The Ryan Dempster saga seems like it has been going on longer than it took for the Ricketts to complete the transaction to acquire the Cubs, but it's all only a little over 24 hours old.
I'll see if I can sum this up as succinctly as I can, though I'm sure I will miss some salient details. As best as I can tell, it all started in earnest when Mark Bowman, the beat writer for the Braves on MLB.com (basically, the Braves' version of Carrie Muskat), tweeted out that the Braves and Cubs had come to an agreement on a deal involving Ryan Dempster and possibly Randall Delgado.
Twitter then went apeshit with speculation about whether Delgado could really be the piece coming back for a 35-year old rental player who is playing out of his ass at the moment. Various reporters start jumping in that Bowman's story is accurate, though still unclear on the Delgado part. Then Keith Law reported that a story filed to ESPN said if the deal was completed, Delgado would, indeed, be the piece coming to the Cubs. I don't know what the next level above apeshit is in the Twitter world, but that's what happened next. If Harry Caray were here, he probably would have exclaimed, "Listen to this crowd!!! They're dancing in the streets of Twitter!"
Then the wheels started coming off.
Dave Kaplan came bursting into the party and told everyone to put the champagne down because the deal was, according to a GREAT SOURCE, not done yet. People laughed and patted him on the head and continued to talk about how great this trade was for the Cubs. I started worrying that we weren't actually going to get something as good as Delgado after all, and it creeped into my mind that maybe Dempster's acceptance of the deal might not be as much of a foregone conclusion as everyone was making it out to be.
Then the Dempster Family Foundation tweeted out that there was no trade and that they had no idea what anyone was talking about. They also felt the need to enforce the fact that they had not been hacked, since it is every hacker's dream to hack into an account for the express purpose of DENYING trade rumors.
Then Dempster himself arrived to the clubhouse in Pittsburgh and very curtly told reporters he didn't want to discuss any trade rumors and he wanted to prepare to sit on the bench while Samardzija pitched against the Pirates. (He didn't really say that, he said he was preparing to play, but sitting on the bench was pretty much the extent of his involvement in the game). You could tell he was not in a good mood because he didn't do a Harry Caray impression, use a whoopie cushion or anything.
Then when Sveum addressed the media, he didn't want to give any validity to trade rumors from The Twitter and The Facebook, as if it hadn't been an MLB.com beat writer that originally broke the story, with outlets like CBSSports, ESPN, and FOXSports following right behind with verifications.
Now we were starting to get depressed, but we remained hopeful that the deal would get concluded. After all, the Yankees managed a trade for Ichiro (who also had 10/5 rights) without any hassles, so it should all work out for the best, right? RIGHT?!
Then this morning, Jerry Crasnick reported that Dempster was upset that the news broke on the interwebz before he had been told about it and had proper time to work up the perfect Harry Caray impression to hilariously discuss it with reporters. He said he felt blindsided, which is ridiculous considering the atmosphere that has been following the team pretty much since the season started. Pretty much every day, he's probably had at least one reporter ask him about places he might play or if he's heard any rumors about trades that Jed & Theo might be working on. Then suddenly he is shocked when a trade involving him actually comes up?
Typical conversation every day since pitchers and catchers reported in February:
REPORTERS: Hey Demp, hear anything on the trade market? Is this your last start for the Cubs?
DEMPSTER (puts on oversize glasses): Hey Paul, did you know that "Sullivan" backwards is "No comment?"
(Everybody laughs)
Conversation yesterday:
REPORTERS: Hey Demp, did you hear there's a trade in the works with you going to Atlanta?
DEMPSTER: (dramatically whips off oversize glasses) WHAT!!!???? (Faints)
(Everybody laughs)
Granted, it would suck to find out about something like that via Twitter (or Paul Sullivan reading a tweet), so I'll cut him a bit of a break, but that's something where you are momentarily stunned and then you compose yourself. You don't get pissy with the Cubs because they had nothing to do with how this all broke on the internet. Remember, the last story the Chicago media ever broke was publishing Steve Bartman's home address. So I'm not sure where that came from on his part.
It has also been reported that Dempster would prefer to be traded to the Dodgers, presumably to rekindle the bromance with Ted Lilly. So it seems he will not immediately accept the deal with the Braves until all efforts to work a deal with Los Angeles have proven fruitless (and even then, nothing is definite). So that opens up the possibility that the Braves could pull their offer if they want to work on trying to get a guy who actually, you know, wants to be on their team. It lowers the Cubs leverage with the Dodgers since they now know that they are Dempster's preferred destination. At the very least, it opens up the window for more deals like the Tigers/Marlins deal yesterday to eliminate potential trade partners for any of the Cubs' pitchers.
