 others on the DL, I see no reason that it should ever happen. The two times he threw on 3 days in 2009 (none in 2010) he had a week off after one time and the other he threw 9 pitches over the next week. We have to go back to 2008 to find Wood being worked all that hard.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]You don’t read every word.
He pitched three days in a row once last year: June 27-29, 2010.[/quote](dying laughing) how did I miss that? He then had one appearance over the next week.
mb21Quote Reply
Cool rage, bro.
Complaining about managers/coaches is just a way to pass the time for lots of fans. In the span of just a few days here Quade has been critiqued for both overusing his starters (Dempster) and his bullpen (Wood). I listened to about 5 minutes of the WGN postgame call-in show yesterday to hear a couple calls of people certain Quade is over his head because of tiny detail X and Y. Whatever. As long as Quade doesn’t interfere with a live ball or pull a gun on a player or umpire, he’s fine with me.
If Kevin Millar says a bunch of crazy stuff, just let it go. He’s gotta fill air like every other commentator out there.
As for Lou, he did a lot of shrewd managerial things and presided over some outstanding Cub teams, so kudos to him. He also seemed at times to barely be able to recall what happened in games during postgame interviews. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. The Cubs would have been just as good or terrible in 07-10 with someone else as the manager.
Chris DickersonQuote Reply
Agreed. If we could all agree on who the best manager in the history of the game was, those teams aren’t much better than they were, if at all.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]
If Kevin Millar says a bunch of crazy stuff, just let it go. He’s gotta fill air like every other commentator out there. [/quote]
Bloggers have to find something to bitch about, they need page hits just like every other guy in his mom’s basement.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]
If Kevin Millar says a bunch of crazy stuff, just let it go. He’s gotta fill air like every other commentator out there.
As for Lou, he did a lot of shrewd managerial things and presided over some outstanding Cub teams, so kudos to him. He also seemed at times to barely be able to recall what happened in games during postgame interviews. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. The Cubs would have been just as good or terrible in 07-10 with someone else as the manager.[/quote]
I agree that Millar is simply talking to hear himself talk, but he gets put on MLB Network and ESPN like he has credibility, which is just a joke.
Meanwhile, I am certain that 2009 team would have crashed and burned badly without Lou holding it together with his willpower. He gets absolutely no credit for somehow navigating that team through all the injuries and other nonsense into a position where they were in first place at the beginning of August. And even when EVERYTHING finally fell apart, he still kept them above .500. That was practically a miracle. Meanwhile some hick like Millar is going to throw him under the bus? Fuck him and his inbred sister.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I don’t believe that just anybody would have gotten that 2007 team to win the division either. Lou really got that team to change course in June of that year. He made changes and got rid of guys and the team took off. I don’t see how he doesn’t get credit for that.
melissaQuote Reply
I believe there is no such thing as a good managerial move, there is only avoiding stupid moves. As for handling players, that is where managers can differentiate themselves, some will be good, some won’t, some will be good with some players on the team and awful with others. Players have every incentive, $$$, to play as well as they possibly can. For some players to let little things like that affect them to the point they perform markedly worse, then they are either fucking petty, stupid, or both.
A GM can look to the manager to help make good personnel decisions, but once the roster is put together managers only have the ability to limit mistakes, not make the team perform over their talent, not over a 162 game season.
Bubba BiscuitQuote Reply
Marlon Byrd is going to be the death of me this season. His hack-tastic ways from last season are already grating on my nerves 4 games into this one.
SamQuote Reply
A bit late on this, but about Greg Maddux talking about pitchers going through the lineup only 3 times, I have always wondered why some AL team hasn’t honestly tried something a bit different. A 13 man pitching staff, 4 sets of 3 man groups, preferably R,L,R to maximize keeping the offense off rhythm, with each man responsible for going 3 innings then having the next 3 days off. The 13th man can be a long guy in case of extra innings or a closer type to come in during trouble.
A team like Kansas City could try this and borderline starters could give their all for 3 innings instead of having to try to hold back to last 6 innings. This system could get value out of players like Thomas Diamond and Casey Coleman of which I am sure there are more examples of across the MLB.
