I love Wrigley Field. I love watching games there. I love that it is nestled into the neighborhood and it has become the focal point of the local businesses in the area. I love the absence of a scoreboard that doesn’t tell me when to cheer. I love the minimal advertising that assaults my eyes when watching a game.
People think because I don’t want to ignore the falling concrete, the rapidly aging support beams, the perpetual smell of urine, and the inability to move around the park without experiencing gridlock that makes all but the worst rush hour traffic the Kennedy has to offer seem tame by comparison, means that I hate Wrigley Field. I don’t. I wouldn’t have spent fifty or so games per year for thirteen straight seasons there if I hated it.
But there comes a time when people have to start being honest with themselves and what kind of viability Wrigley Field has left. It’s kind of like trying to decide when a beloved pet nears the end of its life.
My cat is approaching 17 years old. He’s an old cat. He doesn’t jump and play with string anymore. He is the only cat I have ever seen that has grown bored with chasing the laser beam. I have no idea how he can possibly sleep more than he did when he was a young cat, but he does. Sometimes he loses his balance and falls off the couch. He’s an old cat and he has been a companion of mine for basically his entire life (and almost half of mine), but I have no false hopes that he’ll be around forever. At some point, as his health eventually will fail, him being around will be more for my enjoyment than his. I’m not looking forward to that day.
Wrigley is an old ballpark. It can’t keep up with modern stadiums in revenue generation. It is restricted by neighborhood zoning and its landmark status from adding advertisements. Its scoreboard doesn’t provide much beyond the most basic stats that modern fans want to know. Sometimes pieces of it fall off. It is nearing the end of its life and I’m not looking forward to that day either.
While we, as fans, are willing to look past many of Wrigley’s problems because we love the view so much, we ignore how Wrigley Field is currently hurting the Cubs. They have to spend millions per year just in general upkeep to prevent more of it from breaking off than already does. They still haven’t removed the netting that was put in place in 2004 to catch pieces that broke off. You don’t think that if they had fixed it adequately enough to the point where they were 100% sure more wouldn’t break off that those nets would still be there, do you? They are constant and blatant reminders of the park’s age and fragility. They would not be there if the Cubs weren’t worried that they might be necessary.
The facilities are a joke. Take the Wrigley tour if you don’t believe me. The Cubs home locker room is barely on par with my Division III school’s facilities, and we are dead last in our conference as far as athletic amenities. I’ll say that again. The Cubs are struggling to keep up with facilities that are years behind current NCAA Division III facilities.
So they are at a competitive disadvantage from a monetary standpoint and from a preparation standpoint simply because Wrigley Field is old. So why not fix it?
Because the Rickett’s plan to revamp the stadium and dig under the field to increase the players’ facilities is already ballparked at costing $500 million. Would there be anyone shocked if the price tag eventually crept up into the $750 million or even $1 BILLION range? We’re talking about wholesale replacement of foundational supports and girders that are essentially orginal parts of the ballpark. That ain’t going to be cheap. It would almost necessitate shutting down at least parts of the stadium to accomplish, and that is going to cost the team revenue that it can’t spare because it is already in violation of MLB’s debt ratio policies. Where is this money going to come from? The bankrupt state of Illinois?
All the while, the expectation of a good part of the fanbase is that the Cubs maintain a competitive payroll, increase the scouting and development budget, spend their own money to preserve all the parts of the stadium that they love while increasing the amenities, and not raising ticket prices along the way. They would also like a solid gold house and a rocket car.
This would be like asking my cat to climb to the top of the refridgerator to be able to get to his food and water, making him learn to use a doorknob to get to his litterbox, and then using the pooper scooper all on his own.
I simply don’t see how all of the necessary renovations can be made while simultaeously keeping them in the park to keep the revenues stable, keeping ticket prices down, maintaining a seriously competitive team on the field, and not taking money for signage or naming rights. I also don’t see how acknowledging this makes us less of a baseball or Cubs fan.
I will enjoy the time I have left with Schultz for as long as possible. For as long as he wants to curl up on my lap, try to pretend like he’s invisible as he “sneaks” towards my pizza, or headbutts me in the face when he wants me to scratch him behind the ears, I’ll be happy to have him around.
Likewise, I’ll go to Wrigley and enjoy the ivy. I’ll take in the sun and the atmosphere and love every minute I’m there as a getaway from the hum drum of actual life. I’ll continue to hope and pray that somehow, the Cubs can exceed expectations for once while they reside in the park so that we can enjoy a World Series in that building.
But when Schultz gets sick and can’t maintain his health, we’ll have a decision to make, and I hope I am strong enough to make the one that isn’t based on my own selfish desires.
Wrigley is sick. Demanding that the Cubs spend enormous time, energy, and money on something that is probably beyond realistic hope of saving is selfish on our part and it only hurts the Cubs’ abilities to move forward in the new reality of major league baseball.
Do we have the strength to say goodbye when it comes time? I hope so.
Comments
THIS! Never thought about it like that, but it’s exactly like that.
mb21Quote Reply
This is an outstanding article.
mb21Quote Reply
Are the Ricketts transparent enough with their finances that we know exactly how much revenue that the Cubs can generate per annum even in a shitty year like this? And have studies actually shown how much of said revenue must go towards upkeep and maintenance?
Good post.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Really great piece. Is this website trying to become un
discrediteddisinterested?WaLiQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]This is an outstanding article.[/quote]
Thanks, MB. Schultz gave his approval too. At least, that’s how I chose to interpret him trying to sleep on my laptop.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Thanks, MB. Schultz gave his approval too. At least, that’s how I chose to interpret him trying to sleep on my laptop.[/quote]
I was actually not aware that cats could live that long, I thought it was 15 years max. But then again I didn’t know cats could vomit until I petted my friend’s cat in high school and it horked all over the place. I thought I broke it.
/cool story bro
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Are the Ricketts transparent enough with their finances that we know exactly how much revenue that the Cubs can generate per annum even in a shitty year like this? And have studies actually shown how much of said revenue must go towards upkeep and maintenance?
Good post.[/quote]
I doubt any baseball team is that transparent. They don’t have to be. But in looking for articles about the viability of the structure (I swear I read about a study they did in the early 90s), I found stuff from 2004 after the concrete fell where MacPhail was talking about the millions they pour into the ballpark every year just to keep it from falling apart more than it does.
Aisle424Quote Reply
The last I saw was a Forbes report from last year or maybe earlier where the Cubs were in the top 5 or top 10 in revenue, but there was a mention that because of the lack of advertising, their revenue streams are pretty much contingent on ticket sales, concessions, and souvenirs/merchandise.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]The last I saw was a Forbes report from last year or maybe earlier where the Cubs were in the top 5 or top 10 in revenue, but there was a mention that because of the lack of advertising, their revenue streams are pretty much contingent on ticket sales, concessions, and souvenirs/merchandise.[/quote]
I’d bet that is pretty true. It’s why they want their own TV channel and everything. Those revenues probably don’t fluctuate nearly as much on a year to year basis.
Aisle424Quote Reply
RF Fuke
SS Castro
3B Ramy
1B Pena
LF DeWitt,
C Soto
2B Baker
CF Johnson
P Wells
Barney apparently hurt his knee on the slide yesterday.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Thanks, MB. Schultz gave his approval too. At least, that’s how I chose to interpret him trying to sleep on my laptop.[/quote]Right before I read the first paragraph on your cat I was thinking of my dog so it was just perfect. My dog turns 12 in November and she sleeps all the time. She doesn’t play much. She can’t jump in the car and she has no interest in jumping out of my truck. She gets up to get a drink of water and she limps for a few steps. She just looks old. She’s also still quite playful at times so she’s got awhile yet, but you can’t help but think about that day when you see her limping around or sleeping nonstop.
Like you, I hope I’m strong enough to make the right decision for her. I can’t imagine doing it.
17 years for a cat. That’s a long time, isn’t it?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]RF Fuke
SS Castro
3B Ramy
1B Pena
LF DeWitt,
C Soto
2B Baker
CF Johnson
P Wells
Barney apparently hurt his knee on the slide yesterday.[/quote]
And here I thought Q was being nice and giving him a day off.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’d be surprised if the Cubs can do the renovation at Wrigley that we’ve heard about for less than $600 million. At that point, don’t you have to start thinking new ballpark?
mb21Quote Reply
Maybe Barney is just pretending to be hurt because Q refuses to rest him.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Maybe Barney is just pretending to be hurt because Q refuses to rest him.[/quote]
It just might work!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’d be surprised if the Cubs can do the renovation at Wrigley that we’ve heard about for less than $600 million. At that point, don’t you have to start thinking new ballpark?[/quote]
The city, the state, the fans, the neighborhood, and the Ricketts would never allow that. Although Daddy Ricketts may threaten to cut Tommy off.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
17 years for a cat. That’s a long time, isn’t it?[/quote]
It’s getting up there. I’ve heard of cats living 20+ years and Schultz has been remarkably healthy his whole life, so I hope he’ll be around for at least a couple more years.
He still eats and drinks like he always has, so I figure he must be feeling good, but just old. But so am I, so we get along just fine.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Maybe Barney is just pretending to be hurt because Q refuses to rest him.[/quote]It’s possible Q told Barney he’d get injured on June 13th and he has to stick to the plan.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It’s getting up there. I’ve heard of cats living 20+ years and Schultz has been remarkably healthy his whole life, so I hope he’ll be around for at least a couple more years.
He still eats and drinks like he always has, so I figure he must be feeling good, but just old. But so am I, so we get along just fine.[/quote]
I’m very glad that you take care of your pussy.
But seriously, that speaks to good pet care and ownership as well as the cat’s health, so that’s commendable.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]The city, the state, the fans, the neighborhood, and the Ricketts would never allow that. Although Daddy Ricketts may threaten to cut Tommy off.[/quote]
You forgot about Bud Selig and MLB. Part of the approval process for any buyer of the Cubs was that they would keep the team at Wrigley Field. Ricketts isn’t even willing to use leaving Wrigley as a bargaining chip to get money from the State of IL. The Bears and Sox both threatened to move and made arrangements with Gary, IN and St. Pete to force the state’s hand. This is a great article but it’s not the fans that need to accept that Wrigley should be put down it’s MLB and the Ricketts family. They aren’t on board and I don’t expect that to change.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It’s getting up there. I’ve heard of cats living 20+ years and Schultz has been remarkably healthy his whole life, so I hope he’ll be around for at least a couple more years.
He still eats and drinks like he always has, so I figure he must be feeling good, but just old. But so am I, so we get along just fine.[/quote]It’s kind of funny how quickly you start to feel old. 5 years ago I thought of myself as young. A few years later I felt older than I was. Very weird.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]The city, the state, the fans, the neighborhood, and the Ricketts would never allow that. Although Daddy Ricketts may threaten to cut Tommy off.[/quote]
The city and the state don’t have the money. Would MLB have a problem funding a stadium through money raised by the new casinos?
