Not that we didn’t already know this considering how long the two sides have been at it, but Gordon Edes says the two sides are stalemated though some progress has been made.
There appears to be resolution on at least one issue, according to a baseball source who has spoken with Red Sox officials. As things stand now, Epstein will be permitted to take one prominent member of the Red Sox organization with him to Chicago.
One surprising name that has surfaced, according to the source, is Jonathan Gilula, who would not come from the baseball side but is the executive vice president of business affairs. Gilula, who has been in MLB for 14 seasons and with the Red Sox for nine, played a major role in the renovations, remodeling and expansion of Fenway Park, and with the Cubs looking to do the same with Wrigley Field, Epstein might invite Gilula to join him in Chicago.
Trainer Mike Reinold, whose importance to the Red Sox goes beyond the major league clubhouse, may also be in play, the source said. The Boston Herald first raised the possibility that Reinold might join Epstein in Chicago.
Edes also says there may be truth to the Theo as president and someone else as the GM. We briefly discussed this in the last thread and whatever. I’ll just be happy to have Theo running the baseball operations and it doesn’t much matter in what capacity that is. However, do the Cubs really want to give up anything (I mean anything!) to get Theo for that role when they could hire him in one year? They could hire their new GM now. Surely Ricketts would already have a good idea who Theo has in mind so the Cubs could go after him as the GM and then sign Theo after his contract expires in Boston.
If the Cubs are hiring Theo as team president and also hiring a new GM, I’d prefer the Cubs wait a year to hire Theo and keep their prospects. Hoyer would require compensation so I’d stay away from that. Byrnes probably would not, or at least it would be far less than either Theo or Hoyer so that would be my choice.
Comments
cdwQuote Reply
BerseliusQuote Reply
BerseliusQuote Reply
I agree. Maybe they’re doing the compensation talks because the guys Theo wants to bring over are still under long-term contract though?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]
[/quote]My mind just went supernova.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
What the hell is Jesse wearing? I’ve never seen that suit in the show.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I agree. Maybe they’re doing the compensation talks because the guys Theo wants to bring over are still under long-term contract though?[/quote]I don’t know. All I know is the sun is the sun and a star is a star. I learned that today.
mb21Quote Reply
I always thought a tomato was a fruit rather than a vegetable because it contains seeds…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]What the hell is Jesse wearing? I’ve never seen that suit in the show.[/quote]I’m guessing the sort of thing they’d make a guy where to stand on the corner outside Los Pollos Hermanos and offer free popcorn chicken to passersby.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I always thought a tomato was a fruit rather than a vegetable because it contains seeds…[/quote]It is a fruit. It was declared a fruit by the supreme court, for the purposes of import taxation. There really is no other important reason to make such a distinction, is there?
binkyQuote Reply
A tomato is a fruit. So is a pepper. Anyone who is very good at cooking refers to both of these as fruit. You wouldn’t serve it them with watermelon and pineapple, but you know what I mean.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]I’m guessing the sort of thing they’d make a guy where to stand on the corner outside Los Pollos Hermanos and offer free popcorn chicken to passersby.[/quote]I’ll bet that’s what it is. Thanks.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ll bet that’s what it is. Thanks.[/quote]I seem to vaguely recall someone wearing one the first or second time Walter goes there, but it wasn’t Jessie, obviously. What’s going on in that picture, anyway? Is that the real actor pretending to be an extra from the show he is on, or just someone who strongly resembles him?
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]It is a fruit. It was declared a fruit by the supreme court, for the purposes of import taxation. There really is no other important reason to make such a distinction, is there?[/quote]I did not know this. I always just thought in terms of botany or whatever fruit scientists call what they study, in that the fruit is just an enlarged ovary protecting the seeds. But the Supreme Court thing is very cool.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I did not know this. I always just thought in terms of botany or whatever fruit scientists call what they study, in that the fruit is just an enlarged ovary protecting the seeds. But the Supreme Court thing is very cool.[/quote]You’re probably right, in that respect. I think some things were called “vegetables,” perhaps wrongly, by nutritionists when we were kids in order to help diversify people’s diets. Like it’s more important that you eat a variety of fruits, but if you said “Eat three servings of fruit” people would always opt for the sweeter fruits, so they put tomatoes on the other side.