Bubba BiscuitQuote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]Cool rage, bro.
Complaining about managers/coaches is just a way to pass the time for lots of fans. In the span of just a few days here Quade has been critiqued for both overusing his starters (Dempster) and his bullpen (Wood). I listened to about 5 minutes of the WGN postgame call-in show yesterday to hear a couple calls of people certain Quade is over his head because of tiny detail X and Y. Whatever. As long as Quade doesn’t interfere with a live ball or pull a gun on a player or umpire, he’s fine with me.
If Kevin Millar says a bunch of crazy stuff, just let it go. He’s gotta fill air like every other commentator out there.
As for Lou, he did a lot of shrewd managerial things and presided over some outstanding Cub teams, so kudos to him. He also seemed at times to barely be able to recall what happened in games during postgame interviews. Whatever, it doesn’t matter. The Cubs would have been just as good or terrible in 07-10 with someone else as the manager.[/quote]McCheese!
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Meanwhile, I am certain that 2009 team would have crashed and burned badly without Lou holding it together with his willpower. He gets absolutely no credit for somehow navigating that team through all the injuries and other nonsense into a position where they were in first place at the beginning of August. And even when EVERYTHING finally fell apart, he still kept them above .500. That was practically a miracle.[/quote]
I guess I just disagree.
Unless you mean Lou was wise to hand the ball to Dempster, Zambrano, Harden, Wells and Lily who basically worked together with Derrek Lee to drag the dead and wounded carcasses of the rest of the roster through the season. If that’s not what you mean, then I disagree.
Chris DickersonQuote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]I guess I just disagree.
Unless you mean Lou was wise to hand the ball to Dempster, Zambrano, Harden, Wells and Lily who basically worked together with Derrek Lee to drag the dead and wounded carcasses of the rest of the roster through the season. If that’s not what you mean, then I disagree.[/quote]As bad as people claim things were with Milton, the team still won. Whether Lou was responsible for keeping them together is debatable, but if clubhouse chemistry and the moods of players were really factors in performance, things could have easily been a lot worse. I don’t buy the “I didn’t know I was going to play so I wasn’t ready” argument from Millar, but if things got really ugly or out of control, it could have had an effect. Lou just being a hard-ass probably helped prevent guys from turning really unprofessional.
But it’s all purely speculative.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Here’s something that I find interesting. The average fan will always say that so and so should be ready to do whatever the manager needs whenever the manager needs it. The reason for this is because it’s true. These guys are paid handsomely for what they do and there’s no way you can map out when they’re going to play and when they won’t. Doesn’t work that way. Never has and never will.
mb21Quote Reply
If you’re telling Blake DeWitt he’s going to play the field tomorrow, you’re doing it wrong. You can’t possibly know at what point you may want him to play, if at all.
mb21Quote Reply
(dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]I guess I just disagree.
Unless you mean Lou was wise to hand the ball to Dempster, Zambrano, Harden, Wells and Lily who basically worked together with Derrek Lee to drag the dead and wounded carcasses of the rest of the roster through the season. If that’s not what you mean, then I disagree.[/quote]Zambrano spent awhile on the DL. Harden wasn’t very good. Ramirez was injured most of the season. Soriano fell apart. Soto did too. Milton Bradley went batshit insane. Kevin Gregg blew saves like it was fun and Carlos Marmol had his worst season. And more.
I don’t credit Lou for keeping that team above .500. The fact they were is just proof of how damn good that team was. I also don’t blame Lou for what went wrong. We can’t have it both ways. Either he gets credit for some things and blame for others or none of it. I prefer none of it because it’s all subjective any way.
mb21Quote Reply
Especially nearly a year after he’s gone. People misremember the facts. We all do. I know Lou was loved by Cubs fans in 2007 and 2008 and hated in 2009 and 2010. Dusty was loved in 2003 and most of 2004 and hated in 2005 and 2006. Don Baylor was loved in 2001 and hated in 2002. Jim Riggleman was loved in 1998 and hated the rest of his years in Chicago.
There’s something that’s similar between all the years the various managers were loved. It’s staring everybody in the face.
mb21Quote Reply
The other thing I heard on Waddle and Silvy this morning was them talking about how nice Ronnie Woo’s “handlers” are. Ronnie Woo has handlers?