The fans will bitch and moan, but I don’t see them having a Bake Sale to raise the money and unless the team is better, they’re not going to put up with drastically raised ticket prices to take a dent out of the costs.
Papa may be the only answer and I can’t believe a savvy businessman like Joe Ricketts would sink another $500-$600 million of his own money into this venture. He didn’t get where he is by pissing money away by the hundreds of millions.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa] This is a great article but it’s not the fans that need to accept that Wrigley should be put down it’s MLB and the Ricketts family. They aren’t on board and I don’t expect that to change.[/quote]
It won’t change unless the fans accept Wrigley is holding the Cubs back. That will never happen, so you’re right that MLB and the Ricketts will never change their thinking, but I’d bet my life that they’d sing a different tune if 90% of Cubs fans took the view that Wrigley’s time is past.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Wait, why did they let the Yankees blow up old Yankee Stadium then?
(serious question…I don’t know)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Sullivan:
Nice snark.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Good point, Melissa. The fact the Cubs never used the possibility of moving as leverage with the state says it all: Cubs aren’t moving away from Wrigley for a long time. They’ll continue to fork over millions and millions each year that could be spent on payroll rather than that.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It won’t change unless the fans accept Wrigley is holding the Cubs back. That will never happen, so you’re right that MLB and the Ricketts will never change their thinking, but I’d bet my life that they’d sing a different tune if 90% of Cubs fans took the view that Wrigley’s time is past.[/quote]
I don’t disagree with you but Selig and Ricketts seem to believe, just like fans, that Wrigley is some special monument that can’t be left. I don’t think they are taking their cues from fans, it’s their own honest belief. I truly believe that they think Wrigley is special and it must be saved. How do you expect fans that believe this to change their minds when the leadership at the top thinks the same thing and is going to do nothing to change that public perception?
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It won’t change unless the fans accept Wrigley is holding the Cubs back. That will never happen, so you’re right that MLB and the Ricketts will never change their thinking, but I’d bet my life that they’d sing a different tune if 90% of Cubs fans took the view that Wrigley’s time is past.[/quote]I agree with that.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s possible Q told Barney he’d get injured on June 13th and he has to stick to the plan.[/quote]
Barney doesn’t need a day off. He’s young and should play all 162 games. Shake it off!
*sigh*
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Ricketts may have to try to sell Wrigley to the state, get them to pay for rehab and lease it back. That’s what the Sox do. I don’t think it’s a viable idea in this economic climate though. The fact that the Cubs don’t have their own network really hamstrings them as well. If they had their own TV network I don’t think any of this would be an issue. The Red Sox had no problem rehabbing Fenway and that was due in large part to their TV network.
melissaQuote Reply
Wrigley isn’t going to be around forever. There’s no chance that happens. The Cubs will inevitably play in a new ballpark at some point. No idea when, but it will happen. I’d just rather it be now so they can maximize profits while I’m still a fan.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21] while I’m still a fan.[/quote]
between now and the day they hire ned colletti? not going to happen.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa] The fact that the Cubs don’t have their own network really hamstrings them as well. If they had their own TV network I don’t think any of this would be an issue. The Red Sox had no problem rehabbing Fenway and that was due in large part to their TV network.[/quote]
Excellent point. When is the contract with Comcast up? It’s not for awhile, if I remember correctly.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Excellent point. When is the contract with Comcast up? It’s not for awhile, if I remember correctly.[/quote]
Methunk part of the sale was a large stake in CSN?
Also, if they allowed the Yankees to blow up the House That Ruth Built…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Excellent point. When is the contract with Comcast up? It’s not for awhile, if I remember correctly.[/quote]
Is it 7 or 8 years? I’m not sure and I’m too lazy to look it up right now. I’m pretty sure it’s at least that long. One more avenue where Zell screwed Ricketts and made him pay for the privilege.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Methunk part of the sale was a large stake in CSN?
Also, if they allowed the Yankees to blow up the House That Ruth Built…[/quote]
The Cubs have an equal share in Comcast with the Sox, Blackhawks and Bulls which means they also split profits equally. This is bad for the Cubs because they are generating more revenue yet they have to equally share the profits.
melissaQuote Reply
This was a fantastic post, Tim.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Wait, why did they let the Yankees blow up old Yankee Stadium then?
(serious question…I don’t know)[/quote]Because public funding built the new one. Whether it’s the right thing for the Cubs or not, I would be stunned if the league OK’d any action, whether it’s replacement or rehab, without the city or state picking up the tab. It would set a bad precedent if those slimy fucks actually had to pay for something out of their own pockets…
uncle daveQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]This was a fantastic post, Tim.[/quote]
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
But seriously, Tim, this is really, really, excellent work. The only worthwhile thing written by anyone writing about the Cubs about Wrigley.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Right before I read the first paragraph on your cat I was thinking of my dog so it was just perfect. My dog turns 12 in November and she sleeps all the time. She doesn’t play much. She can’t jump in the car and she has no interest in jumping out of my truck. She gets up to get a drink of water and she limps for a few steps. She just looks old. She’s also still quite playful at times so she’s got awhile yet, but you can’t help but think about that day when you see her limping around or sleeping nonstop.
[/quote]
I know what you mean, MB. We have a 12 year old dog who went blind a year or two ago and mostly just sleeps all the time. Luckily aside from the vision problems she’s generally healthy but she’s definitely a different dog now.
We had another dog that died a few years back who had serious heart problems, and after he nearly died just before Christmas our vet told us he probably wouldn’t make it through the winter. He reacted *very* well to his meds but the vet said that when things go south they would in a hurry. Unfortunately it happened while I was out of town and my wife had to deal with putting him to sleep on the same day that our blind dog was having an eye removed all by herself. We knew his days were numbered, but it was lucky for us that he got to be his old self up until the end, and we made sure to cherish the time we had with him.
/cool story bro
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I know what you mean, MB. We have a 12 year old dog who went blind a year or two ago and mostly just sleeps all the time. Luckily aside from the vision problems she’s generally healthy but she’s definitely a different dog now.
We had another dog that died a few years back who had serious heart problems, and after he nearly died just before Christmas our vet told us he probably wouldn’t make it through the winter. He reacted *very* well to his meds but the vet said that when things go south they would in a hurry. Unfortunately it happened while I was out of town and my wife had to deal with putting him to sleep on the same day that our blind dog was having an eye removed all by herself. We knew his days were numbered, but it was lucky for us that he got to be his old self up until the end, and we made sure to cherish the time we had with him.
/cool story bro[/quote]This is almost as sad as the Futurama dog episode. Almost.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]This is almost as sad as the Futurama dog episode. Almost.[/quote]
Nothing can top Jurassic Bark. The saddest thing ever on TV.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]between now and the day they hire ned colletti? not going to happen.[/quote](dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
I think the moral of this thread is that when you have a pet, make sure you savor every moment. (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I think the moral of this thread is that when you have a pet, make sure you savor every moment. (dying laughing)[/quote]I used to think you were a good person.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I meant to add in the post above that the heart-problem dog above lived for another 9 months, and was running around happily at the city dog park (his favorite place) a few days before he died. His blood pressure meds were diuretics so even though we took him out all the time he still pissed all over the house, especially in the one carpeted room in the whole place. He was very good at playing the “I’m dying, don’t be mad at me” eyes at us (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I used to think you were a good person.[/quote]
I only come here to cause trouble.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius] His blood pressure meds were diuretics so even though we took him out all the time he still pissed all over the house, especially in the one carpeted room in the whole place. [/quote]
Is that like a misting station?
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Nothing can top Jurassic Bark. The saddest thing ever on TV.[/quote]Without a doubt.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I only come here to cause trouble.[/quote]Consider yourself warned.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Schultz hasn’t started pissing in the house yet (besides his designated litter box), which is a large part of the reason he hasn’t been whacked by Kris.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I know what you mean, MB. We have a 12 year old dog who went blind a year or two ago and mostly just sleeps all the time. Luckily aside from the vision problems she’s generally healthy but she’s definitely a different dog now.
We had another dog that died a few years back who had serious heart problems, and after he nearly died just before Christmas our vet told us he probably wouldn’t make it through the winter. He reacted *very* well to his meds but the vet said that when things go south they would in a hurry. Unfortunately it happened while I was out of town and my wife had to deal with putting him to sleep on the same day that our blind dog was having an eye removed all by herself. We knew his days were numbered, but it was lucky for us that he got to be his old self up until the end, and we made sure to cherish the time we had with him.
/cool story bro[/quote]I remember when your dog had the heart issues (and that your dog was blind). Haven’t you written about them on your old blog or maybe we discussed it in emails. Either way, that had to make your wife feel shitty dealing with that.
I’ve thought about getting another dog recently, but that wouldn’t work out. The one I have has never been very friendly. Not toward people and definitely not toward animals. She tries to play with other dogs, but it doesn’t last. She really wants to and it almost seems as though she’s disappointed she can’t, but she or the other dog (or both) would get hurt.
I don’t really know why. She was around dogs when she was young and was around people too. As she’s gotten older she’s just become a massive bitch when she’s around people.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]But seriously, Tim, this is really, really, excellent work. The only worthwhile thing written by anyone writing about the Cubs about Wrigley.[/quote]
Let’s not get ridiculous, MO. (dying laughing)
But thanks.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Lots of line drives tonight.
/following game
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I meant to add in the post above that the heart-problem dog above lived for another 9 months, and was running around happily at the city dog park (his favorite place) a few days before he died. His blood pressure meds were diuretics so even though we took him out all the time he still pissed all over the house, especially in the one carpeted room in the whole place. He was very good at playing the “I’m dying, don’t be mad at me” eyes at us (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing) and what are you going to do? Get mad the dog with heart problems? They’re not stupid.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Let’s not get ridiculous, MO. (dying laughing)
But thanks.[/quote]Don’t tell him what to do.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Let’s not get ridiculous, MO. (dying laughing)
But thanks.[/quote](dying laughing), I suppose I am given to hyperbole, but this is really good stuff.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Lots of line drives tonight.
/following game[/quote]
Little League Cubs in the field.
CormsQuote Reply
I’m expecting Fielder to hit a 3 run bomb onto Sheffield here.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Don’t tell him what to do.[/quote]Don’t tell him what not to do.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I remember when your dog had the heart issues (and that your dog was blind). Haven’t you written about them on your old blog or maybe we discussed it in emails. Either way, that had to make your wife feel shitty dealing with that.
I’ve thought about getting another dog recently, but that wouldn’t work out. The one I have has never been very friendly. Not toward people and definitely not toward animals. She tries to play with other dogs, but it doesn’t last. She really wants to and it almost seems as though she’s disappointed she can’t, but she or the other dog (or both) would get hurt.
