(Ed Note- Due to OV's recent acquisition by Bain Capital DylanJ's job has been retroactively outsourced. Today's update will be presented by "John" Prapalapakesh).
Brett Jackson struck out 3 times in 4 AB's, so you know he is getting close to MLB ready. Brooks Raley had a decent start and if Ryan Dempster ever gets over his shock and awe at being traded I wouldn't mind Raley getting a look. He's done well this season in Iowa.
Smokies
No Game
Daytona
Rainout
Yao Lin Wang made his second start since moving back to the rotation. Wang worked 3.2 IP and struck out 5 while not allowing a single run. Wang now has 46 K's in 42 IP.
Boise (As always keep in mind low minor stats don't count. So ignore the following non-information)
Tayler Scott turned in a great outing last night pitching 6 shutout innings while striking out 4 and walking 1. Scott has been the best pitcher in Boise this season but needs to work on the walks a bit. He has 17 in 37 IP. Gioskar Amaya just keeps hitting going 3-4 with a pair of stolen bases. After a strong start Jeimer Candelario has really cooled off and is now sporting a pedestrian .771 OPS. But he is also the youngest guy on the team so I'm not too worried at this point.
Albert Almora hit a crushing HR off the scoreboard last night in his first pro game. If you haven't seen the video go search around and enjoy it. Soler was 0-5 with a pair of strikeouts and in what is hopefully his last AZL game Dan Vogelbach went 1-5 with a double. Vogelbach got the call to Boise and finished his AZL season with a fake .324/.391/.686 good for a 1.078 OPS.
Comments
TheVan wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVhTDNlbsSc
Rice CubeQuote Reply
goddammit, Brett Jackson, will you please immediately gratify me by validating my faith in you?
gaius mariusQuote Reply
brett jackson won’t survive in Chicago. Anyone who strikes out 250 + times will be booed out of town.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
He does have the being white thing going for him though
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
gaius marius wrote:
Don’t tell me what to do
Bert JacksonQuote Reply
I like it that you were retroactively outsourced.
mb21Quote Reply
Racist.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Hey armchair psychologists, what say we pitch in to take out a full page ad in the trib effusively thanking Dempster for his time with the cubs. Think that might work?
GWQuote Reply
that’s beautiful GW.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ GW:
He may be blindsided by that.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
GW wrote:
BerseliusQuote Reply
Berselius wrote:
Based on his enthusiasm and talent for these types of projects, it’ll cost us of us more in postage than the check we’d have to write to cover our portion.
I vote that DJ pays for it out of his severance from Bain.
SVBQuote Reply
“John” Prapalapakesh punctuates better than DJ. Improvements already at OV!
SVBQuote Reply
Dylan is on a fucking roll on twitter
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
severance? ha!
dylanjQuote Reply
dempster is making me mad
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
I would have to think he accepts the deal today OR we dont pitch him tomorrow
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
It’s days like these that make me so fucking glad I don’t spend much time on twitter or facebook.
@ bubblesdachimp:
Why? Has he fucked your main bitch or something? Shit in your cereal? Piss in your mouth? Oh, he hasn’t accepted a trade yet. Yeah, getting mad at him is perfectly rational.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
What the fuck? It’s his motherfucking decision. If he wants to accept a trade he will. If he doens’t, it’s his fucking right. You’re going to punish him for exercising his motherfucking right? I think we should send you to prison for exercising your right to free speech by that comment.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
And when bubbles mad….
WaLiQuote Reply
I always assumed that baseball players were robot puppets put on the earth soley for our enjoyment. A puppet like Dempster being allowed free will? Not on my watch!
EdwinQuote Reply
@ WaLi:
We’re all thinking it, so I’m just going to say it. Why does that monkey have a penis growing out of his back?
EdwinQuote Reply
i think dempsters latest tweet thanking the fans and acknowledging nothing is official is a sign he is going to accept and go
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Thanks Edwin
SVBQuote Reply
@ mb21:
its just annoying is all that he is butthurt that he heard on twitter.
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
I think it’s a tweet that acknowledges his fans for the support over the last couple days and the person writing it isn’t even Ryan Dempster and doesn’t have any idea.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Walk a mile in the man’s shoes…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I would love to get woken up from a nap to find myself in a playoff race while making 15 million a year.
Where do i sign up for that?
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ mb21:
That’s what I was saying. How can we be mad at him when a) he has the right under his contract do reject trades and b) we don’t really know the full story, we’re just sort of guessing at motivation or even at the details.
I want an awesome rebuild on this team as much as the next guy, but I’m also pretty sure plan b of just offering him arb and taking the draft pick would work about as well as a trade, so there’s no point in getting emotional.
joshQuote Reply
butthurt is a funny word
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
There’s someone at Josh’s World’s-Craziest Writer’s-Meet-up that can help you with that.
SVBQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
He’s been there 9 years, has a family, it takes time. You obviously don’t have anyone in your life that you’d have to talk to before making a decision or are so selfish that you think his purpose on earth is to please you. The Cubs should have notified him. I don’t give a fuck who leaked it. They absolutely should have notified Dempster before he heard on twitter. It’s a trade. Sources leak shit and then it’s on twitter. The Cubs should know this and should have contacted him. Common decency. I hope you’re fired someday on twitter, bubs. Let me know what you think then.
I don’t undertand sports fans.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
I’m sure Dempster would love that. And I’m sure he’d like to wake up next to his wife with his daughter in the next room as frequently as possible. But hey, bubs would do it without thought so Dempster ought to motherfucking do it too.
mb21Quote Reply
@ josh:
Agreed. Even if the Cubs were getting Bryce Harper and Stephen Strasburg I’m not going to be upset if Dempster declined. I have absolutely no business being upset over something that doesn’t affect me one damn bit. Most people end up living close to where they grew up, but most baseball fans think their players should get on a plane and move wherever the fuck they’re told even if they can decline. And apparently, if they do, they should be benched because we have to penalize the rat bastard for exercising a right he earned over many years.
mb21Quote Reply
MB21:
Guess that’s why I’ve never signed up for Twitter. Except for something like “Check out so-and-so’s latest article on biogeochemical cycling of novel forests in African submontane regions” I don’t think I’d get any value out of it.