So now everyone is all kinds of pissed off at Dempster.
But here's the thing, whether we think he's too thin-skinned for being upset about how it all played out, or whether we think he's lame for potentially turning down a perfectly good spot for him to land even if it isn't his top spot, he has the right to do it. He has achieved the status where he can exercize as much power as possible to end up where he wants to be.
The fact that all of this blew up in the public's view is not his problem. The fact that the publicity has tipped the Cubs' hand and lessened the Cubs negotiating ability is not his problem. He is looking out for what is best for his family. Remember, he doesn't actually want to leave Chicago. This isn't a guy itching to get out and then complaining about the destination. If he had his way, he'd stay in Chicago and probably sign another deal in Chicago for three more years. But he understands the situation and he has opened the possibility that he could go somewhere else if it helps the team. But he didn't promise to leave. He didn't give Theo a list of teams and said, "Trade me to one of these spots." He had a ranking in his mind and the Cubs came to him with the 2nd best offer while there was still a week to go before the trade deadline.
Wouldn't you hold out a little bit to see if something could be worked out to get your top choice before packing your bags for Atlanta's shitty traffic and the tomahawk chop?
But as fans, this has been gut-wrenching because not only did we see a trade dangled before our eyes, but it was a pretty fucking good trade. I know I was shocked to see a piece coming back to Chicago with the quality of Delgado. Remember, I'm the guy who didn't think anyone would offer better than the value of a compensation pick for him. This isn't Ted Lilly and Ryan Theriot for an old, former decent prospect. This isn't Derrek Lee for a bunch of non-prospects. This was a serious deal that boosted our horribly thin young pitching talent immediately. And now it is slipping away.
So as it all falls apart, it is very easy to get angry about it. Angry at Dempster for not just accepting the trade. Angry at the Cubs for botching what should be something simple like notifying a player that a trade has been worked out. Angry at the media for sniffing around and getting the story. Angry at bloggers and twitterers for spreading around the reports like wildfire.
But there really is nobody to get angry at. The Cubs are doing their best to work out a good deal that Dempster will agree to. Dempster is open to taking his comedy bits on the road if it helps the team when he has no obligation to do so. The media is just doing what it does by trying to break a story first (and it looks like Bowman had it right from the start, so this isn't a matter of first to report trumping first to be correct). Probably the biggest villain in all of this is whoever over in Atlanta couldn't keep their yap shut when Bowman came asking questions.
Maybe the Sun-Times will publish his home address so we can send a mob after him.
And the bottom line is that no one in the public knows if any of the reporting was really based on fact, as far as I can tell, except for what Dempster said before the game yesterday.
SVBQuote Reply
I don’t know where your Google +1 button went but I’ll like/retweet/whatever this post in spirit.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Cool summary, bro.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
I’m more tired of this stupid fucking trade than I am of Dempster’s stupid fucking jokes.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
SVB wrote:
i think the story was verified by enough reporters independently that we can accept the fact that there was a trade agreed to in principle sending Dempster to Atlanta and Delgado to Chicago. Whether there was additional players involved or what the money was is unknown, but just about every credentialed baseball journalist has verified that was the crux of the deal.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Gordo says Garza will be getting an evaluation Friday.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Yeah, and while all of you jackasses were arguing about this, Sherman Hemsley died. Way to go.
uncle daveQuote Reply
I still don’t think all the hoopla hurts the Cubs leverage because he hasn’t vetoed any trades yet. If anything, the Dodgers now know that Dempster would like LA, but the Braves have the best offer on the table, but they’re not making the trade with Dempster, they’re making it with the Cubs. They can offer a bit more if they really want him. Also, the Cubs don’t need to trade him. They would like to improve their system, but it’s not going to impact them this season. Contenders that need pitching, need Dempster or someone like him, meaning the Cubs still have all the leverage.
TheVanQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
There are rumors the Braves are going to pull Delgado from the deal.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
agreed. maintaining the whole “we are all in the dark about everything” stance is really stretching it.
GWQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
yeah, that’s what central arizona college is reporting.
GWQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Yes, I also read the comments. I still think it sounds like a bluff or collusion.
TheVanQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
What could possibly be gained by colluding? The Cubs don’t have to trade Dempster, they can keep him and get picks and Dempster doesn’t mind staying here.
If it’s a bluff, it’s a dumb one. Theo and Dempster have all the power here.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ GW:
I’m not aware of anyone saying we’re in the dark about everything.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
By colluding, the Braves don’t have to give up Delgado and the Dodgers don’t have to give up Lee. By bluffing, they’re assuming that Dempster has pretty much said no to Atlanta so they bluff that they’re taking Delgado off the table in hopes that LA sends a lowball offer that the Cubs will reject, making the Braves frontrunners again…with leverage. If that’s the case, I agree the best scenario is Dempster staying a Cub.
TheVanQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
No, that makes the Braves and the Dodgers both losers on Dempster, because Theo will just pull Dempster off the table and take his picks. There is literally nothing the Braves and Dodgers can do to force a trade here. dempster doesn’t want out, and Theo doesn’t need to deal him.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Either the Braves pulled the offer or it’s still on the table. I’m sure the Braves are looking around at other options, but I’m sure they were doing that yesterday after the Cubs and Braves agreed to the trade. They’d not have been doing their job if they just called it quits and assumed a person with 10-5 rights would accept a trade.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Aisle424:
I suppose, but there are a lot of “sources” and a lot of “this reporter said” and “that reporter said” reporting. There aren’t even any details from the “sources” like “a source within the Cubs organization.” I believe the Cubs discussed trading Dempster to Atlanta, and that Atlanta discussed some prospects to return to the Cubs. Maybe hard reporting is too much to ask for these days, but some reporter tweeting that some source said something about someone is a little tough for me to get too fired up about. That’s why I didn’t join the meat of the discussion in the last thread.
Tweets will break your heart.
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
I’ve seen nothing, except Sveum’s luddite rant, that suggests anything less than a deal in principle was what was agreed to yesterday.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
FWIW the Cubs will get just one pick. It’s really fucked up. The team that might sign him loses their first round pick (top 10 picks protected, team picking in top 10 would lose 2nd round pick), but the Cubs don’t get it. Makes no sense. They’d just get a supplemental pick.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I know, that’s why taking Delgado off the table doesn’t make sense. It takes them out of the running, but they still need pitching.
TheVanQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
the storyline here has been remarkably consistent here across the board, all things considered.
GWQuote Reply
@ TheVan:
They either took their offer off the table or he’s still in the deal. You can’t take a player out of an agreed upon deal without backing out of the deal. The Braves don’t get to take Delgado out and pretend they have an offer on the table.
mb21Quote Reply
Frank Wren has confirmed that a deal was in place, but that it was made public before the Braves were aware Demspter wanted some time to make the choice.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ GW:
Tom Hart from the AJC is tweeting comments from Wren right now that a deal was in place and the leak fucked it up.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I think GW is referring to my comment at the start of this thread@ SVB:, which I expanded on here@ SVB:.
I think Crasnick, Stark, and Levine, are generally pretty good, but the reporting looks a lot like the three of them sitting in a room saying, “I heard this.” Now the reporting, such as Heyman on CBS, who I think is hacktastic, is debating whether there even was a second choice provided to the Cubs by Dempster. If that’s really the case, that Atlanta was never on Dempster’s list, then that pretty much leads us back to Bowman as the original trumpet of a leak from someone who was probably not in the loop.
I think Twitter makes it too easy for reporters to be too careless and put too much innuendo out there, in an effort to get the scoop.
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
Well now the Braves GM has confirmed all that held this deal up is/was Dempster’s approval. So all those guys appear to have been right. Being skeptical at this point is just ignoring overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ SVB:
i don’t see how you can possibly maintain this stance.
GWQuote Reply
And If Dempster had not given the Cubs some intimation he would approve a trade to ATL, why would Theo have gone to the trouble of setting up a deal, knowing Dempster had 10-5 rights? Furthermore, Dempster confirmed himself today that he was kept in the loop by the Cubs’ FO during all the trade negotiations with ATL.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Has he confirmed that Delgado was part of it?