I don’t really know why. She was around dogs when she was young and was around people too. As she’s gotten older she’s just become a massive bitch when she’s around people.[/quote]
Yeah, it was tough. We were hoping he could hold on until I got back in two days but he was in such bad shape that it would have been cruel to keep him around. He couldn’t even keep water down.
We adopted some new dogs (a bonded pair) last summer to help our old dog out with the move, since she’s had a hard time adjusting to new places since going blind but for the most part they ignore each other. Kira (the blind dog) was always indifferent towards other dogs but loves people. When we went to the dog park she would ignore the other dogs and walk over to their people to get attention from them instead.
BerseliusQuote Reply
We need to bring back Shawn and whoever else was around for that ACB roundtable where we all spent the first 45 minutes talking about our dogs instead of baseball (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Don’t tell him what not to do.[/quote]
Don’t tell him what he was supposed to do and now is not supposed to do.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Corms]Little League Cubs in the field.[/quote]They’re just awful defensively.
mb21Quote Reply
Great stop by Castro up the middle.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Great stop by Castro up the middle.[/quote]
He’s made two great stops tonight, unfortunately he threw one of them away. Not as bad as Wells’ shot put into foul territory on Morgan’s bunt.
CormsQuote Reply
[quote name=Corms]He’s made two great stops tonight, unfortunately he threw one of them away. Not as bad as Wells’ shot put into foul territory on Morgan’s bunt.[/quote]
Makes me glad I can’t watch.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Don’t tell him what he was supposed to do and now is not supposed to do.[/quote]
What am I supposed to do?
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Yeah, it was tough. We were hoping he could hold on until I got back in two days but he was in such bad shape that it would have been cruel to keep him around. He couldn’t even keep water down.
We adopted some new dogs (a bonded pair) last summer to help our old dog out with the move, since she’s had a hard time adjusting to new places since going blind but for the most part they ignore each other. Kira (the blind dog) was always indifferent towards other dogs but loves people. When we went to the dog park she would ignore the other dogs and walk over to their people to get attention from them instead.[/quote]I’ve always wished my dog was more friendly with people than she is. She’s very loving with people she knows. There’s even this one plumber that has come over many times over the last 9 years that she’s become very friendly with. It’s like the plumber is part of the extended family. If I’m walking her I won’t let people come up to her because she’ll go crazy. She’s never bitten anybody before, but I’m very cautious. If children come to her, I have to get down on my knees next to her or she’ll angrily bark at them. If I get down on my knees she’s always very good and will let the kids pet her. Weird.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]What am I supposed to do?[/quote]Nothing and everything. Let’s see what happens.
CormsQuote Reply
[quote name=Corms]He’s made two great stops tonight, unfortunately he threw one of them away. Not as bad as Wells’ shot put into foul territory on Morgan’s bunt.[/quote]He launched that one throw. You knew the moment it left his hand there was no way Pena was catching that. The only question was whether or not it would stay in the field of play.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]What am I supposed to do?[/quote]I’d tell you, but I can’t.
mb21Quote Reply
Anybody watching The Killing?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]He launched that one throw. You knew the moment it left his hand there was no way Pena was catching that. The only question was whether or not it would stay in the field of play.[/quote]Yeah, it kind of looked like Brett Favre throwing over the middle.
CormsQuote Reply
Thank goodness for Yuni (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Anybody watching The Killing?[/quote]It’s only 2-0 I wouldn’t call it a killing yet. Oh wait…
CormsQuote Reply
If Castro hadn’t stopped that ball up the middle and gotten the first out it could have easily turned into a 4 or 5 run inning.
melissaQuote Reply
Brenly making light of his own stupidity again.
CormsQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ve always wished my dog was more friendly with people than she is. She’s very loving with people she knows. There’s even this one plumber that has come over many times over the last 9 years that she’s become very friendly with. It’s like the plumber is part of the extended family. If I’m walking her I won’t let people come up to her because she’ll go crazy. She’s never bitten anybody before, but I’m very cautious. If children come to her, I have to get down on my knees next to her or she’ll angrily bark at them. If I get down on my knees she’s always very good and will let the kids pet her. Weird.[/quote]
Some dogs are just weird on the leash. Our youngest dog is incredibly social and friendly with people and dogs both, but when she’s on a leash she thinks she’s a badass dog ten times her size and growls and barks at other dogs.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Some dogs are just weird on the leash. Our youngest dog is incredibly social and friendly with people and dogs both, but when she’s on a leash she thinks she’s a badass dog ten times her size and growls and barks at other dogs.[/quote]
This seems to be a theme with small mammals of all species. Including those midgets outside bars who want to fight you.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]This seems to be a theme with small mammals of all species. Including those scrappy white ballplayers that the average fan loves..[/quote]
Nice Snark’d
CormsQuote Reply
@Tim:
I do more lurking than commenting ’round these parts, but I wanted to speak up regarding your touching words about Schultz. I’ve had to say goodbye to a beloved pet and the pain never fully goes away. Just know that when he does go, you’ll have friends here to empathize.
EddieQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Some dogs are just weird on the leash. Our youngest dog is incredibly social and friendly with people and dogs both, but when she’s on a leash she thinks she’s a badass dog ten times her size and growls and barks at other dogs.[/quote]About two days after I got my dog, she was just 7 weeks old and weighed less than 7 pounds. We were out walking and there was this guy who had a doberman and my dog charged after that doberman like she was a 300 pound beast. Fortunately she was on a leash and the doberman was inside a fence, but I often think about that. She had no clue what she was doing, but she had no fear whatsoever.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]This seems to be a theme with small mammals of all species. Including those midgets outside bars who want to fight you.[/quote]Those midgets are human beings. Be nice. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Eddie]@Tim:
I do more lurking than commenting ’round these parts, but I wanted to speak up regarding your touching words about Schultz. I’ve had to say goodbye to a beloved pet and the pain never fully goes away. Just know that when he does go, you’ll have friends here to empathize.[/quote]You should do more commenting. We’re friendly people. I swear.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Those midgets are human beings. Be nice. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Sorry. I have not yet eaten dinner tonight and no longer plan to.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Anybody watching The Killing?[/quote]
yep
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Eddie]@Tim:
I do more lurking than commenting ’round these parts, but I wanted to speak up regarding your touching words about Schultz. I’ve had to say goodbye to a beloved pet and the pain never fully goes away. Just know that when he does go, you’ll have friends here to empathize.[/quote]
Thanks, Eddie. He’s curled up on my leg right now, occasionally shooting me an exasperated look for disturbing him while I try to type.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Lead-off walk to the pitcher, Let’s See What Happens.
melissaQuote Reply
Did Randy Wells just walk the pitcher? *facepalm*
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You should do more commenting. We’re friendly people. I swear.[/quote]
Don’t tell him what to do.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]About two days after I got my dog, she was just 7 weeks old and weighed less than 7 pounds. We were out walking and there was this guy who had a doberman and my dog charged after that doberman like she was a 300 pound beast. Fortunately she was on a leash and the doberman was inside a fence, but I often think about that. She had no clue what she was doing, but she had no fear whatsoever.[/quote]
(dying laughing). Our dogs are the same way. When Kira first met my inlaws overly-protective-of-his-momma male dog (who was half again as big as her) they threw down, and she never backed down from his growling even after he demonstrated his size advantage over her many times. My brother’s lab, who is much bigger than her, got snippy with her and she managed to drive her away despite the fact that she was already blind at that point (dying laughing). She doesn’t start shit with other dogs but she doesn’t back down from the other dogs.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]yep[/quote]+1 or -1?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Anybody watching The Killing?[/quote]
Stop wasting your time with that and get on with watching Game of Thrones, DeRosa dammit (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]+1 or -1?[/quote]
It’s not bad. I was ready to give up on it about two or three episodes ago.
GWQuote Reply
i like the two detectives. Are you watching it?
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]It’s not bad. I was ready to give up on it about two or three episodes ago.[/quote]
I haven’t seen it, but I’ve read lots of people who initially liked the show voice the same opinion as GW.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Gameday says six balls in play can be classified as line drives off Wells tonight.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing). Our dogs are the same way. When Kira first met my inlaws overly-protective-of-his-momma male dog (who was half again as big as her) they threw down, and she never backed down from his growling even after he demonstrated his size advantage over her many times. My brother’s lab, who is much bigger than her, got snippy with her and she managed to drive her away despite the fact that she was already blind at that point (dying laughing). She doesn’t start shit with other dogs but she doesn’t back down from the other dogs.[/quote]That’s awesome. The only time I saw my dog scared was this Christmas at my parents and my uncle and his wife have this HUGE fucking dog. I mean huge. It weighs over 200 pounds. It’s massive. It’s a horse. My dog saw the horse get out of their truck and she started barking so I picked her up. When that dog came up the steps and was about 40 or so feet from the front door, she lost control of her bladder and just started spraying urine everywhere. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=GW]i like the two detectives. Are you watching it?[/quote]Yeah, I’ve thought about giving it up too, but I do like the show. At times it seems intentionally and needlessly too slow, but it has its moments. I was glad it was picked up for season 2. I’d like to see where it goes.
Who do you think killed Rosie? I had thought Richmond all along, but now it’s too obvious with one episode left. I’m thinking it’s his assistant.
mb21Quote Reply
They might get a chance to use Chris Carpenter tonight. Wells is having issues.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Stop wasting your time with that and get on with watching Game of Thrones, DeRosa dammit (dying laughing)[/quote]I have them downloaded. I’m done with The Borgias now so will probably start watching it after The Killing ends next week.
mb21Quote Reply
The Cubs have made three errors in nine games this year. Four errors twice.
h/t Muskat
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I have them downloaded. I’m done with The Borgias now so will probably start watching it after The Killing ends next week.[/quote]
Good timing – it’s the last episode of the season for GoT this weekend
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]The Cubs have made three errors in nine games this year. Four errors twice.
h/t Muskat[/quote]It’s the worst defensive Cubs team I’ve ever watched. I’d bet anything they’d be the worst defense in AAA. They’re just horrible.
mb21Quote Reply
Ryan Theriot just made two more errors today. That makes me feel better (slightly).
ACTQuote Reply
Weird how Theriot became such a butterfingers this year. He was never particularly error-prone in the past.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Good timing – it’s the last episode of the season for GoT this weekend[/quote]I like to watch a few episodes at a time so I’m kind of glad. I’ll have to get it in before Breaking Bad starts.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Weird how Theriot became such a butterfingers this year. He was never particularly error-prone in the past.[/quote]He always made the plays you expect.
mb21Quote Reply
GOLAZO! Guadeloupe 0-1 USMNT
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Wells’ FIP before tonight was 5.74…I’m guessing those walks crank it up a bit.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Cubs have more errors than hits
mb21Quote Reply
Has there been any discussion around here about Carpenter getting called up and Colvin being sent back down? They added Carpenter to the 40 man even though he’s not been having a very good year, not sure why they think he’ll be better here. I also don’t know that Colvin will ever be anything but find it mildly irritating to see DeWitt, Baker and Johnson on the field tonight while Quade claims he can’t find at bats for Colv. I suppose I forgot that we’re trying to win games here.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, I’ve thought about giving it up too, but I do like the show. At times it seems intentionally and needlessly too slow, but it has its moments. I was glad it was picked up for season 2. I’d like to see where it goes.