SVBQuote Reply
He wasnt fucking fired on twitter cmmon (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
That is absurd
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Bubs, you’ve undoubtedly been butthurt when you favorite wrestler. You’ve surely been butthurt for at least a week when your Gamecocks lose, but you’re going to talk about someone being butthurt because they have to decide if they want to move away from their wife, child and the city they’ve called home for a decade? Any person who has gotten butthurt over their favorite team losing a game can’t possibly say a damn word about Dempster here.
mb21Quote Reply
MB you analogy isn’t even close to apt and the fact you’re blaming the Cubs gir s leak that came from the Braves is bizarre
Mobile MOQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
I know, but I’m assuming you can’t be traded so the equivalent is getting fired. Regardless of how absurd that comment may have been, I can guarantee it’s not as absurd as your comments about Dempster.
mb21Quote Reply
Besides all that, we don’t really know if the trade has even been nixed. If we’re throwing stock into Twitter rumors, I’ve seen rumblings that its still on the table.
joshQuote Reply
@ Mobile MO:
The Cubs don’t know that something like this is going to be leaked? This isn’t Theo’s first year in baseball. He knows how this shit goes and it’s irrelevant anyway. I don’t care if he’s home crying. It’s his decision. At no point in time did he relinquish that right.
mb21Quote Reply
Imagine the scenario…
You tell your boss that you have a list of places you’d like to go if they can swing it but you want approval first.
Boss finalizes the details before bringing it to you for approval, but your entire company knows before you do and throws you a party and you have no idea what the fuck is going on because you haven’t approved anything and didn’t know any of the details.
You have a family firmly entrenched in the original location and a daughter with special needs who is receiving care from doctors that you trust, and you haven’t yet established a) a new home in the new location b) doctors you trust in said new location (even if it’s a temporary move).
How would you feel?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I gotta be honest here. Series run or no, you’d never get me to move to Atlanta.
joshQuote Reply
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Look the scenario is very simple:
Its two months on the road. He gets to go to a potential playoff team. He already said he would go there. I am sure he already talked to his family about it..
Its not like this was The Oakland A’s… he is butthurt for no reason
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Sounds like part of it is that he’d rather go to LA, and LA is interested
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ josh:
Yeah, it hasn’t even been called off yet. It’s most likely going to happen, but even if it doesn’t, there’s not one Cubs fan who can be mad about this and say he’s even being somewhat rational.
mb21Quote Reply
Rosenthal says this is about Dempster wanting to go to LA. In that case say no, tell him he’s a Cub the rest of the year and take the draft pick
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Mobile MO:
It could be that the Cubs tried to hammer Dempster’s phone to inform him but he had it turned off. Nobody knows.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
You’re delusional, bubs, but it’s OK for you to be butthurt because your favorite fucking wrestler lost. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
Rosey thinks it’s because Demp is holding out to see what happens with the Dodgers, while we’re speculating:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago-cubs-ryan-dempster-does-not-want-trade-atlanta-braves-los-angeles-dodgers-072412
joshQuote Reply
Fuck it. If they dont offer Lee keep him. I also would not let him start another game till after July 31.
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ josh:
I was last to know on this story, obviously. Twitter!
joshQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
I know the Dodgers didn’t want to give up Zack Lee yet, but what in the Dodgers’ system is equivalent to a Randall Delgado? I don’t think a trade to LA is out of the question if that’s what he wants, even though the Dodgers seemed kind of flaky about the situation last week.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Bubs does not get mad when his favorite wrestler loses… It happens
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
you can’t say you support workers rights and then get pissed if the the worker doesnt want to get traded.
That said, the Cubs are under no obligation to send him where he wants to go.
dylanjQuote Reply
I also thought they wanted Garza for Zack Lee so if they threw in Dempster maybe they can get a super-haul back (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I have no emotion about it. The only emotion I’m feeling is the fun of the trade deadline. To me, these guys are all just pawns on a chessboard.
joshQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
The thing I wonder is…if the Cubs are playing hardball with Dempster and vice versa, would he accept the arb deal just to spite them, or would he decide that he’s no longer wanted and go elsewhere? *ponders*
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
Agreed. If Dempster wants the Dodgers and they can’t get a decent deal, keep him. They don’t have to trade him.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Brilliant idea. This way the Cubs never get another free agent who is willing to sign with them because they might fear being penalized for the dumbest fucking shit imaginable. Just brilliant.
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
I hate collectively bargained rights.. They are the worst.
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Why would we let him pitch and potentially hurt trade value or get injured?
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Wow.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
I don’t know. Because you aren’t ever going to get another free agent to sign a contract if you don’t let him pitch. That’s just one reason. That and the fact he’s earned the right to decline a trade. I”m sure there are others, but I figured the inability to ever sign any other free agent would resonate with you since you’re all owner, all the time.
mb21Quote Reply
if he wants a 1 yr 12 million deal then he can accept that too (dying laughing). We’ll just trade him again next year
dylanjQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I gotta believe there’s 300% less emotion in the actual people involved than in the fans.
Proposed storyline: Deal was close and the Braves got giddy and started leaking like rusty pipes. Demp and Theo talk meanwhile. Demp asked if Theo could try the Dodgers once more because he’d really love to live in LA. Atlanta’s not bad, but you know…it’s Atlanta. Theo said, ‘yeah, cool, man. I’ll give it a go and see what I can do.” Twitter explodes. Here we are.
joshQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Rice, this shit happens in the real world. At my company they tell you to jump and move to a new location and you pretty much have to do it. And we don’t get paid millions. That’s how I ended up in NC this year. At least Dempster has a say in it. And it is only for two fucking months. If he can’t move away for two months then he has issues.