Unless it is someone who has been assigned by the courts to keep him from groping women constantly, I just can’t imagine what the job description is. How does one put that on a resume?
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
I don’t credit Lou for keeping that team above .500. The fact they were is just proof of how damn good that team was. I also don’t blame Lou for what went wrong. We can’t have it both ways. Either he gets credit for some things and blame for others or none of it. I prefer none of it because it’s all subjective any way.[/quote]
That is probably a better way to view it, but I’m convinced that team would have absolutely imploded under other managers. But I can’t support that with anything tangible.
Aisle424Quote Reply
IIRC Every member of the 2009 rotation spent time on the DL that year.
BerseliusQuote Reply
KEVIN MILLAR CAN DO NO WRONG. HE WON A WS WITH THE BO-SOX. HE UNDERSTANDS HOW TO KEEP A CLUBHOUSE LOOSE THROUGH THE LONG GRIND OF A SEASON. HE PLAYED THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY FOR YEARS.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]KEVIN MILLAR CAN DO NO WRONG. HE WON A WS WITH THE BO-SOX. HE UNDERSTANDS HOW TO KEEP A CLUBHOUSE LOOSE THROUGH THE LONG GRIND OF A SEASON. HE PLAYED THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY FOR YEARS.[/quote]
Finally, some sanity. This is a human being we’re talking about here.
ZappBranniganQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]IIRC Every member of the 2009 rotation spent time on the DL that year.[/quote]
Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, Harden, Lilly = 139 starts in 2009
Others:
Marshall = 9
Gorzelanny = 7
Kevin Hart = 4
F7 = 2
The main 5 starters did the overwhelming majority of starting pitching, which was good for a 3.95 FIP, 5th best in MLB amongst starters.
Lou was more or less a non-factor in the actual results in 2009, just like he was in 2008 and Quade will be in 2011.
Chris DickersonQuote Reply
[quote name=Chris Dickerson]Zambrano, Dempster, Wells, Harden, Lilly = 139 starts in 2009
Others:
Marshall = 9
Gorzelanny = 7
Kevin Hart = 4
F7 = 2
The main 5 starters did the overwhelming majority of starting pitching, which was good for a 3.95 FIP, 5th best in MLB amongst starters.
Lou was more or less a non-factor in the actual results in 2009, just like he was in 2008 and Quade will be in 2011.[/quote]
ALl 5 did hit the DL, so it’s technically correct, which is the best way to be correct.
Hermes ConradQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]That is probably a better way to view it, but I’m convinced that team would have absolutely imploded under other managers. But I can’t support that with anything tangible.[/quote]I don’t know if it’s any more accurate than what you said, A424. I just reached a conclusion several years ago that the impact of a manager is wildly overrated by the media and most of the fans. Consider, for example, that the highest paid manager in baseball makes about $4 million. The value of the win last season was $4.5 million. If a manager was worth, say, 10 wins or so, we’re talking about a guy who is more valuable than Albert Pujols and he’s going to sign a contract for close to $30 million per year.
That said, I’m open to evidence that shows otherwise and open to any opinions as well. It’s an under-researched area because it’s so hard to quantify the value of a manager.
My main issue isn’t with anyone saying a manager is more or less valuable than I believe them to be. I may well be wrong. The issue that I have is with the people who love a manager and then hate him. Then they use the evidence of why they hate him as proof he’s a poor manager. Why wouldn’t someone do the same thing two years earlier? I think based on recent Cubs managers (going back to Riggleman), we see that managers are loved when the team wins and not well liked to hated when they don’t.
Take Dusty and Lou for example. Dusty was loved for 2 years and hated for 2 years. Lou was loved for 2 years, well liked for 3 and hated for 1. Why does that one year of being hated carry more weight than the previous 3 years? If Lou was hated in year 1, well liked in year 2, and loved in years 3 and 4, we’d be hearing a different story altogether right now. What we have is the same thing is that. Based on what the fans thought of him for so long the only logical conclusion is that the fans not only liked Lou over the course of his career with the Cubs, but that he did a better job than he did a bad one.