Who do you think killed Rosie? I had thought Richmond all along, but now it’s too obvious with one episode left. I’m thinking it’s his assistant.[/quote]
I really didn’t like all of the focus on the family, at least I thought it was way too much. The red herrings also upset me; like you mentioned, all of the choices that they steer you towards as suspects are bound to be wrong, which is something you pick up on right away as a viewer.
I hadn’t thought about the assistant, pretty good choice. I’ll be upset if it is a fringe character like the billionaire.
GWQuote Reply
I’m fine with having Reed in CF…against a LHP.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Also, something that bugged me about the last episode:
Who the hell would sit on those photos of Richmond with Rosie? No one, right?
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I’m fine with having Reed in CF…against a LHP.[/quote]
I don’t have a problem with that either just wondering why Colvin is being sent back to AAA while players with no future in this franchise are playing.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I don’t have a problem with that either just wondering why Colvin is being sent back to AAA while players with no future in this franchise are playing.[/quote]
You’re forgetting about the 5 year deal Reed Johnson will sign in the offseason (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]I really didn’t like all of the focus on the family, at least I thought it was way too much. The red herrings also upset me; like you mentioned, all of the choices that they steer you towards as suspects are bound to be wrong, which is something you pick up on right away as a viewer.
I hadn’t thought about the assistant, pretty good choice. I’ll be upset if it is a fringe character like the billionaire.[/quote]Yeah, that would be pretty stupid. They were definitely steering us that way before the emails in that last episode. Now we can rule Richmond out. I always knew Mitch’s sister had to be of more importance to the story than just being there to care for the kids. Didn’t know what, but she was my 2nd choice.
mb21Quote Reply
I think MB has been hammering this point, but the only Cubs OF that could be both playing in MLB right now and is likely to be playing significant innings in MLB in the future is Brett Jackson, and I think he’ll be called up as soon as it looks like he’s back to 100%
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]Also, something that bugged me about the last episode:
Who the hell would sit on those photos of Richmond with Rosie? No one, right?[/quote]Yeah, that’s the problem with this type of series. If you try to keep the viewers guessing you have to ignore certain things that would never be ignored in real life.
I go back and forth on the show. There are certainly parts of it that I don’t like, but at the same time I really do like other aspects of it. The two cops are great in those roles. I’ve thought Richmond has been pretty good and I’ve never liked that actor.
Did you watch The Borgias?
mb21Quote Reply
The only reason I’m watching the Cubs is that I hope to see Carpenter make his debut. James Shields has been a real steal for my discredited fantasy team, CG shutout of Red Sox tonight. I guess the teams I’m rooting for this year are the Rays, the Braves, and the Indians. I actually hope the Brewers win the Central.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I don’t have a problem with that either just wondering why Colvin is being sent back to AAA while players with no future in this franchise are playing.[/quote]
Ive stopped hoping the Cubs would do anything near logical and just follow for the absurdity and the humor. The Cubs are the Camut of baseball (dying laughing)
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I think MB has been hammering this point, but the only Cubs OF that could be both playing in MLB right now and is likely to be playing significant innings in MLB in the future is Brett Jackson, and I think he’ll be called up as soon as it looks like he’s back to 100%[/quote]I thought that for awhile as you know, but Muskat implied he wouldn’t be called up until September. Things can change and he’s shown his typically good eye the last few games. I’m guessing he gets hot and forces their hand.
As long as the Cubs aren’t taking plate appearances away from him down the road, I really don’t care who they run out to the outfield. They can put Koyie Hill in LF, Bobby Scales in CF and Jeff Samardzija in RF for all I care. But when Jackson comes up, he goes to CF and he plays every day.
mb21Quote Reply
That oh, two and three line that the boys have put up so far tonite is awfully tasty.
I caught some of the CWS play-in games that Morgan Ensberg called a couple of weeks ago and he had this contrived scorecard of mistakes that he kept babbling about (walks given, errors, passed balls, etc.), insisting that the team with the lower number would win.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that if you have more errors than combined runs and hits, you’re likely to lose. Faily McFucking Failalot.
uncle daveQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I thought that for awhile as you know, but Muskat implied he wouldn’t be called up until September. Things can change and he’s shown his typically good eye the last few games. I’m guessing he gets hot and forces their hand.
As long as the Cubs aren’t taking plate appearances away from him down the road, I really don’t care who they run out to the outfield. They can put Koyie Hill in LF, Bobby Scales in CF and Jeff Samardzija in RF for all I care. But when Jackson comes up, he goes to CF and he plays every day.[/quote]
I want more Sean Marshall in LF
BerseliusQuote Reply
As for Colvin, I wanted the guy to play every day entering the season. I knew he wasn’t really a regular outfielder, but why not? At this point though, what’s the point? Among players with 100 or more plate appearances, he has the lowest wOBA in baseball. Casey Coleman and Randy Wells have higher wOBAs than Colvin. The lowest batting average is Colvin and it’s so far behind anybody else it’s not even funny. He has the lowest OBP by far and the 2nd lowest slugging.
There’s only so much a manager can do. The player has to earn more playing time and Colvin’s wOBA is about the average wOBA for a pitcher. Yeah, he should have been given more playing time early in the season, but he wasn’t. Nothing we can do about that, but right now he’s not deserving of a roster spot.
mb21Quote Reply
Hey felluz. Just getting on the ol’ computer now. What’s the general, unrediscredited reaction to the Carpenter call up?
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
[quote name=uncle dave]
I’ll go out on a limb and say that if you have more errors than combined runs and hits, you’re likely to lose. Faily McFucking Failalot.[/quote]
You’re really sticking your neck out on that one (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=uncle dave]That oh, two and three line that the boys have put up so far tonite is awfully tasty.
I caught some of the CWS play-in games that Morgan Ensberg called a couple of weeks ago and he had this contrived scorecard of mistakes that he kept babbling about (walks given, errors, passed balls, etc.), insisting that the team with the lower number would win.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that if you have more errors than combined runs and hits, you’re likely to lose. Faily McFucking Failalot.[/quote]College announcers are seriously bad at their jobs.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Brad at Cubs Stats]Hey felluz. Just getting on the ol’ computer now. What’s the general, unrediscredited reaction to the Carpenter call up?[/quote]I don’t have an opinion. I don’t get too excited about relievers, but I am surprised they chose him and not Rafael Dolis who, you know, is actually having a pretty good season unlike Carpenter (who got demoted).
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Brad at Cubs Stats]Hey felluz. Just getting on the ol’ computer now. What’s the general, unrediscredited reaction to the Carpenter call up?[/quote]
*shrug* why not. I’m not wild about the offseason decision to move him to the pen but if it was his injury history that did it, what else can they do.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t have an opinion. I don’t get too excited about relievers, but I am surprised they chose him and not Rafael Dolis who, you know, is actually having a pretty good season unlike Carpenter (who got demoted).[/quote]Yeah, it’s kind of like rearranging the bullpen on the Titanic: It doesn’t change the fact we’re all going to die.
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]As for Colvin, I wanted the guy to play every day entering the season. I knew he wasn’t really a regular outfielder, but why not? At this point though, what’s the point? Among players with 100 or more plate appearances, he has the lowest wOBA in baseball. Casey Coleman and Randy Wells have higher wOBAs than Colvin. The lowest batting average is Colvin and it’s so far behind anybody else it’s not even funny. He has the lowest OBP by far and the 2nd lowest slugging.
There’s only so much a manager can do. The player has to earn more playing time and Colvin’s wOBA is about the average wOBA for a pitcher. Yeah, he should have been given more playing time early in the season, but he wasn’t. Nothing we can do about that, but right now he’s not deserving of a roster spot.[/quote]
He had some good at bats in the last series and seemed to be showing some signs of life at the plate. He’s a first round draft pick and this is a season that is going nowhere, he should play. Even when he was going really well last year I was still of the opinion that he was only a 4th or 5th outfielder, it’s not like I think he’s going to be great. I just think the way the Cubs have handled him this season has set him up for failure. They did the same thing with Pie and I don’t think it’s the way you develop players.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]College announcers are seriously bad at their jobs.[/quote]I believe it was the sixth-string ESPNU team, which pretty much ranks between a pair of high school kids calling a game on a small-town AM station and Al Yellon in terms of their ability to say something interesting about baseball.
uncle daveQuote Reply
Beer Status: Ommegang Three Philosophers. Holy shit, this is strong beer.
BerseliusQuote Reply
I don’t disagree that the Cubs didn’t do Colvin any favors early in the season, but I don’t think he’s earned any at this point. He’s been horrible this season. Worst hitter in baseball. I didn’t like the way they handled him early, but I don’t have a problem with the way they’re handling him now.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t have an opinion. I don’t get too excited about relievers, but I am surprised they chose him and not Rafael Dolis who, you know, is actually having a pretty good season unlike Carpenter (who got demoted).[/quote]
Because of the struggles you mention it seems surprising to me that they would add him to the 40 man and start burning his options. Was he drafted in 08?
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t have an opinion. I don’t get too excited about relievers, but I am surprised they chose him and not Rafael Dolis who, you know, is actually having a pretty good season unlike Carpenter (who got demoted).[/quote]
Lets see what happens
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=Brad at Cubs Stats]Yeah, it’s kind of like rearranging the bullpen on the Titanic: It doesn’t change the fact we’re all going to die.[/quote]
The Titanic had a terrible bullpen, but they sure could play “Nearer, My God, to Thee.”
Aisle424Quote Reply
I agree about Wrigley. I think it’s time for a new stadium.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Because of the struggles you mention it seems surprising to me that they would add him to the 40 man and start burning his options. Was he drafted in 08?[/quote]Yeah, 3rd round if I recall correctly.
mb21Quote Reply
I wonder if Yuni really was someone the Brewers wanted or if KC just really really wanted to get rid of him.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I wonder if Yuni really was someone the Brewers wanted or if KC just really really wanted to get rid of him.[/quote]Correct.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I wonder if Yuni really was someone the Brewers wanted or if KC just really really wanted to get rid of him.[/quote]
There’s little doubt here that it was mostly the latter. It’s possible they thought he was better than Counsell, but that’s not saying much.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Because the Rickett’s plan to revamp the stadium and dig under the field to increase the players’ facilities is already ballparked at costing $500 million. Would there be anyone shocked if the price tag eventually crept up into the $750 million or even $1 BILLION range? We’re talking about wholesale replacement of foundational supports and girders that are essentially orginal parts of the ballpark. That ain’t going to be cheap. It would almost necessitate shutting down at least parts of the stadium to accomplish, and that is going to cost the team revenue that it can’t spare because it is already in violation of MLB’s debt ratio policies. Where is this money going to come from? The bankrupt state of Illinois?
how much do you think a new park will cost? probably the same.