Being traded is part of sports. It happens all over, not just in baseball. Players enter the sports world for the love of the game, but mainly for money. Yes, he earned is 10/5 rights but if he didn’t want to get traded then he shouldn’t tell Jed/Theo he’d accept a trade. Should he be upset he heard about it on Twitter first? Sure. But don’t be all pissy about it. It isn’t Thoyer’s fault. The leak came from the Braves side.
I said this about Dempster but it holds true of any player.
WaLiQuote Reply
Also I’d like to add I’m not mad or upset at Dempster, but I think fans have the right to be upset with him. As Omar says: All in the game yo, all in the game.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ josh:
I’d like to believe this is what happened and I blame the Braves for everything, including square wheels.
@ WaLi:
The fact that he has a say in it changes things substantially.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
But he had his say and he said ATL was okay.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I doubt that would matter. Teams shut down players all the time when working out deals. Look at Greinke in Milwaukee.
At this point
either
a) insist on Lee or a package of the equivalent
b) if we dont get him go back to ATL
c) offer arb if neither work
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Point is we have no idea what happened. What are we mad at D for? We don’t even know if he rejected a trade. We’re getting mad at the idea that he might have rejected a theoretical trade, maybe.
joshQuote Reply
WaLi wrote:
Yes, but Dempster can decline it. This isn’t any other business. He gave up money in his contract to have the NTC and then when he was 10-5 he had full no-trade rights. The Cubs reaped the benefits of his NTC in that they paid him less money and now when he wants to use it people are mad?
mb21Quote Reply
@ WaLi:
I think from all stories it sounded like his first choice was LAD and his second choice was ATL, and Josh’s comment makes the most sense. Even if he’s eventually okay with ATL the media basically strongarmed him and while it might be silly to be butthurt about this, you can definitely understand why he’d want to sit back and digest all this before he gives the OK.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I think people are more just upset that they don’t know then anything. Brett just made a conjecture that Rosey’s story has hurt the trade to the Dodgers. How can you even speculate on something like that?
joshQuote Reply
@ WaLi:
Your situation is similar to a player who has been way underpaid and has not yet reached free agency, but once players reach free agency they get to bargain for their contracts.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Exactly, that was the contract. If you don’t have that right, it’s because you didn’t have someone smarter than you negotiate your contract, or your company doesn’t value your skills on the same level as a professional athlete. Probably because you don’t bring hundreds of millions of dollars into the organization almost single handedly.
joshQuote Reply
In this day and age fans of a specific breed (read: us) root primarily for trades, the draft, and other transactions. That should be abundantly obvious to the point that it needs no explanation. In light of that, it would be irrational for us not to be upset by the interference in what seems, at worst, to be a solid move by the front office.
To suggest that you don’t understand that is just disingenuous.
GWQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I figure a player with 10-5 rights calls the shots and he can do whatever he wants as far as trades go. He owes nothing to the fans, nothing to the team and only does what he wants. I’m fine with that. That’s just how it is.
mb21Quote Reply
@ josh:
No idea? Really? I think we have a pretty damn good idea of what happened.
GWQuote Reply
GW wrote:
Don’t include me.
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
If true, perhaps. I just don’t buy that we know anything concrete at this point. It feels like shadowboxing.
joshQuote Reply
@ GW:
I think I might have an idea, but not much of one. Consider just this morning the news was the deal would get done, Dempster would accept the trade, then it was that he was blindsided, then it was that he wants the Dodgers and in an hour it will be that he has too many obligations in Chicago and an hour after that it’s because he was butthurt and an hour later it’s because he has a toe fungus that started to concern the Braves and later tonight it will be that he was in a car crash.
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
I think it’s fine to be upset about the trade potentially being nixed but the disproportionate amount of anger heaped on Dempster is what I have a problem with. Yeah, I’m annoyed, but I don’t think he’s the Devil or anything (dying laughing) It’s just one of those things that are out of my control, and while I wish he’d just GTFO, I begrudgingly understand why he is taking his time and might even nix the deal.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
This Demp prefers LA news is sure going to kill the Cubs leverage with the Dodgers
BerseliusQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
these aren’t mutually exclusive. and this isn’t the first time we heard that he wanted the dodgers.
GWQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Agreed. Disappointed the Cubs didn’t get a prospect yet? Understandable. Disappointed enough to direct that anger at someone who has been a Cub for 9 years? Not understandable.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
i don’t think that’s true. i think you are a big fan of the draft pick compensation and the other stuff when it benefits the club.
GWQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
yeah, exactly. People are ready to lynch the guy based on some rumors.
Besides, how does this hurt the Dodgers trade? It’s not like they would realize they get Demp for free. That’s not what he said, he said he’d prefer LA. That means the Dodgers get one more chance to outbid the Braves. That’s part of negotiation, isn’t it? Whatever. Call me what this shit is hammered out.
joshQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
I think that forces one of several things…
1. Demp stays with a miniscule chance of remaining a Cub past this season because everyone’s mad and wants the draft pick;
2. Demp goes assuming the Braves didn’t force an extension (or even if they did) and then comes back as a free agent (assuming no extension), which would be ideal for him;
3. Cubs have to figure out a new trade which is improbable because they may be running out of suitors and leverage.
I’d like to think that Dempster acquiesces and just goes to ATL, but I’m often wrong.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ josh:
Depends on whether Demp said “I prefer LA” or “I demand LA”…if the latter, then negotiating doesn’t work because LA knows they can continue to lowball the Cubs, in my mind.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
I disagree. He basically granted the Dodgers a free life to make one more bid. If they don’t use it, he goes to ATL. How is that a collapse of negotiations? Sounds like a standard business deal to me.
joshQuote Reply
@ GW:
No, and it definitely wasn’t the first time the Cubs heard that. I’m fairly certain that Dempster made his wishes known to the Cubs and even after an offer they went elsewhere. That’s fine. They can do that and Dempster can decline. Seems to me both made a decision (actually, Dempster hasn’t made one yet).
mb21Quote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
According to Rosey he said he preferred. No one ever said “demand” — that’s fan emotionalism coming out.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
The Cubs could lose some leverage if the Braves move on.
mb21Quote Reply
But let’s be clear here, Dempster has always had the leverage as far as trading him goes. The Cubs didn’t really have any leverage. Dempster did.