Also, at this point, even if Tom wants to only make Theo president, he can’t really back down, right? This is probably the root of the stalemate. I’ll be happy when this is over and we can get onto watching what they can do with this whole organization.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]I seem to vaguely recall someone wearing one the first or second time Walter goes there, but it wasn’t Jessie, obviously. What’s going on in that picture, anyway? Is that the real actor pretending to be an extra from the show he is on, or just someone who strongly resembles him?[/quote]I don’t really know what’s going on. That’s definitely Jesse and Hector.
I remember Jesse’s friend wearing some costume, but I don’t remember one outside Los Pollos Hermanos.
mb21Quote Reply
I think tomatoes were considered vegetables because they weren’t as sweet as fruit. I remember as a kid thinking tomatoes were vegetables, but it’s been a long time since I started referring them as fruit.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t really know what’s going on. That’s definitely Jesse and Hector.
I remember Jesse’s friend wearing some costume, but I don’t remember one outside Los Pollos Hermanos.[/quote]He was working for like a bank or something. I think he was wearing a dollar bill.
I don’t think that’s the real Hector. In fact, that might be Bryan Cranston
binkyQuote Reply
While this may actually come to pass, I think it is what the cubs are using for leverage. Theo’s people leak this to the press as a way of saying, if worse comes to worst, i can always just wait…
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]While this may actually come to pass, I think it is what the cubs are using for leverage. Theo’s people leak this to the press as a way of saying, if worse comes to worst, i can always just wait…[/quote]That’s a possibility. Like the real plan is Byrnes as assistant GM, or they’re not even really looking at Byrnes, but it makes them look like they’re also seeking a GM.
binkyQuote Reply
Ricketts’ poker face
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t really know what’s going on. That’s definitely Jesse and Hector.
I remember Jesse’s friend wearing some costume, but I don’t remember one outside Los Pollos Hermanos.[/quote]Looks like the going away cast party for Giancarlo & Hector. That is Cranston playing Hector.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]He was working for like a bank or something. I think he was wearing a dollar bill.
I don’t think that’s the real Hector. In fact, that might be Bryan Cranston[/quote]I had to go look again and my first thought was that you were right, but the hands say otherwise.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=cdw]Looks like the going away cast party for Giancarlo & Hector. That is Cranston playing Hector.[/quote]Really? Those hands look old. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=GW]While this may actually come to pass, I think it is what the cubs are using for leverage. Theo’s people leak this to the press as a way of saying, if worse comes to worst, i can always just wait…[/quote]Good point, GW.
mb21Quote Reply
No way, look at the face. And the obviously fake hair on the sides. I think the hands are just a weird angle, finger poised to ding the bell.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Ricketts’ poker face
mb21Quote Reply
Compare to the real Hector: http://www.bestweekever.tv/2011-10-10/breaking-bad-season-finale-recap-face-off/
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]No way, look at the face. And the obviously fake hair on the sides. I think the hands are just a weird angle, finger poised to ding the bell.[/quote]I think you guys are right. It appears obvious when you look more closely, but those hands threw me off.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=josh]You’re probably right, in that respect. I think some things were called “vegetables,” perhaps wrongly, by nutritionists when we were kids in order to help diversify people’s diets. Like it’s more important that you eat a variety of fruits, but if you said “Eat three servings of fruit” people would always opt for the sweeter fruits, so they put tomatoes on the other side.
/quote]
There’s nothing wrong with calling a tomato a vegetable. There is no botanical definition of “vegetable;” it simply refers the the fact that it’s an edible part of a plant, and how it is eaten. That’s what I don’t get about the whole “fruit vs. vegetable” debate.
ACTQuote Reply
To put it simply; yes, a tomato is a mature ovary of a tomato plant; therefore it’s a fruit. It’s also consumed as a vegetable.
ACTQuote Reply
You guys are fruits.
MishQuote Reply
I’m not sure what you mean by “consumed as a vegetable.” I think you’re talking about the crappy store bought tomatoes that have little to no taste and couldn’t possibly be considered a fruit. A good home grown tomato is sweet and often eaten by itself in the same way fruit is.
mb21Quote Reply
Wiki has more authority than the Supreme Court.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]You guys are fruits.[/quote]You’re a hooker!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Store bought tomatoes have but one purpose: color.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Store bought tomatoes have but one purpose: color.[/quote]So you would never use store bought tomatoes in your WAR salsa then?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Store bought tomatoes have but one purpose: color.[/quote]Racist.