I disagree with the entire thing. Take in some investors and renovate Wrigley over the next 10 years like they did at Fenway and everything will be cool.
No way a new stadium will be built so don’t waste your time.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Because of the struggles you mention it seems surprising to me that they would add him to the 40 man and start burning his options. Was he drafted in 08?[/quote]That’s my only point of contention. If this guy really is one of our better pitcher, why waste an option year? On the bullpen? Of a losing, terrible, terrible team?
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Because of the struggles you mention it seems surprising to me that they would add him to the 40 man and start burning his options. Was he drafted in 08?[/quote]WAIT A SECOND?! “MELISSA”?!?!?!
Since when did you guys have ladayzz visiting the OV?
BradleyWoodrumQuote Reply
[quote name=Brad at Cubs Stats]That’s my only point of contention. If this guy really is one of our better pitcher, why waste an option year? On the bullpen? Of a losing, terrible, terrible team?[/quote]
Unfortunately, I think management’s answer to your questions would be: Let’s See What Happens.
melissaQuote Reply
Soto didn’t strike out!
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]
how much do you think a new park will cost? probably the same.
[/quote]Agreed – if they’re remotely close they will and probably should just stay where they are
Did they have to rebuild the entire grandstand at Fenway? Old Fenway and Wrigley are similar because they’re both old but I think they diverge a lot more past that than people think.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Brad at Cubs Stats]WAIT A SECOND?! “MELISSA”?!?!?!
Since when did you guys have ladayzz visiting the OV?[/quote]
I’m really a dude in drag but I’ve been around since the inception of OV and ACB before that.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Did they have to rebuild the entire grandstand at Fenway? Old Fenway and Wrigley are similar because they’re both old but I think they diverge a lot more past that than people think.[/quote]
I think they only needed around $200MM to renovate and they had a larger footprint to work with. Wrigley is a much trickier proposition because there isn’t room to spread out. They are definitely going to rehab Wrigley but they won’t do it the way they should. The Grandstand should be torn out from flag pole to flag pole and rebuilt from scratch.
melissaQuote Reply
Can one of you stat fags write a concise little thing about why Ryan Howard is not nearly as good as his Home runs and RBI’s would suggest..
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
All I have to say is that rebuild or tear down, either way if I lived in Wrigelyville I’d move as soon as they announced either one. I lived near The Cell during the All Star game. Total chaos.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]They are definitely going to rehab Wrigley but they won’t do it the way they should. The Grandstand should be torn out from flag pole to flag pole and rebuilt from scratch.[/quote]
I don’t think they have a choice. I remember Tim or someone posting pics of the crumbling main support beams and stuff for Wrigley. At some point the building has to become structurally unsound far above and beyond the falling concrete from a few years ago. What if part of the upper deck collapses?
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Did they have to rebuild the entire grandstand at Fenway? Old Fenway and Wrigley are similar because they’re both old but I think they diverge a lot more past that than people think.[/quote]
no, they spent $200M over 10 years to do all the concourse renovations and other things. The cubs could “fix” all the problems for substantially less than building a new park and when they got done… they would basically have a new park. remember, the lower grandstand is not 100 years old. that was rebuilt in the late 60s. they would just have to add on and widen the concourses.
also, I never understood the “smelling like urine” cliche. It doesn’t. so can we quit perpetuating that stupid myth?
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Can one of you stat fags write a concise little thing about why Ryan Howard is not nearly as good as his Home runs and RBI’s would suggest..[/quote]
Sucks vs lefties, crummy OBP, already in his 30s, RBI is dependent on the hitters in front of him, lousy glove at 1b
BerseliusQuote Reply
http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?playerid2=1679&playerid3=2154&playerid4=971&playerid5=
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Can one of you stat fags write a concise little thing about why Ryan Howard is not nearly as good as his Home runs and RBI’s would suggest..[/quote]His WPA/Li is a measly 0.66!
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I think they only needed around $200MM to renovate and they had a larger footprint to work with. Wrigley is a much trickier proposition because there isn’t room to spread out. They are definitely going to rehab Wrigley but they won’t do it the way they should. The Grandstand should be torn out from flag pole to flag pole and rebuilt from scratch.[/quote]
no, they didn’t have a larger footprint to work with. they’ve operated within the exact same footprint. the cubs have a much larger one, in fact, especially on the 3rd base side. maybe people should research the fenway renovations before they say things like this.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
Whatever you want. It’s your world. We’re just living in it.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I think they only needed around $200MM to renovate and they had a larger footprint to work with. Wrigley is a much trickier proposition because there isn’t room to spread out. They are definitely going to rehab Wrigley but they won’t do it the way they should. The Grandstand should be torn out from flag pole to flag pole and rebuilt from scratch.[/quote]
I was never at Fenway before most of the renovations were done, but I don’t believe they extended the footprint at all. It is still really tight in there. The only place where there is any room is behind the right field bleachers and I don’t know if it was always like that or not.
The problem with doing as they did with Fenway is that A) they don’t have the money from the television broadcasts and advertising signage that Boston did, B) they didn’t have the debt the Cubs are carrying and will carry until it is way too late to save the ballpark piecemeal, and C) they didn’t have the fucking landmark commission blocking every god damn thing they wanted to do at every turn.
As hard as it was for Boston to pull off, it is at least twice as hard for the Cubs.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Josh]http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?playerid2=1679&playerid3=2154&playerid4=971&playerid5=[/quote]
Man, it’s hard to believe Rollins has been in MLB for 12 years.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Chris Carpenter making his cubs debut..greeted by a rickey weeks RBI double.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Whatever you want. It’s your world. We’re just living in it.[/quote]
good to know
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]no, they didn’t have a larger footprint to work with. they’ve operated within the exact same footprint. the cubs have a much larger one, in fact, especially on the 3rd base side. maybe people should research the fenway renovations before they say things like this.[/quote]Uh, do you have any idea where Fenway gets the money that made the investment worth it? It sure as fuck ain’t the ballpark. It’s what the Cubs want to do outside the ballpark, but can’t. Not enough space. So you do your research before you start telling everyone they’re wrong. When they aren’t. Or just respond with some decency if you want to be taken seriously because you’ve made it clear you’re not willing to have a discussion.
I’ll take Tim’s word for this. He’s been to a million more games at Wrigley than you.
mb21Quote Reply
First career strikeout.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]
also, I never understood the “smelling like urine” cliche. It doesn’t. so can we quit perpetuating that stupid myth?[/quote]
It does in many places down underneath the grandstand, and I occasionally get a whiff in my seat when the wind is blowing right (or wrong). Does is smell like you are inside a toilet? No, but it does smell more than other stadiums I’ve been to.
Aisle424Quote Reply
How does he look out there? Does he pass the eye test?
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It does in many places down underneath the grandstand, and I occasionally get a whiff in my seat when the wind is blowing right (or wrong). Does is smell like you are inside a toilet? No, but it does smell more than other stadiums I’ve been to.[/quote]
I’ve never smelled urine outside of the bathrooms, but I do think that Wrigley is kind of grungy.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, that’s the problem with this type of series. If you try to keep the viewers guessing you have to ignore certain things that would never be ignored in real life.
I go back and forth on the show. There are certainly parts of it that I don’t like, but at the same time I really do like other aspects of it. The two cops are great in those roles. I’ve thought Richmond has been pretty good and I’ve never liked that actor.
Did you watch The Borgias?[/quote]
I definitely like the way it’s shot. I can’t put my finger on it, but aesthetically it seems like it should be better than it is. Regardless, I’ll definitely watch the next season.
Is the Borgias on showtime? I dropped my subscription at the end of the last dexter season.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It does in many places down underneath the grandstand, and I occasionally get a whiff in my seat when the wind is blowing right (or wrong). Does is smell like you are inside a toilet? No, but it does smell more than other stadiums I’ve been to.[/quote]Yeah, I haven’t been to Wrigley near as frequently as you, but the idea that it’s a myth is absurd. Then again, Kinnick Stadium smells of urine. Any sporting facility as old as those places is going to smell like shit. I don’t mind Kinnick because they play 6, 7 games a year there. The Cubs play 81 at Wrigley.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=GW]I definitely like the way it’s shot. I can’t put my finger on it, but aesthetically it seems like it should be better than it is. Regardless, I’ll definitely watch the next season.
Is the Borgias on showtime? I dropped my subscription at the end of the last dexter season.[/quote]Yeah, it’s one of the two new Showtime shows they’ve had so far this season. Shameless is the other. Both shows were really good. Shameless became one of my favorites (up there with Breaking Bad and Dexter). The Borgias wasn’t that good, but I really liked it. The first season was only 9 episodes, which was a little disappointing, but it’s coming back for season 2.
mb21Quote Reply
I have no idea if smells like I’m in a toilet. Mind if I ask why you were inside one? (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
What is it now? April 75th?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I definitely agree with that. I love how dark and depressing the scenes are, but the show doesn’t quite match. I just think it’s impossible for a show like that to not have serious flaws. When you try to implicate every single star in the murder before you come back and do it again, things aren’t difficult to believe.
I still like it though. I look forward to it each week. As long as they don’t pull some stupid shit next week I’ll look forward to season 2.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Uh, do you have any idea where Fenway gets the money that made the investment worth it? It sure as fuck ain’t the ballpark. It’s what the Cubs want to do outside the ballpark, but can’t. Not enough space. So you do your research before you start telling everyone they’re wrong. When they aren’t. Or just respond with some decency if you want to be taken seriously because you’ve made it clear you’re not willing to have a discussion.
I’ll take Tim’s word for this. He’s been to a million more games at Wrigley than you.[/quote]
I sure as fuck do my research, yes indeed. Your mind is already made up. Many people say it can be done. I don’t believe I’m being “indecent” either.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
Aramis!
ACTQuote Reply
(dying laughing) Ramirez owns the Brewers
mb21Quote Reply
That was exciting.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I like going to Wrigley, in general. It’s a fun park. I always have a good time. I’d go this year if I had the money. The only other park I can really compare it to is Busch, old and new, and The Cell. I don’t know. Wrigley reminds me of my childhood I guess. The others are just places where I’m watching the game. The main difference was after the game I didn’t feel quite so much like cattle in a chute at Soxpark or Busch (though I did get screamed at by some rednecks at Busch — a game where Holiday hit a walkoff homer for the win. I guess it made them mad)
joshQuote Reply
the roar could be heard over a mile away
uptownbQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It does in many places down underneath the grandstand, and I occasionally get a whiff in my seat when the wind is blowing right (or wrong). Does is smell like you are inside a toilet? No, but it does smell more than other stadiums I’ve been to.[/quote]
smells like hot dogs and beer to me, ,just like any other stadium (dying laughing)
I’ve been to Wrigley probably 30-40 times.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
I just feel like maybe, MAYBE a new park would just feel like a fresh start for the franchise.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I don’t believe I’m being “indecent” either.[/quote]I’m sorry I overreacted.
mb21Quote Reply
(dying laughing)ocaust
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
RODRIGO!