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
Is this intended to be in response to me?
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Last report was that the Braves still wanted in. It’s not like they stopped needing pitching. If it goes on too long, then maybe that does kill the deal. Then we can all sit back and wait for the spin. At this point it sounds like nothing to panic about, to me.
joshQuote Reply
@ mb21:
yeah, well the two are sort of coupled, if you hadn’t noticed. and we are pretty isolated in this here corner of the universe. if dempster was friends with all of us and we ate dinner together on a weekly basis as a reward for our good behavior, i’m sure we would feel differently.
look, i’m not saying it’s moral to be upset with dempster, and depending on how that anger is expressed it may be very wrong. but it is definitely understandable.
GWQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
Except they have to offer arbitration to qualify for the compensation pick, which means a one year guaranteed offer of about $12 million. I doubt Dempster would accept, but stranger things have happened.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
no. maybe i wasn’t clear. i think bubbles is a fan of collectively bargained rights when they benefit the team.
GWQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
I totally agree with you that what he’s doing is within his rights and that he needs to do what he can to protect his family and get his best deal.
However, I can’t agree with the assertion that the fans would be wrong to be bent out of shape if he rejected a trade. I root for the laundry first and the guys who wear the uniforms second, and frankly the latter is usually a function of rooting for guys on your team to do well simply because you want your team to do well. If one of those players does something that damages the ability of the team to succeed, I have every right as a fan to decide not to support that player’s decision (and by extension the player himself) regardless of whether or not that decision is in his best interests and/or fully within his rights.
If Dempster rejects a trade that’s beneficial to the Cubs and that hurts the organization, I don’t have a problem with ceasing my support of him as a Cub. That’s different than saying that he shouldn’t be able to excercise his rights, or that those rights shouldn’t be given to players. But I want to see the rebuilding process go as quickly as possible, and I don’t feel bad at all about maintaining that attitude.
uncle daveQuote Reply
.@ mb21:
Demp doesn’t owe anything to the Cubs and the Cubs don’t owe anything to him. But he had teams on a list and he allegedly backed out on that. He has had his career taken care of by the Cubs organization and has been greatly compensated. It’s a shame that if these reports are true, it may dampen his relationship with the Cubs and fans.
WaLiQuote Reply
GW wrote:
You can be disappointed there is no transaction without being upset at the player. It’s a trick most baseball fans don’t know is possible, but it is. There is no reason to be upset at Dempster. It isn’t understandable. I wasn’t especially happy the Cubs signed Soler, but it would be ridiculous if I was upset at Soler. It would be equally ridiculous if I directed my anger at Samardzija because I though the decision to move him to the rotation was dumb. Being upset at either one of those two isn’t an understandable position. Being upset at the decision, I think, is.
mb21Quote Reply
@ WaLi:
The muddied relationship may convince him to decline the qualifying offer since I doubt the Cubs would want him back if he decides to nix the trade…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
How many times have people said hate the contract, but not the player? Well, if it’s understandable to be upset at a player over a transaction then we should expect people to hate the player and not the contract.
mb21Quote Reply
@ uncle dave:
Well said.
WaLiQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
yes, well it just so happens that there is no transaction explicitly because of the player.
GWQuote Reply
Berselius wrote:
this is what pisses me off. players (whether Dempster does or not) get upset about rumors of negotiations involving them in the media all the time, even though it does nothing material to diminish their professional position — but do not hesitate to have their agent flap their gums in the wind about what they want, materially hamstringing the team trying to move them on.
letting players get to ten-and-five is one of the least desirable things in the management of major league baseball clubs. it was a bad idea when Sammy got there, it was a bad idea when Derrek Lee got there, and it was a bad idea when Dempster got there.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
WaLi wrote:
It will with the fans, but teams are used to this shit.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
To be fair I think bubbles said dempster was making him mad, not he was mad at dempster (I know you were talking to GW, but bubs started this whole arguement (dying laughing))
WaLiQuote Reply
gaius marius wrote:
And how often do you see players say stupid ass shit on twitter? They represent the team whether they like it or not. If I say stupid as shit on Twitter and my company found out about it, my ass is getting fired.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ gaius marius:
I’m not the biggest fan of letting players get to 10-5, but it also doesn’t bother me. The guys who usually get there are the ones who will negotiate a no trade clause in their contract so I don’t think it actually matters. If 10-5 didn’t exist Sammy and Lee would have had that included in their contract. Dempster’s expired when it did ONLY because he’d then have 10-5 rights, which are better than nearly any team will add to a contract.
As for Dempster and his agent, I don’t see it as any differently than what the Cubs do. Each want to improve their position and each try to do so through the media.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
this is more akin to a player agreeing to a contract, and then backing out.
GWQuote Reply
@ WaLi:
The difference between you and them is that they do something few people can do. As a result, they get away with a lot of shit that you won’t. A fry cook will get fired for the most meaningless shit. Anybody can be a fry cook. There aren’t many people in this world who can play Major League Baseball. That’s why they make the money.
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
Did Dempster agree to a trade and then back out? I’m not aware of any trade that he agreed to and then said no thanks.
mb21Quote Reply
I think you guys are all wrong about the average fan. The average fan wants Dempster to stay because they become attached to these players. Especially when said player is having a career year. The fact that his career year is a BABIP anomaly induced career year is probably something that the average fan does not understand. I don’t think the fans would be mad if Dempster nixed any trades. The difference with Derrek Lee was he was in an obvious decline, he led the league in GIDP’s and it was getting frustrating to watch. Plus Dempster has whiteness on his side, which is huge in the land of Cubdome.
That said, I think he should do what’s best for him and his family, and he’s got every right to do so.
TheVanQuote Reply
@ mb21:
it’s akin (aka, similar). he listed the braves and has since changed his mind.