SVBQuote Reply
The Braves’ GM has confirmed a deal was in place, and Dempster has confirmed the Cubs kept him in the loop. It’s irrational to continue to deny that (1) a deal was in place and (2) that Dempster hadn’t given Theo enough confidence that he would go to ATL that Theo negotiated a deal with ATL
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ SVB:
He did not deny any part of the reported deal according to Hart. No one from the Braves has ever denied Delgado was part of it. This shit is getting X-Files, dude.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Wren was on some show called Braves Live giving those comments, so I’d imagine some video or audio of them should show up soon.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
@ GW:
So I can’t maintain this stance now–now that there are attributed comments from someone in the know. As long as everything is anonymous and the only quotes on the board (Sveum, Randy Bush, and Dempster) said there was no deal, then for me there is no reason to be any less skeptical of the twitterati than I would be of Sveum’s comments.
I just like to have more proof before I get all wound up one way or other about something that may or may not have been happening.
SVBQuote Reply
Mercurial Outfielder wrote:
I don’t know that I agree with this. GMs do negotiate trades with teams without players approval. It’s often what leads to players declining trades.
mb21Quote Reply
Rosenthal does not think the Rangers will pursue either Dempster or Garza.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
If Dempster has 10-5 rights and wasn’t sure that he wanted to go to ATL, then why, if the Cubs were keeping him in the loop, would he let Theo continue to negotiate a trade there?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
SVB wrote:
I’m not going to get wound up either way. I don’t really care if there was a deal in place. A trade hasn’t happened and that’s all I care about. What happened, how it broke down and all that. Don’t care.
mb21Quote Reply
Wren did not seem pleased this got out. I’m guessing someone in the ATL FO is putting their things in a printer paper box about right now.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Can Dempster stop Theo from negotiating a trade? I’m just saying that players decline trades. Either this happens because a lot of players suddenly change their mind or because GMs are negotiating trades before they notify the players.
As for Dempster, what did he say? What does being kept in the loop even mean? It doesn’t mean Dempster ever told them he’d accept a trade. And even if he did, he still has final say. Maybe Dempster wanted an extension. I don’t know.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I would hope so. The Cubs have done a great job at preventing leaks. If I’m Wren I’m finding out who did this and he’s gone.
mb21Quote Reply
Vacated
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Dempster told Gordo he never demanded an extension as a condition of being dealt.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Now I’m really confused. If Dempster said the Cubs kept him in the loop, then Crasnick’s reporting about Dempster being upset to find out via Twitter was wrong. Clearly Stark’s tweet about how the trade would be resolved shortly was wrong too (unless he meant “dropped”). So some of the Tweet-reporting was accurate, and some wasn’t. That doesn’t persuade me to put more stock in Tweet-reporting.
I think Josh’s comic pretty much nailed it. (dying laughing)
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
Dempster said himself today that he wasn’t blindsided by the team, but by the media. I have no idea what he means by that, but you’re really picking flyshit out of pepper to find something to hang your skeptic hat on.
And I say that as an avowed Humean. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I guess in OV-speak I should say, “Shut me right up.”
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYa0jpGFUeY?feature=player_detailpage&w=640&h=360%5D
By the way, I clearly don’t type as fast as GW or MO.
(dying laughing)
SVBQuote Reply
I think the upshot of this thing is that Dempster stays. I think they will ask for Lee from LA and be rebuffed, then go back to ATL who will prob now pull Delgado off the table, and Theo will just tell Dempster he’s getting a tender at the end of the year but that he’s not getting traded.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
likely charlatan jake kinlaw saying angels and rays are close on a shields/bourjos swap.
GWQuote Reply
@ GW:
Rosenthal had a rumor earlier that Angels were entering the market for SP.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Holy shit, there is fly shit in my pepper! Why didn’t anyone tell us this before? This is big news and the cover-up is even bigger news.
BubbaBiscuitQuote Reply
Wren now quoted as saying the “framework” of a deal is in place. Methinks Delgado is about to be pulled off the table. Wren isn’t going to dangle while other teams get in on the other top-of-the-line SP get snapped up.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ BubbaBiscuit:
The Paterno Family wants a real investigation.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ GW:
now confirmed by tim kurkjian. that fucker may be dishonest, but he does have some sources.
GWQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Zach Lee is being floated as a possible chip in an Aramis Ramirez or Greinke swap.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
mb21Quote Reply
If the Dodgers won’t give up Lee for Dempster I don’t think they do for Ramirez either.