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’m sorry I overreacted.[/quote]
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]RODRIGO![/quote]
That was so five minutes ago… (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I think this point of Tim’s is a much more important point than any fan-experience related stuff, FWIW.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]That was so five minutes ago… (dying laughing)[/quote]
Yeah, but I just wandered back to my computer and noticed it now (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]I like going to Wrigley, in general. It’s a fun park. I always have a good time. I’d go this year if I had the money. The only other park I can really compare it to is Busch, old and new, and The Cell. I don’t know. Wrigley reminds me of my childhood I guess. The others are just places where I’m watching the game. The main difference was after the game I didn’t feel quite so much like cattle in a chute at Soxpark or Busch (though I did get screamed at by some rednecks at Busch — a game where Holiday hit a walkoff homer for the win. I guess it made them mad)[/quote]I haven’t been to Wrigley in several years and I haven’t missed it. When I was younger I loved Wrigley. I loved what it meant, but now I just want to be comfortable. I want to be able to sit in my seat, see the field and so on. I don’t care about the old timey stuff or any of that any more. I like being able to look up at a jumbotron on occasion. I love the replays and the details.
I don’t mind the noise. I expect a ballpark to be loud. I’m much more annoyed with the obnoxious assholes you find at a game than I am the noise from the scoreboard.
Mostly though, the ballparks look nearly identical when you’re in your seat and looking onto the field. The beautiful green grass with the perfect white chalk prior to a game looks awesome no matter where you’re at. The ballplayers appear seem so much smaller than they appear on TV no matter where you’re at.
mb21Quote Reply
I think the cubs have been handicapped more by their outdated philosophy on the field more than their revenue stream. I know a big renovation is badly needed but I just don’t think it’s realistic to try and build a new stadium elsewhere in chicago which will cost double than full renovation of the grandstand.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]I just feel like maybe, MAYBE a new park would just feel like a fresh start for the franchise.[/quote]It couldn’t hurt. Wrigley is forever going to be associated with losing. I don’t think that really matters in terms of how the team performs, but it has to create a somewhat negative environment.
mb21Quote Reply
Maybe not cost effective, but also maybe necessary. I’m not married to the old-timey feel so much that I wouldn’t like to see the Cubs in a new venue. I think it would give the team a new feel. When a brand has had this long of a bad run (in terms of championships) a rebranding may be in order.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]no, they didn’t have a larger footprint to work with. they’ve operated within the exact same footprint. the cubs have a much larger one, in fact, especially on the 3rd base side. maybe people should research the fenway renovations before they say things like this.[/quote]
So sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities. I was of the impression that the Yawkey Way set-up they have is not something that the Cubs have room for. I wasn’t just talking about the inside seating area. I suppose I should be more specific so I don’t upset the likes of you but I’ll probably say whatever the fuck I like.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I think the cubs have been handicapped more by their outdated philosophy on the field more than their revenue stream. I know a big renovation is badly needed but I just don’t think it’s realistic to try and build a new stadium elsewhere in chicago which will cost double than full renovation of the grandstand.[/quote]It’s definitely not worth the cost right now, but neither is the cost of the renovation for that matter. I also agree the team has been losing because they’re been run by idiots. At the very least that is the biggest problem the team has faced, but the lack of revenue the Cubs have been able to generate has to be factored in. The Cubs are a huge market team with tons of fans willing to spend tons of money, but Wrigley doesn’t produce the revenue that a modern ballpark would.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It couldn’t hurt. Wrigley is forever going to be associated with losing. I don’t think that really matters in terms of how the team performs, but it has to create a somewhat negative environment.[/quote]When you get down to it, it’s really a medium to transmit beer and nachos, so you might as well not get a crick in your neck (I totally got a crick in my neck at the Cell, fwiw.)
joshQuote Reply
I know a lot of people want to feel “comfortable” when they go to the ballpark but I don’t understand that part. I feel more than comfortable when I go to Wrigley. I don’t get why people say it’s a dump when I think it’s the perfect place to experience a baseball game. that has nothing to do with the problem with revenue streams, but I believe it can be corrected by rebuilding, renovating the grandstand. and like I said, where is the money going to come? It’s a problem either way.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]So sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities. I was of the impression that the Yawkey Way set-up they have is not something that the Cubs have room for. I wasn’t just talking about the inside seating area. I suppose I should be more specific so I don’t upset the likes of you but I’ll probably say whatever the fuck I like.[/quote]Yawkey Way is the difference between Fenway and Wrigley. The Cubs down have the ability to create something like that no matter how much they wish it to be true. Without it, the Cubs just can’t generate the revenue that the Red Sox can. If the Cubs could build something like that it would absolutely be worth staying at Wrigley. I haven’t seen anyone explain how it’s possible.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I know a lot of people want to feel “comfortable” when they go to the ballpark but I don’t understand that part. I feel more than comfortable when I go to Wrigley. I don’t get why people say it’s a dump when I think it’s the perfect place to experience a baseball game. that has nothing to do with the problem with revenue streams, but I believe it can be corrected by rebuilding, renovating the grandstand. and like I said, where is the money going to come? It’s a problem either way.[/quote]
I like watching the games at Wrigley. I just don’t like having to walk through the dungeon to get to my seat (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]When you get down to it, it’s really a medium to transmit beer and nachos, so you might as well not get a crick in your neck (I totally got a crick in my neck at the Cell, fwiw.)[/quote]There are certain seats at Kaufmann that are just like that despite the renovation. It’s annoying, but it’s a hell of a lot nicer than Wrigley in my opinion.
I know most people disagree with that, but I really don’t care about the old timey feel or the historical significance of a ballpark that hasn’t seen a single team win a World Series.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]So sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities. I was of the impression that the Yawkey Way set-up they have is not something that the Cubs have room for. I wasn’t just talking about the inside seating area. I suppose I should be more specific so I don’t upset the likes of you but I’ll probably say whatever the fuck I like.[/quote]
I think the area of the triangle building is the same as Yawkee Way. same thing. and I didn’t know I was quoting you and had no idea I was being nasty in any way. where did that come from?
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I think the cubs have been handicapped more by their outdated philosophy on the field more than their revenue stream. I know a big renovation is badly needed but I just don’t think it’s realistic to try and build a new stadium elsewhere in chicago which will cost double than full renovation of the grandstand.[/quote]
Last I saw the new stadiums in Florida and the one planned for Oakland are coming in around the $400 – $500 million range.
The Renovation to build the Triangle Building and dig under the field for the better player facilities alone is going to cost $400 million. We haven’t even started talking about the main support beams that have never been replaced. I keep trying to find the article in the Trib from the early 90s that had the results of a structural analysis they did back then. I can’t remember if the supports were good for another estimated 50 or 75 years back then. If it was 50, we have less than 30 years left before the place comes a hazard.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I know a lot of people want to feel “comfortable” when they go to the ballpark but I don’t understand that part. I feel more than comfortable when I go to Wrigley. I don’t get why people say it’s a dump when I think it’s the perfect place to experience a baseball game. that has nothing to do with the problem with revenue streams, but I believe it can be corrected by rebuilding, renovating the grandstand. and like I said, where is the money going to come? It’s a problem either way.[/quote]I don’t think it’s a dump, myself, but I don’t have to use the locker room. I like the location. I like that you can take a train almost straight to the stadium and that there are some decent motels in walking distance. I just think it’s time to move on. Yes there has been bad management, but it’s a cloud of losing hangs over the place.
joshQuote Reply
Sorry to interrupt, but I’d just like to say that I’m impressed that Q brought in Marmol in a tie game.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’ve been to Fenway too, and spent a lot of time looking at the “save fenway park” project, and the area between Clark and Wrigley is probably the exact same footage. I didn’t mean to get flippant. sorry.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
Plus, we still don’t even know if their plan to dig under the field is even possible. Last I had heard, the Cubs hadn’t done the research to find out because the state didn’t pony up the dough.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I think the area of the triangle building is the same as Yawkee Way. same thing. and I didn’t know I was quoting you and had no idea I was being nasty in any way. where did that come from?[/quote]
Yawkey Way seems to me that it would be similar to Wrigley if the Cubs were allowed to shut down Clark street from Addison to Waveland.
This was in response to what I said and maybe you always tell people to do “research” before they make comments:
[quote name=Horny Goat]no, they didn’t have a larger footprint to work with. they’ve operated within the exact same footprint. the cubs have a much larger one, in fact, especially on the 3rd base side. maybe people should research the fenway renovations before they say things like this.[/quote]
.
melissaQuote Reply
The money has to come from the state of course.
As for comfort, people go to games for different reasons. When I was younger I loved to go and have some drinks, eat some hot dogs and the typical shit people do. I don’t drink. I don’t eat hot dogs. I don’t eat nachos. in fact, there’s not a single thing that Wrigley offers that I eat.
I’m far from the only one. Many people who accompany the person interested in the game are the same way.
I don’t necessarily care what one person thinks about Wrigley. My opinion is that it’s a disaster. it’s impossible to get to. It’s far easier for me to go elsewhere. I’d much prefer go to a minor league game than go to Wrigley. That’s true for a number of reasons. Some of those is how shitty I think the ballpark is compared to pretty much every other ballpark (including most minor league ballparks).
I’m sorry if that offends someone. I’m sorry if someone thinks that makes me less of a Cubs fan. The bottom line is that I don’t care enough to attend a game at Wrigley when I can easily attend ballgames elsewhere and have a more enjoyable time doing so.
mb21 out, fuckfaces!
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Plus, we still don’t even know if their plan to dig under the field is even possible. Last I had heard, the Cubs hadn’t done the research to find out because the state didn’t pony up the dough.[/quote]State ain’t got no dough to pony.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]The money has to come from the state of course.
As for comfort, people go to games for different reasons. When I was younger I loved to go and have some drinks, eat some hot dogs and the typical shit people do. I don’t drink. I don’t eat hot dogs. I don’t eat nachos. in fact, there’s not a single thing that Wrigley offers that I eat.
I’m far from the only one. Many people who accompany the person interested in the game are the same way.
I don’t necessarily care what one person thinks about Wrigley. My opinion is that it’s a disaster. it’s impossible to get to. It’s far easier for me to go elsewhere. I’d much prefer go to a minor league game than go to Wrigley. That’s true for a number of reasons. Some of those is how shitty I think the ballpark is compared to pretty much every other ballpark (including most minor league ballparks).
I’m sorry if that offends someone. I’m sorry if someone thinks that makes me less of a Cubs fan. The bottom line is that I don’t care enough to attend a game at Wrigley when I can easily attend ballgames elsewhere and have a more enjoyable time doing so.
mb21 out, fuckfaces![/quote]The state is sooo broke. Something would have to change for that to happen.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]State ain’t got no dough to pony.[/quote]
Correct.