GWQuote Reply
TheVan wrote:
I think you’re right. Good point. We tend to think the average fan is someone who posts non-stop about them online, but they’re not even close to the average fan. The average fan still misses Carlos Zambrano. That makes me feel better, TV.
mb21Quote Reply
You’re all way too worked up over this. To settle you down and direct your ire elsewhere, listen to this ode to Ichiro that Death Cab For Cutie frontman Ben Gibbard (and former Mr. Zooey Deschanel) wrote, recorded, and released today, for some reason (dying laughing).
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/53711/death-cab-for-cuties-ben-gibbard-misses-ichiro-already
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
I didn’t say the average fan. I said “us” (mb21 is henceforth excluded per his request).
GWQuote Reply
@ GW:
We think he just handed Thoyer a list with some names on it without comment? Wasn’t it most likely a list that went something like this?
Dodgers; first choice, if at all possible, trade me here
Braves: If Dodgers aren’t possible, Braves are next. Would accept trade if no deal possible with Dodgers
blah blah blah
I highly doubt the list was just this:
Dodgers
Braves
Spiders
Colt 45s
Browns
Expos
We know Dempster and Thoyer have had several conversations. If it was as simple as a list, there’s no need for that.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
If the random people who sit around me at Wrigley are any guide, the average fan not only thinks Kerry Wood is still on the team, but that Ron Santo is still in the radio booth.
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
@ GW:
I said average fan.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
perhaps and perhaps not, but in any case this forfeiture of rights on the part of the team should be made to come at a very heavy price.
having to replace the expected value of a guy like Delgado in the free agent market is probably impossible given what he represents as a controlled-cost starting pitcher. the Cubs sustain quite a lot of damage to their on-field prospects if they are compelled to go to the Dodgers and can get nothing similar. it might cost the Cubs something on the order of three wins a year for the next five years (the years when Delgado would’ve been cost controlled).
gaius mariusQuote Reply
@ mb21:
fine. thevan should have been more specific in his “you guys.” (dying laughing)
GWQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
but the difference is that the Cubs (and Braves and Dodgers) can’t materially change the equation by grousing in the media unless they make spurious accusations that people take at face value (which no one does), such as implying something about work ethic or whatever.
a player with veto rights, on the other hand, can materially alter trade negotiations by removing potential competing suitors by fiat. adding information as a third party into negotiations can be devastating.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
@ GW:
What was mentioned early was that fans would be upset with Dempster if he nixed a trade. What should’ve been said is the people on this site would’ve been upset. And that’s because you guys understand the business side of things, the money side of things, and the fact that Dempster isn’t as good as his 2012 stats say he is. But you guys are the minority. The drunk guy sitting in the left field bleachers wearing his Dempster jersey doesn’t care what prospects the Cubs could get by selling high on Dempster. He probably hates everything about the fire sales involved with rebuilding a team, and trading players they’ve been watching for the last 4-9 years. And he’s in the majority.
TheVanQuote Reply
@ gaius marius:
Not at this time, but how much do they benefit by paying minor leaguers next to nothing, having the lowest minimum salary in the major sports, having a guy under club control for up to 12 to 15 years and having the player perform for cheap until he has 6+ years of service time? It’s not like the Cubs aren’t getting benefits here that the players don’t. That Ryan Dempster in his later years gets some of them back is absolutely fine with me.
That Ryan Dempster and other veterans refuse to pay more for league minimum, figure out a way to pay minor leaguers more, set up a more fair system for those with between 0-6 years of service time isn’t. If I’m going to complain about Dempster it’s that and he’s just a small part of the problem.
mb21Quote Reply
As a fan, Dempster isn’t much more to me than an asset to my team. Like you’ve said many times on here MB, outside being a rapist or some shit you don’t care if a guy is an asshole. Well I don’t really give a shit about Dempster’s life. So him having told me he’d do what’s best for my favorite team and now not doing that pisses me off. Because he, as a person, doesn’t mean shit to me.
DoogolasQuote Reply
gaius marius wrote:
I agree, but we can’t talk about the unfairness of this without addressing the unfairness of how long teams can control players and how little they can pay them. Dempster is one of the few who play professional baseball who get paid even close to what they are worth while the owners get to pay the rest of them well under their actual value.
Dempster was drafted in 1995 and wasn’t able to file for free agency until after 2003. The Marlins and Reds controlled him for 9 years and paid him below market value.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
the teams do definitely benefit from the old reserve clause reasonsing, no doubt. i’d prefer to see something more like the European football transfer market myself. but someone is going to have to overturn that Supreme Court exemption first.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
@ Doogolas:
I know what you’re trying to do, but that’s not really what I meant. I meant I don’t care what these people do. If they can play, great, I’ll root for them. I’ve also always been a big fan of the player’s rights. Even the asshole ones.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Boo f’n hoo wish I could have been so unfortunate to be paid as much as he was during that time. Welcome to the real world. If the Braves were on his list and now he is back peddling if I’m the Cubs I tell him to go FUCK himself. He can finish the season in Chicago plain and simple. If he really wants on a contending team he accepts the deal even with his 10-5 and NTC the Cubs hold all the marbles like it or not.
pinetarQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I’m not doing anything except explaining why I feel I have every right to be annoyed at Dempster. Anyone who is, I’m pretty sure, doesn’t actually hate the human being. But I feel like, as fans, we have every right to be annoyed right now. Both at the media or Braves or whomever leaked this crap way too early and at Dempster for, possibly, talking out his ass. If you’re going to tell the whole world something, follow through on it. I care about this team and was told good news about this team. Then that person took that good news away from me. I’m not saying Dempster doesn’t have the right to do this at all, I’m just saying him doing it pisses me off.
Hell, Milton Bradley had every right to be a dick. It doesn’t mean people have to like it.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ gaius marius:
I’d like to do away with the draft and let players sign with whoever for as much as they want and as long as they want. Then if they’re stuck with a team we can at least say it was a contract they agreed to, but a situation agreed to by people who aren’t even affected by it is ridiculous.