Speaking of Ramirez, the guy flat out said last year he didn’t want to be traded and I don’t recall the backlash against him that I’ve seen with Dempster today.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Maybe has to do with the return, theoretical or otherwise.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I think it’s because he said he didn’t want to be traded (like Lee did), but Dempster made all that noise a couple weeks ago about understanding the trade market and being willing to do what was best for the Cubs. In effect, they are the same stance, but Dempster made a mistake by trying to play nice with the fans instead of being up front about what he really wanted. I guess part of being a Cub is being damned if you do and damned if you don’t. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Ramirez had a higher trade value than Dempster does. I think it’s because he never actually declined a trade so the fans didn’t pay attention.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I don’t know what he said, but we’ve said this many times, what athletes say to the media and fans isn’t necessarily what they’re saying behind closed doors. He still appears willing to accept a trade so what he said isn’t necessarily untrue either. As for Doog’s comments earlier about Demp saying what’s best for the team, he didn’t mean what’s best for the team in that he’d accept a trade to the Astros. He meant what’s best for the team and him. But mostly him.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
That’s probably true too, especially since any potential Ramirez trade return wasn’t leaked (at least not to my knowledge).
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Fans want these guys to be honest or they say they do, but the reality is they don’t. When Mark Prior was honest they bashed him. These guys are employees. Prior spoke the truth and he got bashed for it. The athlete has no alternative.
mb21Quote Reply
attaboy, paul. pitch your way out of chicago.
GWQuote Reply
tim hudson getting hit around in miami
GWQuote Reply
Just saw the homer by Castro…that was a shot.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Well, no shit (dying laughing) the real question is: if the Cubs can’t get Lee, then why bother dealing Dempster to LA?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Maybe they know Dempster is likely to accept the qualifying offer and don’t want to risk it…that’s the first thing that came to mind.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Yeah, obviously they can get him without including Lee. (dying laughing)
I still think there are ways the Cubs can come out ahead here. The Dodgers offered Gould for Carlos Lee and it was believed that’s what the Dodgers were willing to give up for Dempster. If the Cubs can get a little more they don’t come out any worse than they would have by acquiring Delgado. Delgado was a B+ prospect, Gould is a B prospect. Gould doesn’t have the upside that Delgado does and he’s having a down season in A+, but Dempster doesn’t have much trade value here. If they could get Gould plus Chris Reed (unlikely) that would be a fantastic deal. Reed was the Dodgers 1st round pick last year. He’s 22 and in AA and a borderline B prospect. There’s Joc Pederson who is a 20 year old CF in High A and hitting better than average. He’s a B- prospect. Gould with any of them would be very good deals for the Cubs.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
This is from someone who was thinking Garrett Gould was probably the best they could do. I think they can do Gould plus another mid-level prospect at this point.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Whatever they do, I hope they focus on young arms.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I’d try to get the best player you can, but if they’re arms that’s a bonus. I think Gould and Reed would be a huge win for this team and it’s a better trade than Delgado. I think that’s unlikely though. The Dodgers might prefer giving up Zach Lee than both of them.
mb21Quote Reply
I just noticed that deJesus had 3SB AND 5 CS. Hunh? I thought he had some baserunning skills.
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
It’s a weird year. Castro’s walk and strikeout rates are going the wrong direction. Josh Vitters has learned how to take a way to the point he could be useful. Ryan Dempster is one of best pitchers available at the deadline.
Cubs are still losing though. Some things never change.
mb21Quote Reply
@ SVB:
Nope. His career SB% is barely better than 50%.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ GW:
now claiming wandy —-> pirates
GWQuote Reply
Dierkes says Wandy ———> Buccos is close
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Zack Greinke hit a homer of Cliff Lee (who, incidentally, is losing again).
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Hard to imagine any other team having much interest in Maholm
mb21Quote Reply
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Has he won only once?
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
He’s 1-6, likely to go to 1-7. I don’t usually pay to much attention to pitcher records, but I find this fascinating.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
If Dempster is traded, Soriano becomes the longest tenured Cub. Geovany Soto made an appearance in 2005 if I recall correctly and another 10 or so games in 2006 before taking over at the end of 2007. Marmol came up in 2006 and then spent the first month of 2007 in the minors. Weird.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Yeah, I just looked at his record. Pretty good season for the most part except for wins. Very weird.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Today he gave up 12 hits, 6 runs, and 4 homers. Helped his (already outstanding) K/BB ratio, though.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ Rizzo the Rat:
the phils are definitely pitch count oriented vs. times through the order
GWQuote Reply
Great start by Maholm against his former team.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ GW:
Aren’t most teams more pitch count oriented? It seems to me that most pitchers just don’t go over a certain number of pitches regardless of how many times they’ve been through the order. I’d love it if there was a team who just didn’t let their non-ace starters face the lineup the 4th time. Even the 3rd time is questionable for the back of the rotation guys.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Rizzo the Rat:
PIrates announcer just said that no Cubs left handed pitcher since 1918 has had 6 starts in a row in which he went at least 6 innings and allowed 1 or fewer runs.