Aisle424Quote Reply
The Cubs asked the city for permission to have a street fair on Sheffield between Addison and Waveland and were denied. The city is not giving them access to the streets around the outside of the building even though Sheffield is already closed during games.
melissaQuote Reply
They should’ve gotten 2008 Kosuke to strike out a few times to drill down and check out the underground himself.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
One more thing: let’s get an HONEST opinion of what the players think about Wrigley. not just the Cubs players, but visiting players as well. They’re the ones who work there. If it turns out they truly do love the ballpark, then renovate it. If it turns out that they actually do hate it as people believe then build a new one. They’re the employees who are forced to work in those conditions. Our opinions don’t mean a thing.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Last I saw the new stadiums in Florida and the one planned for Oakland are coming in around the $400 – $500 million range.
The Renovation to build the Triangle Building and dig under the field for the better player facilities alone is going to cost $400 million. We haven’t even started talking about the main support beams that have never been replaced. I keep trying to find the article in the Trib from the early 90s that had the results of a structural analysis they did back then. I can’t remember if the supports were good for another estimated 50 or 75 years back then. If it was 50, we have less than 30 years left before the place comes a hazard.[/quote]
FLA got a good deal on that land and it was a big swindle. those taxpayers are going to be on the hook for decades. Oakland hasn’t even done a deal yet. Imagine what it would be in Chicago. Why spend on real estate when you have it paid for already?
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]One more thing: let’s get an HONEST opinion of what the players think about Wrigley. not just the Cubs players, but visiting players as well. They’re the ones who work there. If it turns out they truly do love the ballpark, then renovate it. If it turns out that they actually do hate it as people believe then build a new one. They’re the employees who are forced to work in those conditions. Our opinions don’t mean a thing.[/quote]From what I’ve read, they hate it. Hell, even some of the Cubs hate it. The old-timers talk about how it’s slightly better than it used to be.
joshQuote Reply
Melissa, they wouldn’t have to close Waveland. It’s all between Clark and Wrigley itself. South of Waveland. it’s a huge area
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]One more thing: let’s get an HONEST opinion of what the players think about Wrigley. not just the Cubs players, but visiting players as well. They’re the ones who work there. If it turns out they truly do love the ballpark, then renovate it. If it turns out that they actually do hate it as people believe then build a new one. They’re the employees who are forced to work in those conditions. Our opinions don’t mean a thing.[/quote]
but if they rebuild on site they would have new facilities. Even if they just “renovate” extensively, they could expand those facilities..clubhouses, etc…
Horny GoatQuote Reply
I don’t understand how they can expand the facilities without completely gutting the place.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]Melissa, they wouldn’t have to close Waveland. It’s all between Clark and Wrigley itself. South of Waveland. it’s a huge area[/quote]
If they can get the Triangle building built, it would be a big source of revenue for them, but they don’t even have the money to do that. The clock is ticking. With every passing year, it is going to get more difficult to renovate section by section. I don’t know how they tear it all down and play at another facility because that will kill an entire year of revenues and they don’t have that kind of flexibility. The whole thing is fucked up and it is going to take a miracle to save it.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
I’m sorry if that offends someone. I’m sorry if someone thinks that makes me less of a Cubs fan. The bottom line is that I don’t care enough to attend a game at Wrigley when I can easily attend ballgames elsewhere and have a more enjoyable time doing so.
mb21 out, fuckfaces![/quote]
It doesn’t offend me, we just have different comfort levels I guess. (dying laughing)
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]If they can get the Triangle building built, it would be a big source of revenue for them, but they don’t even have the money to do that. The clock is ticking. With every passing year, it is going to get more difficult to renovate section by section. I don’t know how they tear it all down and play at another facility because that will kill an entire year of revenues and they don’t have that kind of flexibility. The whole thing is fucked up and it is going to take a miracle to save it.[/quote]Hey! Maybe they could just keep the status quo and float along until the building collapses and they get sued! Wait, that was the Trib’s plan.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]Melissa, they wouldn’t have to close Waveland. It’s all between Clark and Wrigley itself. South of Waveland. it’s a huge area[/quote]
Isn’t that where the org parking lot is right now?
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]One more thing: let’s get an HONEST opinion of what the players think about Wrigley. not just the Cubs players, but visiting players as well. They’re the ones who work there. If it turns out they truly do love the ballpark, then renovate it. If it turns out that they actually do hate it as people believe then build a new one. They’re the employees who are forced to work in those conditions. Our opinions don’t mean a thing.[/quote]There are several players and managers on record abut the deplorable conditions down there. Lou mentioned it. Edmonds bitched about it when he was a Cardinal, and Guillen complains about it every time the Sox play there. Several Cubs players (Ward, DeRosa, Reed, to name a few) have complained abut the hitting cage being under the bleachers, so that they have no in-game access for the pinch-hitters. In fact, I’ve never heard a single player be complimentary of the facilities there. I think it’s widely regarded as among the worst, if not the worst visiting locker room in MLB, and the home facilities really aren’t much better, so the meatballish “homefield advantage” argument really holds no water, either.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Isn’t that where the org parking lot is right now?[/quote]Yes, and it’s also where the network broadcast setups are.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]Melissa, they wouldn’t have to close Waveland. It’s all between Clark and Wrigley itself. South of Waveland. it’s a huge area[/quote]
I’m aware of the layout. They also have an empty lot across the street that they are going to use for their street fair this weekend. If they were allowed to close Clark from Addison to Waveland it would create a sizable area and it might even allow them to build a parking structure on the vacant lot west of Wrigley. You may not think they need more street space but they’ve been petitioning the City to use it on Sheffield.
melissaQuote Reply
From the horse’s mouth:
http://www.wrigleyfieldnews.com/articles/?p=117
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Not-so-average speed on display.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I just got back from a run to the grocery store and caught the Astros postgame. They lost 1-0 to the Pirates and named the Pirates closer as the player of the game and did a long interview with him. I turned it on in the middle of it and thought, WTF, is this a Pirates broadcast? (dying laughing). I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen on a team postgame show before.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Oh hell yeah. Sweep! SWEEP!
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I just got back from a run to the grocery store and caught the Astros postgame. They lost 1-0 to the Pirates and named the Pirates closer as the player of the game and did a long interview with him. I turned it on in the middle of it and thought, WTF, is this a Pirates broadcast? (dying laughing). I don’t think I’ve ever seen that happen on a team postgame show before.[/quote]
not a fan of the tv guys so much, but I like the astros radio guys. milo hamilton is just ok, but he only works part time, it seems, and the other two guys are very listenable.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]Oh hell yeah. Sweep! SWEEP![/quote]
Time to bring back the unicorn (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
Comeback underway!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Pirates:Cubs::Cubs:Brewers
uncle daveQuote Reply
No doubt the clubhouses are cramped and outdated. I’ve never questioned that. They need to rebuild the grandstand. The question is rebuild on site or elsewhere. which one is more cost effective. One idea was to scrap the triangle building altogether and rebuild the park in phases. You could expand the 3rd base side twice as big and still have room on the Clark street side for pedestrians, with room for new clubhouses, etc. then the next phase do a smaller one on the 1st base side. it would be smaller but still workable. not nearly as much room outside the park on that side but at least the visitor clubhouse, concourse, would be much bigger/wider.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]not a fan of the tv guys so much, but I like the astros radio guys. milo hamilton is just ok, but he only works part time, it seems, and the other two guys are very listenable.[/quote]
Milo Hamilton (dying laughing)
He was so bitter when he got shoved out of the Cubs gig
Horny GoatQuote Reply
You ever get the feeling that the Cubs are being held ransom by their fans, the city, and their neighborhood? Can’t advertise too much, can’t put in a big screen, can’t do anything without permission because of landmark status…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]You ever get the feeling that the Cubs are being held ransom by their fans, the city, and their neighborhood? Can’t advertise too much, can’t put in a big screen, can’t do anything without permission because of landmark status…[/quote]Also, didn’t they kind of get strong-armed into allowing the rooftop bleechers? It used to just be some people hanging out on their roofs barbecueing. They gave an inch and the owners in that area took a mile.
joshQuote Reply
I love Campana’s speed. If he could get on base like Kosuke, he’d be a good right fielder leadoff guy.
joshQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]You ever get the feeling that the Cubs are being held ransom by their fans, the city, and their neighborhood? Can’t advertise too much, can’t put in a big screen, can’t do anything without permission because of landmark status…[/quote]
No, I don’t feel that way because Ricketts knew the deal when he bought the club. As far as rooftops go, the Trib should have bought those buildings when they were dirt cheap.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]You ever get the feeling that the Cubs are being held ransom by their fans, the city, and their neighborhood? Can’t advertise too much, can’t put in a big screen, can’t do anything without permission because of landmark status…[/quote]It certainly starts to feel that way. The fans don’t want their precious toy changed in even the slightest way, the city just stands there staring blankly with their hand out, and the neighborhood are the most disingenuous fuckers of the bunch.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]I love Campana’s speed. If he could get on base like Kosuke, he’d be a good right fielder leadoff guy.[/quote]He’ll never hit for enough power to man a corner spot in the NL, even if he had good on-base skills.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Good at baseball again:
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]He’ll never hit for enough power to man a corner spot in the NL, even if he had good on-base skills.[/quote]
Yeah, I don’t think he’s even had a professional home run.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
39151 in the park tonight. Certainly looked that way on video.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]39151 in the park tonight. Certainly looked that way on video.[/quote]
Is that including the over-sized Encased Meat puppets? (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]39151 in the park tonight. Certainly looked that way on video.[/quote]I guess they just couldn’t stay away. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]No, I don’t feel that way because Ricketts knew the deal when he bought the club. As far as rooftops go, the Trib should have bought those buildings when they were dirt cheap.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone could have predicted how those rooftops became such money machines. Hell, the Trib probably could have bought the whole damn neighborhood back then but there was no reason to at that time. Wrigleyville was kind of a hole back then. By the time anyone realized the money that would be flowing in that area, the locals weren’t going to sell.
The funny thing is, the buildings with the signs are still better off than the rooftop clubs. That dude with the Budweiser building became very rich and never had all the overhead, logistics, and liability issues the rooftop owners deal with.
They’d all have signs now, but the local ordinance restricted them and grandfathered the old signs in.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I guess they just couldn’t stay away. (dying laughing)[/quote]
It was definitely the weather.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I don’t think anyone could have predicted how those rooftops became such money machines. Hell, the Trib probably could have bought the whole damn neighborhood back then but there was no reason to at that time. Wrigleyville was kind of a hole back then. By the time anyone realized the money that would be flowing in that area, the locals weren’t going to sell.