This is one reason why I don’t often complain about how much a person makes. Yeah, Soriano was overpaid and he was overpaid at the time, but he was probably underpaid and if he wasn’t, many others were.
I don’t think anyone can deny that with the current system the owners are a hell of a lot better off than the players. As such, I don’t have any sympathy for them if they can’t make a trade with one team or another because a veteran nixes it.
mb21Quote Reply
pinetar wrote:
Cubs don’t hold shit. Dempster gets to say if he goes or stays. All the Cubs can do is play him if he stays. If they don’t, they’ll never find another free agent to sign and they’ll suck the rest of our lives. I’m pretty sure the Cubs would rather not suck the rest of our lives than give Dempster some piddly little penalty.
mb21Quote Reply
Doogolas wrote:
That just doesn’t make sense to me.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
See, I couldn’t care less about the owners either. I mostly skimmed this particular thread(?) but if anyone is arguing that, I don’t really get it. I don’t give a single crap about the owner’s rights, and I’m totally cool with a player having 10-5 rights. But as a fan I feel I have every right to be pissed when Dempster said he’d do one thing and is now doing another and it negatively impacts my favorite team.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Why? He told me that my favorite team could do what is best for them and now he’s not letting them. Why can’t I be upset about that?
If he didn’t say that a month ago, I would absolutely support him in his decision to veto the trade. But he did say it. He did it to himself.
DoogolasQuote Reply
Goog lord, I have been strawmanned to death.
1.) I AM NOT DISPUTING THAT IT IS HIS RIGHT. I FULL FUCKING ACCEPT THIS AS IRREFUTABLE FACT.
2.) I AM NOT MAD AT RYAN DEMPSTER. THAT WOULD BE ASININE.
What I am saying is, it strikes me as more than a little duplicitous of Dempster to put a team on the list, let his GM go through all the work to get the deal hammered out, and then turn down that deal.
But it is right to do so, and good for him for trying to use the bit of leverage he has to get the deal he wants. But jsut because I recognize those things doesn’t mean I have to pretend that Dempster is some blameless fucking Eugene Debs clone instead of a dishonest clown with a fantastic set of pitches. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
You are so full of shit your eyes are brown. The Cubs hold the entire bag of marbles. He has already stated he wanted to go to a contending team. He can’t do shit unless the Cubs try and move him and until they do then he has no say in the matter. Who said anything about not playing him and why would they do that? They hold all the marbles because they don’t have to move him and I’m sure they’d be just as happy with the draft compensation for his ass almost as much as they would the return on a trade. The front office is doing nothing more than looking to the future and he is not a part of it.
pinetarQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Basically. That’s the better way to word it. I’m not even mad at Dempster, I’m just kind of mad that the series of events took place that they did. And Dempster is partly to blame for it by being, as you so eloquently put it, a dishonest clown with a fantastic set of pitches.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Debs had a sick 12-6 curve.
uncle daveQuote Reply
@ pinetar:
That’s what I’m saying. The Cubs want to move him, but because Dempster has the leverage here it’s not really up to them. I’m also sure they’d be content with the compensation pick.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Doogolas:
What’s the point of having the NTC if you can’t use it? If LA is his first choice, he should be able to refuse any trade until he’s sure he won’t be going there, even if Atlanta is also on his list. It sounds like he carefully structured his contract to include that right, and the Cubs agreed to it. In fact, he doesn’t even have to accept a trade to one of the teams on his list, because it’s a full no-trade clause. He won’t do that, but I’m just saying it’s well within his rights if he wanted to.
TheVanQuote Reply
Hey guys. Just wanted to let you know that yours is one of three blogs I’ll do my Harry Caray impersonation for.
Probably.
Ryan Dempster FoundationQuote Reply
Mercurial Outfielder wrote:
FWIW, I was specifically addressing bubs comments and not anything you said.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Agreed. The Cubs cannot and will not hold Dempster’s feet to the fire here. That would be FA market suicide.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
mb, in July 2001 am i to understand that you didn’t feel any anger or frustration towards fred mcgriff?
GWQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
He doesn’t have a NTC. He has 10-5 rights, which gives him the right to veto any trade.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Yeah, I’m sure the Cubs don’t really care about Dempster holding out, given that they can snag two picks if he stays, and it won’t piss him off to stay here.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
He publicly stated that he would do what is best for the Cubs. He then proceeded to give a list of teams that he’d be OK with being moved to. Now he is going against it.
It’s fine that he’s doing it .But the fact that he lied makes me angry because it hurts my favorite team. Seriously if he’d just kept his stupid mouth shut I wouldn’t have a problem at all. Hell, like I’ve said here, at least twice, he has every right to do it, but I still think it’s a bit of a dick move and it annoys me as a fan of the Cubs who are being hurt by it.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
The only thing I’d add is that we don’t know what his list was. We have no idea what he said to the Cubs. We have no idea if the Cubs misunderstood him. We have no idea if it wasn’t the Cubs who tried to go the 2nd team on his list without first talking to Dempster. All we know is that the Braves were one of the teams he was WILLING to accept a trade to. That’s if the supposed list is even true. There’s any number of things here that could have happened and only one of them is that Dempster is a liar. Why, after bashing the media as we have, would we take every word they say as fact? Why would we assume that what has been reported isn’t done to put pressure on Dempster? There’s just too many possibilities here to immediately jump to liar.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
But the issue is Dempster has no leverage until the Cubs take a proposal to him then all leverage transfers to him, until that occurs the Cubs hold all of the leverage. All I know is this entire fiasco has been fucked from the beginning and that’s the last thing I would have expected out of the current front office. I’m not really sure they had anything to do with it either.
pinetarQuote Reply
@ Doogolas:
There’s still a possibility that he is doing what’s best by giving the Cubs another shot at Zach Lee or at the comp pick. Delgado is good, but he projects as a middle of the rotation guy, at best. Maybe the Cubs think they can do better. Maybe Dempster thinks the Cubs can do better. Who knows. This whole thing is a massive clusterfuck.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Just so you know, you’re on my list of three people I’ll help commit market suicide.