That’s not based on anything other than emotion, but sometimes I think people need to think about these things in terms of emotions. People take their emotions and let it dictate to them what their opinions or beliefs are. We see it with politics all the time and it’s one reason why I try to avoid being involved with them. We see it with sports too.
You can’t be a good manager for 2 to 3 years and then after a down season you’re just a horrible manager that did no good. That’s what irritates me about the whole Lou business. We didn’t learn anything new about Lou in 2010 that we didn’t already know. We didn’t learn anything about Lou in 2007 that we didn’t already know.
Lou isn’t like Dusty. He’s not going to become friends with his players. He’s not going to tell them they did a good job when they didn’t. He’s going to walk to the mound in the snow in Cincy and yell at the closer for not throwing strikes. That’s Lou Piniella. It’s always been Lou Piniella.
By the way, that trip to the mound in Cincy (opening series of the year) when Dempster had lost his command in the 9th inning was one of my favorite memories of Lou. He ran out of the dugout and you could see him saying “throw some fucking strikes”. He was pointing to the light snow falling and basically telling him they aren’t going to hit anything right now with any authority. That was Lou before the Cubs and during his tenure in Chicago.
Complete opposite of Baker.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t know if it’s any more accurate than what you said, A424. I just reached a conclusion several years ago that the impact of a manager is wildly overrated by the media and most of the fans. Consider, for example, that the highest paid manager in baseball makes about $4 million. The value of the win last season was $4.5 million. If a manager was worth, say, 10 wins or so, we’re talking about a guy who is more valuable than Albert Pujols and he’s going to sign a contract for close to $30 million per year.
That said, I’m open to evidence that shows otherwise and open to any opinions as well. It’s an under-researched area because it’s so hard to quantify the value of a manager.
My main issue isn’t with anyone saying a manager is more or less valuable than I believe them to be. I may well be wrong. The issue that I have is with the people who love a manager and then hate him. Then they use the evidence of why they hate him as proof he’s a poor manager. Why wouldn’t someone do the same thing two years earlier? I think based on recent Cubs managers (going back to Riggleman), we see that managers are loved when the team wins and not well liked to hated when they don’t.
Take Dusty and Lou for example. Dusty was loved for 2 years and hated for 2 years. Lou was loved for 2 years, well liked for 3 and hated for 1. Why does that one year of being hated carry more weight than the previous 3 years? If Lou was hated in year 1, well liked in year 2, and loved in years 3 and 4, we’d be hearing a different story altogether right now. What we have is the same thing is that. Based on what the fans thought of him for so long the only logical conclusion is that the fans not only liked Lou over the course of his career with the Cubs, but that he did a better job than he did a bad one.
That’s not based on anything other than emotion, but sometimes I think people need to think about these things in terms of emotions. People take their emotions and let it dictate to them what their opinions or beliefs are. We see it with politics all the time and it’s one reason why I try to avoid being involved with them. We see it with sports too.
You can’t be a good manager for 2 to 3 years and then after a down season you’re just a horrible manager that did no good. That’s what irritates me about the whole Lou business. We didn’t learn anything new about Lou in 2010 that we didn’t already know. We didn’t learn anything about Lou in 2007 that we didn’t already know.
Lou isn’t like Dusty. He’s not going to become friends with his players. He’s not going to tell them they did a good job when they didn’t. He’s going to walk to the mound in the snow in Cincy and yell at the closer for not throwing strikes. That’s Lou Piniella. It’s always been Lou Piniella.
By the way, that trip to the mound in Cincy (opening series of the year) when Dempster had lost his command in the 9th inning was one of my favorite memories of Lou. He ran out of the dugout and you could see him saying “throw some fucking strikes”. He was pointing to the light snow falling and basically telling him they aren’t going to hit anything right now with any authority. That was Lou before the Cubs and during his tenure in Chicago.
Complete opposite of Baker.[/quote]
False.
BerseliusQuote Reply
I don’t disagree at all, but like I said, I think they’re all more or less a non-factor. All of them actually.