mb21Quote Reply
Aramis brought his numbers up to .282/.350/.483. Of course, it’s his fault the Brewers are out of it because he got off to a slow start. He’s just padding his stat sheet now.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ mb21:
yes
GWQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Maholm being the one to do it for the first time since 1918
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
Can I blame Baseball Prospectus and Pitcher Abuse Points?
mb21Quote Reply
just frustrating to see three homers in five batters from one of your fantasy players
GWQuote Reply
@ mb21:
yes
GWQuote Reply
according to mlbtr, pirates have acquired Wandy
mb21Quote Reply
will be interesting to see how much $ goes along with wandy. he’s still owed around $30M
GWQuote Reply
@ GW:
Good because I was going to do it anyway. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
I’m interested to see what the Astros get for Wandy as well as the money sent. I’m going to look more closely at this trade tomorrow when more details are available.
mb21Quote Reply
I’ve seen of the best starts I’ve ever seen out of this Cubs staff. So strange.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Twitter says Greinke is the first pitcher to homer off Cliff Lee.
And here’s the video: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=23304967&c_id=mil&partnerId=aw-8580522438967104726-996
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Teams went from being stubborn about leaving pitchers in until their arms fell off to being stubborn about following a pitch count. At some point teams will realize it’s not about the number of pitches, but about the times through the order. Shit, I was saying this to gaius marius back in 2005. I don’t really care about pitch counts, but you’d limit them to a respectable number by seeing to it that only your ace even gets into the lineup the 4th time. Even then, it better be a game that’s well in hand. If it’s close, get a reliever in. Unless the ace is someone like Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens. Then I might be more inclined to manage by pitch count, but those caliber of pitchers aren’t that common.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Remeber those back to back 1 hitters by Lieber and Wood? Pretty sure it was 2001 and it might have come against the Dodgers.
mb21Quote Reply
Bad Marmol is back, it seems.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Wood’s 1 hitter was against MIlwaukee and Lieber’s against the Reds. back to back days in 2001.
mb21Quote Reply
Morosi says Robbie Grossman to Astros for Wandy, no word about $$
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
interesting. he’s a friend of a friend
GWQuote Reply
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Shut you right up.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Grossman has a very good eye (OBP more than 100 points higher than average), didn’t hit for much power early on, but has hit 20 home runs the last 2 seasons. CF who is 22 who can get on base and if he continues to develop power looks to be a interesting piece for the Astros.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I didn’t see a lot of baseball in 2001. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I like that Castro ran around the bases on his HR.
SVBQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Hibernation due to dissertation?
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
Not exactly. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
SVB wrote:
I’m guessing
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
Except that most of the season was over by then….
SVBQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Marines?
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Yeah, pretty much
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Wow, Cliff Lee won’t lose after all (won’t win, either). Helluva comeback by Philly.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
What happened to Concepticon? Is he injured? He hasn’t pitched since June 28th.
MuckerQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I assumed academics from the conversation we had last week on how we disabuse students of their notions that crappy work will get them B’s, or A’s.
SVBQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ SVB:
Oh, I’m an academic now, but I was not then. It’s been a long strange trip. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
vogue? (dying laughing)
GWQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
yet you keep truckin, like the do-dah man.
mb21Quote Reply
@ GW:
D-Vog
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Seems to me that the Astros got three pretty good prospects for Wandy. Based on WHIP, K/9, BB/9, and HR/9 the pitchers are decent.
Wonder if this resets the value for Garza. They have very similar numbers including sporting an 11.5 WAR each, except Wandy is a lefty, has one more year of experience, and is 4 years older.
SVBQuote Reply
@ GW:
That’s his Cuey nickname
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
to paraphrase tito, “he’s not the french model of anything”
GWQuote Reply
@ SVB:
I took just a brief look at the prospects. The CF looked pretty decent, one guy was like 25, right? I’ll look closer tomorrow.
Based on what the Astros have done recently it seems to me they’re loading up on quanitity, which is about what they could expect given the talent they’re dealing. Luhnow is becoming a very easy GM to deal with and he’s cleaning house in Houston. They have a very smart front office and them leaving the NL is probably a good thing for the Cubs.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Well if I’m ever in Kansas, I’ll buy you a beer off the list in the OV Forum, and maybe you’ll fill me in. (But I’d prefer if you leave the ruby slippers at home.)