Ryan Dempster FoundationQuote Reply
@ mb21:
If he declines this trade he’s a liar regardless of the list though. Because he publicly stated he’d do what is best for the Cubs organization. Accepting this trade is exactly that.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ pinetar:
The Cubs have taken two proposals to him, one from the Dodgers last week, and one fromt he BRaves this week. Dempster has the power now.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ GW:
I did some, but not as much as my friends did. I was also a lot dumber about baseball then. The last time I’ve been upset at a player was in 2004 when Sosa walked out on the team. It wasn’t long after that I realized it was stupid and haven’t been upset with any player since. Michael Barrett made me upset because he was a horrible defensive catcher, but that’s different. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
@ Doogolas:
Not if the Dodgers are putting Zach Lee back on the table.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Too true. Point taken.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ pinetar:
We’re looking at this differently. The person who makes the final decision about a trade is the one with leverage. The team has the leverage as far it comes to whether or not they want to trade him. Dempster can’t tell them to trade him and expect it. The Cubs could say fuck that and not trade him, but I’m talking about trades. Knowing the Cubs want to trade him, Dempster has the leverage here.
mb21Quote Reply
Mercurial Outfielder wrote:
1) That makes no sense. If he declines this trade the Dodgers have more leverage, not less. if they weren’t going to get Lee with other teams as a possibility, why in the world would they change their minds now that they aren’t?
2) Delgado projects as a middle of the road guy who could become a nice #2 starter. There’s a much, much, much, much better chance that he is a good MLB pitcher than that Zach Lee even sees the majors, much less becomes a better pitcher than him.
3) Maybe he does, but assuming he follows the news one might assume that he knows the Cubs talked pretty extensively with the Dodgers about moving him there and they didn’t make a good enough offer. The Braves made an offer they accepted, so the Cubs couldn’t do better in LA or they’d have accepted a tarde.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ mb21:
right, so my only point in this argument (i know you are in the midst of about five), is that you understand fans being upset with a player, you just think it is unenlightened, petty, and potentially harmful.
GWQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Why would they though? It doesn’t make sense for them to do that. If they did that I’d have to think they were completely insane.
EDIT: They are run by Ned though. So who knows.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Not sure the Dodgers one was an actual proposal. All I’ve heard was preliminary conversations which I’m sure they were keeping Dempster in the loop with.
pinetarQuote Reply
Mercurial Outfielder wrote:
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
the trick is curating those that pick into a similar probable value distribution as Delgado represents — and that will be really fucking hard, because Delgado is a 22-y/o starter with 20+ starts under the belt already.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
GW wrote:
Fair enough. I understand it, but I also don’t understand it if that makes any sense (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
i think its pretty damn early to pigeon hole Delgado into middle of the rotation at best.
dylanjQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
This. The fact is we have no fucking clue what the facts are. All we know is that the Braves were on *a* list, with no qualifications, and have no other clue as to what the Cubs and Dempster have communicated to one another since then.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Can we at least continue to blame the Braves for leaking this early? (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
dylanj wrote:
He’d look great as a mid-rotation guy when the other guys in the rotation are the likes of Chris Volstad, Casey Coleman, Rodrigo Lopez (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
It appears right now the Cubs might be talking to both teams. The Braves trade isn’t off so at this moment Dempster’s refusal to agree to a trade may have given them more leverage. At some point that will wear off and Dempster and the Cubs will either have to accept the Braves trade or accept they will likely have less leverage in trying to move him over the next week. Right now though, they don’t have less leverage. They might have more since Dempster could be off the market at any moment. That won’t last long though.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I agree we are standing on opposite sides of the fence. Until the Cubs agree to move him he has no leverage 😉 If they wanted to play hardball all they’d have to do is announce they were removing him off the market and they intended to keep him until the end of the year. What’s he going to do then? Nothing because he doesn’t have a say in it. If I’m the Cubs and he is flip-flopping that is exactly what I do and he can ride the rest of the year out in 5th place in the NL Central.
pinetarQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
dylanj wrote:
Both of these are things I agree with also.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Doogolas:
Wrong. With the Braves offering Delgado, the market has changed and will require and improved offer from them if they really want Dempster. You can’t deny that without contradicting your previous position that Delgado is a better return than Lee.
pinetar wrote:
Semantics.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Do we even know if it was the Braves? Any other team’s beat reporter involved with the Cubs is also the acting Cubs beat reporter these days. So in essence, Bowman was the acting Cubs beat reporter yesterday.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I agree with that. And until Dempster officially actually does something I’m not going to be upset. It’s possible that Dempster is waiting to say anything to give the Cubs an extra minute to negotiate with the Dodgers and see if you can get them to give you the shiny toy you really, really want. Which would be swell .
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ pinetar:
Agreed, at which point the Cubs have all the leverage. I’ve been assuming we’re talking about trades, as in a trade to a specific team.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Everything leaked from the Atlanta side so there’s a good chance it was the Braves but I will concede that the Cubs may just hate Paul Sullivan and decided to call Bowman instead (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I don’t think Dempster has fucked anything up, because he hasn’t declined anything. By not accepting the trade yet, he’s opened the door for other teams to offer more if they’re still interested in trading for him. I don’t see how this is a bad thing.
TheVanQuote Reply
It’s weird seeing KG say that Zach Lee is better than Delgado. He wasn’t on KG’s own list.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Bowman is MLB.com’s Braves writer, and was the first to report it, and then it showed up on the Braves MLB.com site for a bit.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Wait what? I have no idea what this means. If Dempster will NOT go to the Braves, and the only team he will go to is the Dodgers, why do they have to offer Lee?