MishQuote Reply
I always thought this would be pretty cool to have:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/wesley-warren-jr-scrotum_n_1018260.html?1318968582&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%7C105409
MuckerQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]Racist.[/quote]Affirmative action in the produce section!
[quote name=Mucker]I always thought this would be pretty cool to have:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/wesley-warren-jr-scrotum_n_1018260.html?1318968582&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%7C105409%5B/quote%5DHe's his own chair…poor guy…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Wiki has more authority than the Supreme Court.[/quote]The political talk will stop NOW!!!
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]The fruity vegetable talk will stop NOW!!![/quote].
Rice CubeQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/10/18/11/LeBron-isnt-1st–or-2nd–or-3rd/landing_heat.html?blockID=584702&feedID=3565
NEXT. SENTENCE.
GBTSQuote Reply
It’s pretty amazing how utterly and completely uninformed the Cubs beat writers, to man, have been on the FO goings on this season. It seems these guys have no inside sources outside of
Ryan Dempsterthe locker room. None.Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Tango agrees with my take on the cubs and their leverage:
[quote name=tangotiger]The ideal scenario is that Epstein’s guys from a non-Sox team come over, like Hoyer and/or Byrnes, while the Cubs wait a year on Epstein.
In return for waiting, they lose a year of Epstein, but they keep whatever compensation package they would have otherwise sent the Redsox. That’d be a big win for the Cubs.
The Sox instead have to pay Ep 7MM$ for doing nothing. That’d be a huge loss for the Sox.
I hope common sense prevails, and this NetFlix-inspired nightmare goes away. [/quote]
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/proper_compensation_for_epstein/
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]Tango agrees with my take on the cubs and their leverage:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/proper_compensation_for_epstein/%5B/quote%5DWhile I agree with Tango’s larger point, this seems like a classic case of 1.) apples and oranges and 2.) overanalysis.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]While I agree with Tango’s larger point, this seems like a classic case of 1.) apples and oranges and 2.) overanalysis.[/quote]
The logical explanation to me is that the talks are more centered around who is going with epstein, rather than epstein himself. Losing a general manager is not a big deal, as Cherington has already stepped in. If, instead, four guys are moving with him, that represents a significant void that needs to be filled, and a correspondingly high loss for the organization.
GWQuote Reply
This.
BerseliusQuote Reply
I don’t want to wait a year for Theo. Rebuilding entire organizations takes years and I don’t want to put it off just for the sake of a righty McNutt.
Nice SnarkQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]This.[/quote]But overanalysis is kind of what we do, right?
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’m not sure what you mean by “consumed as a vegetable.” I think you’re talking about the crappy store bought tomatoes that have little to no taste and couldn’t possibly be considered a fruit. A good home grown tomato is sweet and often eaten by itself in the same way fruit is.[/quote]At least at my grocery store, tomatoes also function as a science experiment, where the goal was to make a tomato grow to be as large as a baby’s head.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]But overanalysis is kind of what we do, right?[/quote]
I’ll need to go back through every post and set up a regression model to be sure.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]So you would never use store bought tomatoes in your WAR salsa then?[/quote]
Cherry tomatoes —-> more flavor
BerseliusQuote Reply
http://www.salon.com/2011/06/08/tomatoland_interview/
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]But overanalysis is kind of what smart organizations do, right?[/quote]
.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Nice Snark]I don’t want to wait a year for Theo. Rebuilding entire organizations takes years and I don’t want to put it off just for the sake of a righty McNutt.[/quote]I’d rather not do it either, but the Red Sox media seems confident the Red Sox are going after at least one significant prospect and maybe even two. And they won’t budge. I think it’s fairly clear at this point that the Cubs also won’t meet those demands. I get a feeling that Selig is going to have to get involved in this.
mb21Quote Reply
Selig won’t waste his time with this shit until after the World Series.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Selig won’t waste his time with this shit until after the World Series.[/quote]I don’t know. He let the Ricketts announce their purchase of the team during the ’09 WS. Also, it’s bad for the league to have this shit drag on much longer.
I Cant Argue With You TodayQuote Reply
[quote name=Mucker]I always thought this would be pretty cool to have:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/18/wesley-warren-jr-scrotum_n_1018260.html?1318968582&icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%7C105409%5B/quote%5D
(dying laughing)
WaLiQuote Reply
I think we should all contribute.