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
It certainly can’t hurt Garza’s market.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ mb21:
grossman is pretty highly regarded. supposed to have good speed. drafted out of high school, late first rounder, got a million bucks to sign (which was right around slot)
GWQuote Reply
Pitchers Houston got in Wandy trade.
@ mb21:
Rudy Owens is a 24 yo repeating AAA this year.
Career WHIP1.141 H/9=8.5 HR/9=0.7 BB/9=1.8 K/9=7.1
Colton Cain is 21 at A+ level. His #s are similar to Owens, but H/9 is 1 lower while BB/9 is 1 higher.
SVBQuote Reply
Adam Dunn now has 30 homers.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ SVB:
Lot further west than Kansas now.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Wesley Wright is now the longest tenured Astro (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
cordero blows his first save opp in houston. luhnow really knows how to tank
GWQuote Reply
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Still on pace for 250 K, too. I want a 50 HR, 250 K, 100 BB season from him so bad I can taste it
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Mercurial Outfielder wrote:
This is the part I don’t feel has gotten a sufficient explanation.
GBTSQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I want to see him face off against Aroldis Chapman (I’m pretty sure I know how that would end, but it would be fun to see).
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Aroldis got 3 more strikeouts today. He’s averaging 17 per 9 innings.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
And likely never will. No way that story can be told without someone looking like a gigantic asshole.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Soler ——–> HR
BerseliusQuote Reply
So Dempster died in a fire, thus ending speculation, I dreamed.
joshQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Well, crap, I guess I mis-remembered that too. Sorry. I knew I shouldn’t have volunteered to wear that hot dog suit!
SVBQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
bleh
GWQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Allen Webster:
Two half-seasons in AA ball:
179.2 IP 1.486 Whip 9.8 H/9 0.4 HR/9 3.6 BB/9 7.9 K/9 4.56 ERA
Pre-2012 was BP #95 prospect.
SVBQuote Reply
@ SVB:
WTF? Why would the Cubs want this guy?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ SVB:
I note that his BB/9 is amazingly consistent across levels, sample size etc.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=webste001car
Only his age 22 season, K went up, ERA went down…that’s about all I could tell based on the stats here.
So…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
hittable, mediocre control, repeating the aa level.
GWQuote Reply
somebody with a twitter please tell account tell charlatan jake kinlaw that he was beaten on the wandy story by tom singer and he obviously fabricated the “dempster has consented” tweet. he’s starting to bug me.
GWQuote Reply
@ GW:
Looks that way. Fixable?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
AZL couldn’t hold Vogelbach. 2-4 with a double in his 2012 Boise debut.
Chet MastersonQuote Reply
I’m just gonna vomit all my thoughts on this as a hello and first post to the site. If I hit anybody’s shoes, I’m sorry.
I’m getting tired of the “He has a right to do it” line. That’s not an argument, it’s a tautology. All that says is that it’s in the CBA, which everyone knows because we’re having this discussion, Dempster isn’t in a Braves hat, and I don’t have a Delgado tat on my ass.The question isn’t “does he have the right,” but “is it right” for a guy to give a list of teams he’d consider going to and then back away from going to his #2 team on the list. It’s borderline and will probably depend on the specifics once we get past all the BS. On one hand, you have him saying he’d consider these teams, not an ironclad guarantee. On the other hand, it’s his #2 team, not #5 or #6, how honest was he being with us (and himself). Plus him saying the Cubs are gonna do what’s best for them, and I’m gonna do what’s best for me goes against his saying all along that he was trying to help the team. Add to that the fact he’s saying he’ll take a week to think about it when Atlanta could move on tomorrow, and that he’s killing our leverage with the Dodgers, and it doesn’t seem like he’s looking out for the team at all. I’m doing my damndest to give him the benefit of the doubt till we learn the facts, since the media is so full of crap most of the time, but it’s getting harder and harder.
CarneHarrisQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Beats me. He doesn’t look all that special. Maybe they are enamored with the #95 prospect ranking from BP. Or maybe both he and Theo were born on Feb 10.
I should note that the two half-seasons at AA were last half of last year and first half of this year.