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
True, but like the Red Sox beat writers who became the active Cubs beat writers, the Braves guys may have taken over. You never know. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
All I know is that it wasn’t the Cubs beat reporters because they don’t know shit.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Doogolas:
I’ll answer this with your own comment above:
Doogolas wrote:
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
yeah, it is, but the projections are the projections. he may fail, and he may become a #1 (however unlikely).
the distributions of the probabilities in between is what the compensatory draft picks would have to approximately recreate for the Cubs to be uninjured by Dempster’s refusal to go to Atlanta (netted of course by anything he yields in trade to the Dodgers or anyone else).
and that wouldn’t be easy. how many compensatory picks turn into kids in the majors at his age projecting to be a #3? not many.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
Jason Kendall —————> retirement
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Doogolas:
If that’s the case and I’m the Cubs I take him off the market. Good luck making the playoffs next year when he has a chance to jump into the middle of it this year. Seriously who would take L.A. over Atlanta? You’d have to chain and shackle me to get me to L.A.
pinetarQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I said those two things under entirely different premises though.
If he comes out and rejects the trade to the Braves. We’re completely screwed negotiating with the Dodgers.
If he’s just sitting on his hands and planning on accepting if the added leverage of a deal on the table doesn’t work, great. And in this situation, then the Dodgers may up the ante.
But as soon as (if) it comes out and he says no to a Braves trade outright. The Dodgers have absolutely all leverage in negotiations.
DoogolasQuote Reply
i want Delgado over a comp pick. my point was you can’t limit Delgado to a # 3. His track record is superb.
dylanjQuote Reply
@ pinetar:
It would be a reverse Sophie’s choice for me. I hate both cities (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ dylanj:
ah, right, gotcha.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
If you have 55 million it doesn’t really matter which city you work in half the time.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Phil Emery is giving a hilarious PC right now, Bears fans.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ gaius marius:
Delgado’s rest of season ZiPS and Oliver is right around 4.44. His rest of season PECOTA is 4.65. The average is about 4.5. I still think much of Delgado is projection in that he’ll get better. Of course, there’s evidence that pitchers are at their peak when they enter MLB and as they accrue innings they get worse.
If you look at his 10 year PECOTA (projections prior to the season) his best season is in 2016 at -.3 WARP.
His best Oliver projection is in 2018 at -.4 WAR.
Those multi-year forecasts were before the season so it’s safe to say they’ve improved somewhat, but as far as projections go I don’t think the Cubs got a huge win here if they complete the trade. Based on potential/upside/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, I think they come out looking pretty good.
I agree with DJ that I wouldn’t say mid rotation at best. BA did say number 2 if he reaches his ceiling so I’d probably go with that and that’s a lot of value. As you say though, there are a lot of possibilities. Penciling him in for 3 wins a year is way too high in my opinion.
mb21Quote Reply
@ dylanj:
I’m with you, but I wouldn’t say superb.
2007: 0 WARP
2008: 1.1
2009: 2.3 WARP
2010: 2.2 WARP (-3 in AA, 5.2 in A+)
2011: -.3 (combined between MLB, AA and AAA)
2012: .7
I’d say he’s been good despite being young for his level. That’s a good thing obviously.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
By the way, this is a rather remarkable season. Ridiculously awesome in a partial season in High A and unbelievably awful after his promotion. Weird.
mb21Quote Reply
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
i did nothing so scientific (dying laughing) — my reasoning was based on the fact that a normal mid-rotation guy will usually chalk up 2.5 or 3 WAR if they stay healthy.
gaius mariusQuote Reply
Mercurial Outfielder wrote:
How to make a straw man without using MO here:
http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/samhaincrafts/ss/StrawMan.htm
SVBQuote Reply
(dying laughing) SVB, well played
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ gaius marius:
I think they’re expecting a number 3 starter or 2 if all goes well. As it is right now, it’s just a lot of projection. Good trade if it happens, but I’m not penciling him in for anything just yet. I think he’ll go to AAA to finish the AAA season and then get called up.
mb21Quote Reply
Dempster told Sullivan the media blindsided him, not the Cubs.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
that makes more sense and seems a lot less silly
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Yep
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I think DJ mentioned Zach Lee and KG earlier. No idea what KG said about Lee, but I’m also not sure he’s better than Delgado even though he probably has more hype. Lee is younger and has less experience and maybe a higher ceiling, but Lee’s numbers have been pretty bad this year. Way young for his level though.
mb21Quote Reply
As of right now, the Dodgers have one of the wild cards and the Braves are a half game back.
Not that it means anything come the end of the season, but just something I noticed.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
i fully defended derrek lee’s right to excercise his NTC and got really mad that people were badmouthing him (or his decision). I liked derrek lee a lot. i am indifferent about dempster. therefore, dempster is a selfish dick for excercising his NTC.
on an semi-related note, i once listened to pat and ron talk for about 25 minutes about how 50% of the letters in bill hall’s name are “L”. they tried to come up with another name like that and the closest they came was derrek lee, who has “E” representing 44% his name.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
Oliver projects the Braves to win the East and the Dodgers to finish 6 out in the West.
mb21Quote Reply
Finding the facts in the Dempster “situation.”
Flame on! (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
SVBQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo wrote:
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
I liked this. Though I have no idea WTF Namor the Submariner is doing in the middle of the skyline nowhere close to water.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ EnricoPallazzo:
According to DylanJ about 75% of F7Jr’s letters are Z’s. But now we have to ask “John” Prapalapakesh to be sure.
SVBQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
That sucks.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
You can see the original image and others here from Ryan Dunlavey. The sci fi/comic crowd that hangs out here should have a look. My favorite is the Spy vs Spy.
SVBQuote Reply
Doog, where is that from?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Doogolas:
Is that the source in the 3rd floor of the green building in the comic above, or the one near the traffic light?
SVBQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
are you saying that comic is unrealistic?
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
CAC.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Doogolas:
?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Sounds like a bluff to me…or collusion.
TheVanQuote Reply
SVB wrote:
nice find skip. some good ones on there.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
@ EnricoPallazzo:
Correct.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Tragedy
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
It breaks my nerd heart.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Convenient timing. Garza’s definitely doing what’s best for the Cubs!
SVBQuote Reply
How bout a new fuckin thread
Suburban kidQuote Reply
New shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-dempster-trade.html
Aisle424Quote Reply