The point others are making though is that the team fell apart. Ramirez, Soriano, Soto, Theriot declined, Fontenot turned out to suck, Gregg sucked, Marmol had his worst season. We can’t just point to the rotation remaining relatively healthy and say, “there.” The team was hit by injuries and ineffectiveness like I’d never seen before. They still won 83 games.
I say that’s because they were a good 95 win team entering the season and with all those injuries they became an 83 win team.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]False.[/quote]That’s the worst thing every done on this blog.
mb21Quote Reply
That’s definitely one of my favorite Lou moments. Though IIRC it was a mound visit, though the briefest one I ever saw (dying laughing). He walked out, said 4 words, then walked back.
BerseliusQuote Reply
That Millar image up top is still cracking me up.
mb21Quote Reply
It was a mound visit, but Lou started yelling at Dempster once he crossed the 3rd base line. He was pointing to the conditions and telling him to throw some fucking strikes.
Even last year Lou made more mound visits than any other manager in baseball. I just have a hard time believing the guy didn’t care. Losing took a tremendous toll on him and you could tell later in the season. The same thing was true in Tampa Bay. He looked defeated that final year in Tampa Bay.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]That Millar image up top is still cracking me up.[/quote]
I pulled that from Aisle 424 when I did a post after they signed Millar to make all the bad clubhouse shit magically go away.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Koenig, Raymond R.]Anyone who thinks Piniella was a good manager for the Cubs is wrong.[/quote]
Based on what? Piniella was the best manager the Cubs have had in my lifetime, and I’ll be 31 next week.
shadasrevengeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]He only had that one blowup. His fiery days were long gone by the time he came to Chicago. I guess I don’t see how a guy who runs out about 120 lineups per season, gets criticized for double switching and defensive replacements could be called asleep at the wheel. Clearly the guy was paying every bit of his attention to the game. More than anybody else I’d bet.[/quote]
Don’t forget putting Sean Marshall in left field against the Cardinals.
shadasrevengeQuote Reply
If dying in a fire would keep his team loose, Kevin Millar would do it.
GBTSQuote Reply
Marshall in LF was one of the most entertaining moments in his nearly 4 years. I loved the blow up and the Dempster mound visit in the snow, but Marshall in LF was potentially brilliant. It’s something that managers actually don’t use, but should in the later innings. The Book ran through some numbers to show it would pay off. I was thrilled when Lou did it.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=shadasrevenge]Based on what? Piniella was the best manager the Cubs have had in my lifetime, and I’ll be 31 next week.[/quote]Easily the best manager in my lifetime and I started watching this team in 1980 at the age of 5.
mb21Quote Reply
I don’t use the term “hero” very often. But this man is the greatest hero in American history: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_AerCVhoTM
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Easily the best manager in my lifetime and I started watching this team in 1980 at the age of 5.[/quote]That recently?
GBTSQuote Reply
I didn’t respond to this because there’s only one response to a statement like this: did that person think Lou was a good manager in 2007 and 2008? If the answer to that question is yes, their current opinion has little to do with the manager.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=shadasrevenge]Don’t forget putting Sean Marshall in left field against the Cardinals.[/quote]
That is my all time favorite Lou moment. The Cubs still lost the game, but it was ballsy and brilliant. Everybody around me was wondering what the hell was going on and I was just standing there and applauding. It was beautiful.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]That is my all time favorite Lou moment. The Cubs still lost the game, but it was ballsy and brilliant. Everybody around me was wondering what the hell was going on and I was just standing there and applauding. It was beautiful.[/quote]
Hell, when a red-ass like LaRussa thinks it was a brilliant move, you know it was great. The only thing that would have made it better would have been Marshall getting a ball hit his way.
If memory serves, that was one of the more entertaining 4-3 games I’ve ever seen.
shadasrevengeQuote Reply
To switch gears completely, who in the front office scheduled this series to be all day games? It’s hard to imagine that 3 April night games against D-Backs would draw really well, but there couldn’t have been more than 15-20K at the ballpark today, and it’ll be that way tomorrow and Wednesday as well.