Thanks RC for putting up the link. I should have done that.Rice Cube wrote:
SVBQuote Reply
Bruce Miles echoes some themes discussed here yesterday regarding Dempster.
http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20120724/sports/707249648/
SVBQuote Reply
Ramirez ———–> Dodgers.
Make that Hanley, though.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
“The Chicago Cubs are going to do what’s best for the Cubs,” Dempster said. “I have a chance to do what’s best for me. And I’m going to try and do that.”
From CSN.
mb21 wrote:
For the record, I am totally behind you on this much. I wouldn’t have expected him to go to the Astros. But from the way he’s talked this entire time I expected that if we sent him to a contender he’d be OK with it and help us out. Because that is pretty much what he said. I didn’t think he’d just be, essentially, entirely selfish.
DoogolasQuote Reply
@ Smokestack Lightning:
I wonder if that means the Dodgers are out on Dempster. Probably not completely.
joshQuote Reply
Second day in a row that the ESPN top performer was a Cubs pitcher.
Rizzo the RatQuote Reply
Hamels —————> 6/144 extension
The Phillies really like giving people money.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
And A-Rod ————————> DL (6-8 wks)
King Felix liked hitting Yankees last night…
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ CarneHarris:
Is it right for Dempster to do it? Absolutely. He’s paid to pitch, for the Cubs, and he’s done that. As far as I’m concerned, he doesn’t have any obligation to do anything more than show up every 5 days and take the hill. He has no obligation whatsoever to help his team get a better trade for the sake of the team.
It’s not his job to look out for the best interest of the team, that would be Theo and Hoyer.
EdwinQuote Reply
@ Edwin:
Agreed. Dempster did his job. Now it’s the Cubs turn to do their job within the framework of Dempster’s NTC.
mb21Quote Reply
Josh Vitters tied his career high in non-intentional walks in a season last night.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
The Phils say they aren’t going to trade Lee or Halladay, but it seems to me that trading one of them and having a rotation that starts with Hamels, Lee/Halladay (whoever stays), and Worley is a good start. The rest of the team is old, old, old. Certainly Lee or Halladay would return a package of ML-ready players, maybe Justin Upton. I don’t see how they plug all their holes through FA in the off season.
SVBQuote Reply
Edwin wrote:
It’s not about his right to do it. If the only trade he would accept was to the Dodgers, he should explain that to Thoyer. Not lead them along to think he would go to the Braves. It’s a waste of time for Thoyer which during these last two weeks is extremely valuable.
It’s not acceptable to tell your employer you will do something and reneg, regardless if it is your right. I just don’t get how you can side so much with Dempster because it’s “his right”.
jtsunamiQuote Reply
jtsunami wrote:
I totally agree. It would be like your wife agreeing to marry you then decides to not show up to the church.
pinetarQuote Reply
new shit up
dylanjQuote Reply
@ SVB:
Yeah, one has to think they are over a barrel money-wise.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ jtsunami:
I don’t think we have enough information to make that kind of judgment. We don’t how Theo and Jed addressed trade talk with Dempster, and we don’t know how Dempster addressed his thoughts on trades.
Did he lead the front office along? I don’t think so, but I really don’t know. He could have given a list ranking his top choices, or he could have given a list with the teams he’d consider. This could have been “any of these teams are no problem” or it could have been “these are the only teams I might consider”. I never heard Dempster say, at any time, that “I’ll accept a trade to Atlanta no matter what”. Maybe he changed his mind. Maybe his wife talked to him and really hates Atlanta, or his daughter asked him not to leave her for 3 months. Whatever his reasons are, they’re his, and they’re pretty damn important to him, which is all I need to know.
You’re making strong claims against Dempster based on…what? Twitter feeds, blogs, and newspaper accounts from “Sources”? How much do you really know about what is going on? I side with Dempster because he’s a man making a decision, and I have no right to criticize him, especially when I know jack shit about what really happened and what is really going on between Dempster and Thoyer, and between Dempster and his family.
EdwinQuote Reply
Edwin wrote:
With that reasoning, he could have told the Cubs, “Hey, I want to pitch for the Braves. Get me a deal with the Braves! Braves Braves Braves!” Then they go out and work out a deal and he says, “I’m not going to the Braves.” Is it right for him to do that because he’s paid to pitch and shows up every 5 days. Hell no.
I’m reserving judgment till the facts come out but if that part of it turns out to be true, it’s disappointing.
CarneHarrisQuote Reply
Argh, sorry. Edwin actually wrote this. I don’t know what he writes in his free time.
CarneHarrisQuote Reply