WaLiQuote Reply
[quote name=I Cant Argue With You Today]I don’t know. He let the Ricketts announce their purchase of the team during the ’09 WS. Also, it’s bad for the league to have this shit drag on much longer.[/quote]Yeah, he might let them announce it, but I meant that Selig might have to get involved with the resolution process to help them reach a deal. That won’t happen until after the WS.
mb21Quote Reply
The person happiest with these negotiations dragging on is Mike Quade. The longer they go on the more likely he gets to keep his job.
mb21Quote Reply
Also, if theo actually plans to go poaching after being hired, the cubs need be concerned about precedent for what they will give up.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, he might let them announce it, but I meant that Selig might have to get involved with the resolution process to help them reach a deal. That won’t happen until after the WS.[/quote]The Cubs and Red Sox finalized this trade two weeks ago. The Chicago beat writers will break the story shortly after the winter meetings.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]The Cubs and Red Sox finalized this trade two weeks ago. The Chicago beat writers will break the story shortly after the winter meetings.[/quote]
and the bosox beat reporters will report that ricketts was wasted throughout the negotiations
GWQuote Reply
I still think the deal goes through, but I’m much less confident now than I was a week ago (or even 3 days ago). The sides appear to be unwilling to budge. Both teams have important matters to decide beyond the current situation. I could easily see one side pulling out at this point saying they have other matters to deal with and that a resolution was nowhere in sight. Theo will eventually join the Cubs, but I’m starting to think there’s a much better chance of that happening at the end of next season than I thought before.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=GW]and the bosox beat reporters will report that ricketts was wasted throughout the negotiations[/quote]That’s not as big of a story if the Cubs win the “trade”…intangibles!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
http://www.thecubreporter.com/2011/10/17/cubs-2011-arizona-instructional-league-final-stats
pretty good numbers from jeimer. also, schlecht seems to have a decent plate eye.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]
[/quote]
Bit.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=GW]http://www.thecubreporter.com/2011/10/17/cubs-2011-arizona-instructional-league-final-stats
pretty good numbers from jeimer. also, schlecht seems to have a decent plate eye.[/quote]
Vogelbach —> 2 SB
Guess he made the middle infielders see their lives flash before their eyes. Watching that rumble into 2B has to be like staring into an oncoming train.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
http://www.cracked.com/article_19496_6-classic-kids-shows-secretly-set-in-nightmarish-universes.html
BerseliusQuote Reply
I love how every year that the Yankees/Red Sox don’t get to the WS, there’s a shit-ton of stories about how the WS is broken (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I still think the deal goes through, but I’m much less confident now than I was a week ago (or even 3 days ago). The sides appear to be unwilling to budge. Both teams have important matters to decide beyond the current situation. I could easily see one side pulling out at this point saying they have other matters to deal with and that a resolution was nowhere in sight. Theo will eventually join the Cubs, but I’m starting to think there’s a much better chance of that happening at the end of next season than I thought before.[/quote]
How do the Cubs always manage to fuck things up or make things more difficult. Is it just because we follow them that it seems that way? I would like to think so, but it seems like there is a lot of history saying otherwise.
WaLiQuote Reply
Let me clarify by saying that I know it isn’t the Cubs fault 100% this is happening and I don’t think that if Theo isn’t signed today then Rickett’s legacy is ruined. I think that things will work themselves out, but it is just frustrating that shit just can’t come easy (dying laughing)
WaLiQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I still think the deal goes through, but I’m much less confident now than I was a week ago (or even 3 days ago). The sides appear to be unwilling to budge. Both teams have important matters to decide beyond the current situation. I could easily see one side pulling out at this point saying they have other matters to deal with and that a resolution was nowhere in sight. Theo will eventually join the Cubs, but I’m starting to think there’s a much better chance of that happening at the end of next season than I thought before.[/quote]I’m still hoping this is a case of intentionally delaying the announcement, or haggling over ancillary details rather than the core deal. If the sticking point is who Theo gets to take with him, maybe those contracts go through even next year, so waiting still brings some of the same problems. It could be that taking all the guys Theo wants now in one swoop actually is easier than waiting for individual contracts to expire.
binkyQuote Reply
(dying laughing), Alvin has topped himself today.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/19/2499077/theo-epstein-guide-cubs-fans
BerseliusQuote Reply
Almost everything I read now says “Cubs expected to hire Epstein as team president.” I’ve backed off my “don’t like it” stance I had yesterday thanks to you guys telling me I’m an idiot, but if that’s what they’re hiring him for, wait a year.