Oh, and the Brewers are 0-4.
shadasrevengeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]That is my all time favorite Lou moment. The Cubs still lost the game, but it was ballsy and brilliant. Everybody around me was wondering what the hell was going on and I was just standing there and applauding. It was beautiful.[/quote]
I also liked that one game where he had Baker and Soriano do the cha-cha between 2B and 3B.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
sr, the org would prefer they they are all night games. But given that it’s april it’s probably better that they play when it is relatively warm.
BerseliusQuote Reply
The MLB.com videos of Quade’s conferences after the game for the past couple times are 11 minutes long and 8 minutes long, respectively. I wonder if that was just for one response or if the reporters got a word in edgewise. I’m afraid to watch.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
We should be honored to have two of Millar’s relatives commenting here.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]We should be honored to have two of Millar’s relatives commenting here.[/quote]Colby rasmus’s relatives approve.
BerseliusQuote Reply
FYI…
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/04/carlos-pena-day-to-day-with-sprained-thumb/
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]FYI…
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/04/04/carlos-pena-day-to-day-with-sprained-thumb/%5B/quote%5D
In other words, 27 errors tomorrow.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]In other words, 27 errors tomorrow.[/quote]
Is that before or after we record an out?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Pirates > Cardinals.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
The next time Kevin Millar says something smart will be the first time.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I really hope Kevin Millar has a google alert for his name.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I really hope Kevin Millar has a google alert for his name.[/quote]You’re assuming Kevin Millar knows how to do something with his poseable digits beyond peeling easily exploited fruits.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You’re assuming Kevin Millar knows how to do something with his poseable digits beyond peeling easily exploited fruits.[/quote]
(dying laughing) I said I hope not that I think it’s likely.
melissaQuote Reply
Milton Bradley today: 3-for-4 with a double and a run scored.
Wish they’d given him another chance.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Milton Bradley today: 3-for-4 with a double and a run scored.
Wish they’d given him another chance.[/quote]
He hasn’t been very good since he left and I’m glad he’s not here for fans and media to constantly bitch about.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]He hasn’t been very good since he left and I’m glad he’s not here for fans and media to constantly bitch about.[/quote]
Yeah, it’s good that he’s not in a toxic environment anymore but I think the OBP skillz would’ve eventually shone through again.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Bradley’s OBP in 2010 was .292 and his OPS was .641.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Yeah, it’s good that he’s not in a toxic environment anymore but I think the OBP skillz would’ve eventually shone through again.[/quote]
I honestly don’t think his skills are good enough to warrant his level of assholishness. Bonds was elite and was worth puttincg up with his shit. Bradley just isn’t.
While we were paying him on an inexplicable 3-year deal, I wanted everyone to just leave him the fuck alone and let him do what he does, but now that he’s gone, I have no desire to give him a second chance with our Chatty Kathy manager.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Yeah, it’s good that he’s not in a toxic environment anymore but I think the OBP skillz would’ve eventually shone through again.[/quote]
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
^ Like.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
The funny thing about Kevin Millar’s comments that I’m only just now realizing is funny: it’s the exact same thing some guys who play slow-pitch softball complain about. There was one dude that everyone would laugh at who would always bitch to the coach about not being given a heads up about when he was coming out of the game. He got laughed at. I didn’t realize Kevin Millar was that same brand of moron.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]The funny thing about Kevin Millar’s comments that I’m only just now realizing is funny: it’s the exact same thing some guys who play slow-pitch softball complain about. There was one dude that everyone would laugh at who would always bitch to the coach about not being given a heads up about when he was coming out of the game. He got laughed at. I didn’t realize Kevin Millar was that same brand of moron.[/quote]Wasn’t Millar an NRI? I bet there’s not one fucking MLB manager that even speaks to the fucking NRIs, let alone notify them when they’re going in. You’re a fuckign NRI. You better stay fucking ready. Millar is a mouthbreathing fuckspittle.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Wasn’t Millar an NRI? I bet there’s not one fucking MLB manager that even speaks to the fucking NRIs, let alone notify them when they’re going in. You’re a fuckign NRI. You better stay fucking ready. Millar is a mouthbreathing fuckspittle.[/quote]
MO channels his inner Roald Dahl… (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Mouthbreathing fuckspittle? Millar is living the dream. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
Mouthbreathing fuckspittles everywhere are now boycotting this blog as a protest for being lumped in with Millar.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Can we put college basketball down already?