The funny thing is, the buildings with the signs are still better off than the rooftop clubs. That dude with the Budweiser building became very rich and never had all the overhead, logistics, and liability issues the rooftop owners deal with.
They’d all have signs now, but the local ordinance restricted them and grandfathered the old signs in.[/quote]
No, I don’t think anyone could have predicted the rooftops being money machines. I do think that an ownership group with vision would have considered buying those properties when they were dirt cheap to expand parking and other outside the park amenities when the revenue streams inside the park were limited. At least Ricketts was smart enough to snatch up one of the buildings when it became available last year.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I don’t think anyone could have predicted how those rooftops became such money machines. Hell, the Trib probably could have bought the whole damn neighborhood back then but there was no reason to at that time. Wrigleyville was kind of a hole back then. By the time anyone realized the money that would be flowing in that area, the locals weren’t going to sell.
The funny thing is, the buildings with the signs are still better off than the rooftop clubs. That dude with the Budweiser building became very rich and never had all the overhead, logistics, and liability issues the rooftop owners deal with.
They’d all have signs now, but the local ordinance restricted them and grandfathered the old signs in.[/quote]That the Cubs cannot grasp the simple fact that ads make just as much or more money for you than a bunch of happy drunks without any of the overhead involved with serving and corralling the happy drunks, while many others can is what really bothers me.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Josh]I love Campana’s speed. If he could get on base like Kosuke, he’d be a good right fielder leadoff guy.[/quote]And if he could get 1 foot taller, he could play basketball (both are about equally likely).
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]And if he could get 1 foot taller, he could play basketball (both are about equally likely).[/quote]
Muggsy Bogues he is not.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Are the same people living in Wrigleyville (the immediate vicinity) since 1914? I don’t believe so. In fact, their property values wouldn’t be what they are without Wrigley. I think there should be some give and take. They complain about the noise and the random pissing on their lawns but jesus, how about those property values?
I don’t think it would hurt them at all if they allowed the Cubs to play more Friday night games, which is a big sticking point.
And I agree, the Trib should’ve bought up those buildings across the street years ago. they should’ve done a LOT more things years ago.
As for parking, there are plenty of areas where the cubs could build multi-story parking garages near the park. It’s not that difficult. Attendance/parking is not a problem when the cubs are winning.
as I said, which is more cost effective. buying real estate and building anew or gutting the place & re-building on site?
Horny GoatQuote Reply
THIS
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]That the Cubs cannot grasp the simple fact that ads make just as much or more money for you than a bunch of happy drunks without any of the overhead involved with serving and corralling the happy drunks, while many others can is what really bothers me.[/quote]
I think the Ricketts would have more signage if the landmark status didn’t hamper them constantly.
I knew someone who used to know some of the people involved with pushing through the requests to get approval to make the existing signs on the electronic boards on the corners of the upper deck just a little bigger and he said it was a fucking Sisyphean ordeal.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I hate how Castro was credited with a single, when he could have made it to second had the tying run not scored.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]That the Cubs cannot grasp the simple fact that ads make just as much or more money for you than a bunch of happy drunks without any of the overhead involved with serving and corralling the happy drunks, while many others can is what really bothers me.[/quote]
were ads a huge revenue stream back in 1981 when the Trib bought them? Not nearly as much as they are now. Not with TV as it is today.
It matters now, of course, and I’d love to see a giant jumbotron in CF and the old scoreboard moved to a different spot where it might not block one of the rooftops. if it is, buy out one of the buildings. It would still make more money than now. Get creative.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I hate how Castro was credited with a single, when he could have made it to second had the tying run not scored.[/quote]
If they hadn’t played 2OF/5IF ball, it would’ve been a sac fly or maybe just a plain out. It might have dropped. Who knows. BABIP at work, and at the mercy of the official scorer.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]were ads a huge revenue stream back in 1981 when the Trib bought them? Not nearly as much as they are now. Not with TV as it is today.
It matters now, of course, and I’d love to see a giant jumbotron in CF and the old scoreboard moved to a different spot where it might not block one of the rooftops. if it is, buy out one of the buildings. It would still make more money than now. Get creative.[/quote]
They should have put a jumbotron where that awful Toyota sign is now, that is currently blocking the United ad on the rooftop. A Jumbotron at that spot probably wouldn’t block any lines of sight from those rooftops, especially since the only one directly blocked is just an ad. They could call it the Wrigley Replay Board Presented By Toyota.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I think the Ricketts would have more signage if the landmark status didn’t hamper them constantly.
I knew someone who used to know some of the people involved with pushing through the requests to get approval to make the existing signs on the electronic boards on the corners of the upper deck just a little bigger and he said it was a fucking Sisyphean ordeal.[/quote]Yeah, the Landmarks Commission are some royal crown assholes who are very used to being dealt with in a certain way, i.e. the Clay Davis Way.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
So, will Al Yellon say that the Cubs won with “good fundamental” baseball again?
ACTQuote Reply
I mean, they won, so they must have done something right. It’s the results that matter.
ACTQuote Reply
Rice CubeQuote Reply
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]So, will Al Yellon say that the Cubs won with “good fundamental” baseball again?[/quote]
Maybe after the 7th inning…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, the Landmarks Commission are some royal crown assholes who are very used to being dealt with in a certain way, i.e. the Clay Davis Way.[/quote]
It might take a few years for the Ricketts to get their appetite up for a big ol bowl of shit. (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]They should have put a jumbotron where that awful Toyota sign is now, that is currently blocking the United ad on the rooftop. A Jumbotron at that spot probably wouldn’t block any lines of sight from those rooftops, especially since the only one directly blocked is just an ad. They could call it the Wrigley Replay Board Presented By Toyota.[/quote]
A REAL jumbotron would block out 2-3 buildings though. That’s the problem. I’ve always thought it should be put in CF. Something has to be done about the landmark thing. There has to be some negotiation there when it comes time to decide on a new ballpark. If Ricketts really wants to stay there and we all know he does, he’ll have to convince those people. Let’s face it, a new stadium is going to cost much more than $500-$600M in Chicago. It would be almost a billion. I don’t think I’m exaggerating or saying that because of any bias. I do love Wrigley, but I’m just weighing all factors here.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
Did you guys see this? Someone created a 3D model of New Wrigley, or their vision of it anyway.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=4cdc4f0c65c26910f04ac2091dba6ac9
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It might take a few years for the Ricketts to get their appetite up for a big ol bowl of shit. (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing), I just think about that scene where Clay is on the cell playing both ends against the middle with Carcetti and Nareece.
But in all seriousness, Tommy Boy better hire himself a “consultant” or figure out really quick how to work with these people. The Tribune tried to bully the Daley administration (and then made the fatal mistake of fucking with the Soldier Field rebuild) and that’s a big reason there’s still nothing in the triangle area HG is talking about. Emanuel is probably even more inflexible. Ricketts better learn quick that these people cannot be pushed.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I started going to Wrigley in 1990 and always wondered why the fuck there was an acre of land between Clark St and Wrigley except for a dinky carwash and a donut/hot dog stand. what a waste of space.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I started going to Wrigley in 1990 and always wondered why the fuck there was an acre of land between Clark St and Wrigley except for a dinky carwash and a donut/hot dog stand. what a waste of space.[/quote]Well, Yum-Yum was there for a long time. I still remember stopping there before games with my dad and my sisters. When they closed, the Cubs tried several times to do things there, but there’s a lot of complications, both political and logistical. On top of the political problems with the Landmarks Commission and the Bernie Stone zoning cabal, that’s the FO and player’s parking lot, as well as the only place for the TV trailers to set shop.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder](dying laughing), I just think about that scene where Clay is on the cell playing both ends against the middle with Carcetti and Nareece.
[/quote]
Did you see Cedar Rapids? Seeing Clay Davis play a mild-mannered salesman making Wire references and doing an Omar impression was pretty hilarious (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Well, Yum-Yum was there for a long time. I still remember stopping there before games with my dad and my sisters. When they closed, the Cubs tried several times to do things there, but there’s a lot of complications, both political and logistical. On top of the political problems with the Landmarks Commission and the Bernie Stone zoning cabal, that’s the FO and player’s parking lot, as well as the only place for the TV trailers to set shop.[/quote]
I know that’s where the trucks set up, but do they have to? For every problem, there is a solution. They did the same thing at Fenway but a comprise was agreed to. They found another space. At Wrigley, they simply parked there because they could.
I ate at the yum yum for breakfast (and italian sausage) a few times.
the car wash is gone, I think, because of a wind storm several years ago. remember when a guy was seriously injured when the roof fell off the place? I think it was the roof.
I still like the plan of re-building the grandstand out into that area down the 3rd base line so the concourses and clubhouse areas would be much bigger. and there would still be room for player and personnel parking.
Horny GoatQuote Reply
[quote name=Horny Goat]I know that’s where the trucks set up, but do they have to? For every problem, there is a solution. They did the same thing at Fenway but a comprise was agreed to. They found another space. At Wrigley, they simply parked there because they could.
I ate at the yum yum for breakfast (and italian sausage) a few times.
the car wash is gone, I think, because of a wind storm several years ago. remember when a guy was seriously injured when the roof fell off the place? I think it was the roof.
I still like the plan of re-building the grandstand out into that area down the 3rd base line so the concourses and clubhouse areas would be much bigger. and there would still be room for player and personnel parking.[/quote]There’s nowhere else around Wrigley for them to set up. It’s been a persistent complication in the process. Sheffield and Waveland are parked with the charter buses, Addison is full of the CTA buses, the City has been firm that Clark cannot be blocked, and the part of Waveland by the firehouse has to be kept clear so the fire trucks can get in and out. Across Waveland, beside the firehouse is all parking, as is the McDonald’s lot. There’s literally no place for them to go but where they are.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Barney —–> DL
Guess he’ll be nice and rested now.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]There’s nowhere else around Wrigley for them to set up. It’s been a persistent complication in the process. Sheffield and Waveland are parked with the charter buses, Addison is full of the CTA buses, the City has been firm that Clark cannot be blocked, and the part of Waveland by the firehouse has to be kept clear so the fire trucks can get in and out. Across Waveland, beside the firehouse is all parking, as is the McDonald’s lot. There’s literally no place for them to go but where they are.[/quote]
Can they even go across the street? I’m pretty sure all those connections to the trucks are wired, though I guess they can do some digging.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Barney —–> DL
Guess he’ll be nice and rested now.[/quote]
Maybe the July contest should be a Starlin Castro DL pool, if he hasn’t hit it already.
BerseliusQuote Reply
I still think they can expand a bit and still have room for all that, but oh well. I’m done making my case (dying laughing)
I don’t take it as seriously as others do. If only this kind of passion (and anger!?) was put into more important things (I’m not talking about you, MO)
Horny GoatQuote Reply
New post http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/aramis-ramirez-is-due.html
BerseliusQuote Reply
I really loved? Lost and The walking dead and i cant wait untill Game of thrones
game of thrones season 3Quote Reply