I don’t know if it’s leverage as GW said. The Cubs would still have to compensate the Padres for Hoyer or Byrnes.
mb21Quote Reply
Can you imagine Alvin interviewing Theo?
mb21Quote Reply
maybe Al can remind Theo to brush his teeth in the morning and how to eat pizza
dylanjQuote Reply
It’s articles like those that lead me to believe Alvin is just fucking with people.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]maybe Al can remind Theo to brush his teeth in the morning and how to eat pizza[/quote](dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Almost everything I read now says “Cubs expected to hire Epstein as team president.” I’ve backed off my “don’t like it” stance I had yesterday thanks to you guys telling me I’m an idiot, but if that’s what they’re hiring him for, wait a year.
I don’t know if it’s leverage as GW said. The Cubs would still have to compensate the Padres for Hoyer or Byrnes.[/quote]
Hoyer could hit a snag but I don’t think there would be a problem with Byrnes, since he’s not running the show and would be getting a promotion. We said that about Theo too but I don’t think every franchise is as assholish as the Red Sox are being right now.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s articles like those that lead me to believe Alvin is just fucking with people.[/quote]
Oh, I’m sure he is here. He’s just doing it, so, so poorly (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
I don’t know why Hoyer would want to leave anyway. He’s running the show in SD but would be Theo’s assistant, more or less in Chi? Probably better for his career to stick in SD.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Hoyer could hit a snag but I don’t think there would be a problem with Byrnes, since he’s not running the show and would be getting a promotion. We said that about Theo too but I don’t think every franchise is as assholish as the Red Sox are being right now.[/quote]I don’t think they are either, but if I’m the Padres and I see that the Cubs are willing to compensate, I’m expecting that in return.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Can you imagine Alvin interviewing Theo?[/quote]Alvin: So you came from Boston?
Theo: Umm…yes. I thought that was pretty well –
Alvin: That’s in New England, right?
Theo: Of course.
Alvin: Is that a state?
Theo: Well…no, it’s a reg-
Alvin: Because Illinois is a state.
Theo: …right.
Alvin: Is New England actually still part of England?
Theo: Ummm…no, its-
Alvin: I just want to set the record straight on whether or not you came from England.
Theo: I did not come from England.
Alvin: So where is Boston then?
Theo: Massachusetts.
Alvin: Is that like a state?
GBTSQuote Reply
our 1st round pick had 9 k’s and no walks in the instruct league. Sounds like a true cub
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Almost everything I read now says “Cubs expected to hire Epstein as team president.” I’ve backed off my “don’t like it” stance I had yesterday thanks to you guys telling me I’m an idiot, but if that’s what they’re hiring him for, wait a year.
I don’t know if it’s leverage as GW said. The Cubs would still have to compensate the Padres for Hoyer or Byrnes.[/quote]
Hoyer is still under contract, not sure about byrnes. the rumors have been flying about byrnes talking to ricketts since the beginning of the season, so I’m guessing he’s pretty available. And the leverage from the Cubs perspective is more along the lines of: all we need at the minimum is an interim gm for a year, and we think we can get one of theo’s chosen people to do it without having to go through you.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Alvin: So you came from Boston?
Theo: Umm…yes. I thought that was pretty well –
Alvin: That’s in New England, right?
Theo: Of course.
Alvin: Is that a state?
Theo: Well…no, it’s a reg-
Alvin: Because Illinois is a state.
Theo: …right.
Alvin: Is New England actually still part of England?
Theo: Ummm…no, its-
Alvin: I just want to set the record straight on whether or not you came from England.
Theo: I did not come from England.
Alvin: So where is Boston then?
Theo: Massachusetts.
Alvin: Is that like a state?[/quote]This might actually happen if Theo doesn’t punch Alvin in the face prior to the interview.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]our 1st round pick had 9 k’s and no walks in the instruct league. Sounds like a true cub[/quote]
i think he got hurt, as well.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s articles like those that lead me to believe Alvin is just fucking with people.[/quote]It’s all just a really elaborate piece of performance art.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]It’s all just a really elaborate piece of performance art.[/quote]
Tomorrow Al will send a lamp made out of meat to Randy Bush
BerseliusQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/another-shitty-cubs-season-in-review-marlon-byrd.html
mb21Quote Reply