GBTSQuote Reply
Butler shot 18% from the field. That’s almost as bad as Koyie Hill hits.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Can we put college basketball down already?[/quote]There are two Bill Hicks live shows on Netflix view instant. No idea why anyone not named Kevin Millar would be watching college basketball right now.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Butler shot 18% from the field. That’s almost as bad as Koyie Hill hits.[/quote]But Koyie’s a carpenter, not a bricklayer.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Fact: I would rather watch Derrick Rose play basketball for 30 seconds than Butler for 40 minutes.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Wasn’t Millar an NRI? I bet there’s not one fucking MLB manager that even speaks to the fucking NRIs, let alone notify them when they’re going in. You’re a fuckign NRI. You better stay fucking ready. Millar is a mouthbreathing fuckspittle.[/quote]
Hey, he invented “Cowboy Up”. That should command instant respect from any manager.
BerseliusQuote Reply
I have to say, I love seeing the Cardinals at 1-3 and the Brewers at 0-4. It’s not going to last, but it’s certainly not killing my optimism (dying laughing).
BerseliusQuote Reply
Preview for tomorrow’s game from HP
http://www.cubsfx.com/2011/04/visitor-on-important-day-barry-enright.htm
BerseliusQuote Reply
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/some-predictions-that-will-be-right/
(dying laughing)
PerkinsQuote Reply
I was promised forest gif
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I was promised forest gif[/quote]
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Chris Carpenter is getting the bullpen test
“The I-Cubs Opening Day roster features nine players currently on the Cubs 40-man roster. Chris Carpenter will begin the year in Iowa’s pen.”
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Also:
Minor league opening rosters
http://chicagocubsonline.com/archives/2011/04/cubsminorroster.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Chicagocubsonlinecom+%28ChicagoCubsOnline.com%29&utm_content=Twitter#
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I didn’t respond to this because there’s only one response to a statement like this: did that person think Lou was a good manager in 2007 and 2008? If the answer to that question is yes, their current opinion has little to do with the manager.[/quote]
No, I didn’t think Piniella was a good manager then either. He was the wrong hire and he was a bad manager during his years with the Cubs.
Koenig, Raymond R.Quote Reply
Here’s the problem, others have offered evidence to why he was a good manager. Simply stating he wasn’t a good manager doesn’t refute the earlier evidence. It’s not evidence by itself. In order to show he’s a bad manager you have to show how his actions with the Cubs were noticeably different from other managers in a negative way. I’m open to hearing about this, but it appears you have your mind made up and would be unwilling to change it regardless of anything else. There’s not much of a discussion that can be had if that’s the truth. Certainly not anything meaningful or worth our time.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Chris Carpenter is getting the bullpen test
“The I-Cubs Opening Day roster features nine players currently on the Cubs 40-man roster. Chris Carpenter will begin the year in Iowa’s pen.”[/quote]Sounds more like it’s a permanent move.
mb21Quote Reply
Which I’m OK with. I haven’t read too many scouts who thought he could be successful at the big league level as a starter. His numbers were good, but far from great. He’s not exactly a young player. He’s had numerous injuries.
mb21Quote Reply
KLaw tweeted that injury history is likely a big part of the move to the bullpen.
MishQuote Reply
MIL ——–> 0-4
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]MIL ——–> 0-4[/quote]That’s not a forest gif.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]That’s not a forest gif.[/quote]
I can’t seem to find the most recent one. Here’s the most recent one I can find.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Which I’m OK with. I haven’t read too many scouts who thought he could be successful at the big league level as a starter. His numbers were good, but far from great. He’s not exactly a young player. He’s had numerous injuries.[/quote]
Hasnt he been reasonably healthy as a starter for us?? Anyways i see where you are coming from. I am not completely sold on him being a starter. However i might have let him try. Then again apparently he brings the ruckus as a reliever so if he can do that at a very high level we could have a super nasty throwing pen
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
There’s just too much wrong going on in that image.
mb21Quote Reply
new thread up: http://obstructedview.net/articles/major-league-baseball/the-stats-we-use-baserunning.html
mb21Quote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply