Figured this was worthy of discussing.
If we don't have the ability to generate revenue in our outfield, we will have to take a look at moving. There is no question. — Tom Ricketts
Discuss
By the way, I was going to add an image of Tom Ricketts, but it turns out we have never actually uploaded one. At least not that I could find.
Don’t tell us what to do.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
I’m fine with him making this threat, empty as it is, but like I said in the last thread, I don’t think it would have been smart for him to lead negotiations with it. Now that they have gotten over a few hurdles, anyway, he can say this all day long.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
I thought there was already a plan in place, what roadblocks are there now?
Also I thought this threat has been out there for a while now. I guess he never said it directly though.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ mikeakaleroy:
You could be right. I don’t know. I’d have opened my initial press conference with how much I love the team and then I’d spend 15 minutes talking about the need to upgrade the facilities. Or else.
The threat would be taken more seriously at that point and I wouldn’t give a shit what the neighborhood, the fans or the city thought. That’s just me though.
dmick89Quote Reply
@ WaLi:
From everything I’ve read, the initial groundwork is in place, but now the city, neighborhood, historical society, Obama, and everyone else has to officially sign off on it.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ dmick89:
And I certainly could be wrong too, but to me that makes it seem like he’s got one foot out the door already, and isn’t entering negotiations in good faith.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ mikeakaleroy:
Thanks, Obama…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mikeakaleroy:
My point of view, and naturally I could be wrong…
I think Ricketts entered his tenure as owner knowing full well who he had to deal with and tried the olive branch approach. He wanted to be a good neighbor, and still does because the OF signs being proposed are minimally obstructive based on what I can see from the renderings. If the rooftops are being dicks, can you really blame him for saying, “Y’know, fuck you guys, I’m out”?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
No, and I agree with that. What I’m saying is that he had to start with the nicey nice approach and couldn’t start day one by saying “Or Else.”
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ dmick89:
Well, but that’s assuming he has had some master plan or wanted to play hardball from the start. He may genuinely not want to move, but be forced into it by an unwavering set of property owners, or an intractable city council. He may genuinely thought that they could reach an amicable agreement without resorting to threats.
joshQuote Reply
This whole discussion may be moot as well, because while he finally verbalized this threat, it’s been implied since the beginning of this whole charlie-foxtrot anyway.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
@ josh:
I can see that. But Ricketts has just about everyone on his side. So I doubt he’s going to have to move and I’d be surprised if this didn’t happen within a month, barring a lawsuit or other rooftop shenanigan.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Superfriends?
SVBQuote Reply
Not everyone has a master plan, even rich dudes.
joshQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
A majority won’t necessarily be enough, it depends on who is in office and if they think this issue alone could sway the election. It also depends on courts (as my boss once said, corporations speak through their lawyers). I think it’s rarely as simple as “most people are cool with it.” Ask those same most people if they’re still cool with it if it means the city has to pitch in with tax breaks or outright funding (drawing money away from city upkeep and schools) and suddenly it may not be so cut and dried.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
The reason most people are still cool with it is because the Cubs said they’d generate revenue for the city without the city actually having to pay for anything. Who knows if Ricketts is telling the truth about that one, but that’s the plan as outlined so far.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’m not sure Ricketts had a master plan in place when he took over. He did come in and almost immediately started talking about moving the Spring Training facilities to Florida and the fanbase went apeshit. So even if he had orginally thought about mentioning the possibility of moving, that little experience told him to shut the hell up about it and try to play nice.
One problem is that he aligned himself with a weasel like Crane who had no goodwill built up in the neighborhood as a result of his years as a tribune suit who spent the last few years of their tenure basically in a very tense cease-fire with the rooftops.
So the Cubs have misplayed some of this, but they are also painted into a corner by circumstance as well. The economy sucking helped nothing. The team sucking helped nothing.
But at this point, they have no choice but to verbalize the reality that Wrigley has a finite amount of time left as a viable baseball stadium. If they can’t get added revenue, there is no point in renovating the baseball facilities and if they can’t do that, they are at a competitive disadvantage and they are doomed to failure. Also, the stadium is literally falling apart and I’m not using “literally” in the sense that people use it today just as an intensifier of my message. There is literally concrete falling off of the place. It’s a ticking time bomb for public safety.
if this shit doesn’t get done, and soon, then all arguments about how ridiculous it is to move have to be thrown out because it will be their only choice.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Every owner says that. That’s the owner mantra. Does it hold up to scrutiny? Is Baseball by the Numbers, it didn’t, because the city’s method of taking their cut was taxes, and tax breaks are frequently part of the package city’s offer for new stadiums. People who go to games tend spend their money at the ballpark, so the team keeps most of it.
joshQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
I literally agree with you.
EdwinQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
Exactly.
@ Rice Cube:
People are on board at least partly because of the narrative in blogs and media of their attempts being harmless to the neighborhood and virtually guaranteed to make everyone magically rich. We don’t often hear the legit arguments on the other side, and we never see journalists making true attempts to unearth the costs and benefits to give us a fair ability to judge.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
Righto, that’s why I can only tell you what the plan is as outlined so far. I don’t think it’s Loria-level evil, but it is likely not as utopian as Ricketts is making it sound.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
On one hand, I think Ricketts has played his hand pretty nicely. The fanbase that’s in the know (or cares to research it) can’t possible blame him now, because he’s been strongarmed at every single turn he’s taken so far. Ricketts has made a reasonable case, bent quite a bit (especially considering the Grade-A bullshit deals other clubs have given their cities), and has been met with nothing. Unfortunately, only 1-3% care enough to do even a surface treatment of the issue, and those who don’t will violently oppose this idea.
As for me, burn the fucker down. I love the Cubs, and I like Wrigley Field, but I can tell you what I’m not married to: the “Cubs atmosphere.” Shitty overpriced bars, horrific parking, bullshit restrictions that no other team has, a crappy drive, and frat fans as far as the eye can see. Build another park in Naperville or something, give it the “Wrigley feel”, and tell Alderman Tom Tunney to go screw himself. The second the Cubs break ground on a new site is the second Tom Tunney never gets elected again.
MylesQuote Reply
I don’t think these remodeling plans are aggressive enough. With the amount of cement falling off the ceilings and walls, the age of park, the new construction technologies that have been developed in the last, say 100 years, the place needs a major upgrade beyond an office building and a hotel.
They should take off the top deck and start over. Save whatever facade you can, but you can rebuild it to look the same if you want. This in addition to the options for food, bathrooms, etc. etc. already discussed. Tiger stadium was beloved. But it was dump. Years of so so maintenance put it in bad shape and when it came time to think about fixing it, it was impossible. No loss though, maybe the only place in baseball that had worse sight lines than Wrigley, after the cookie cutters left.
The goal should be to make the title of this blog as antique in the near future as the park is now.
But if this current round of stuff makes it possible for Ricketts to do the next round in 10 years, I’m OK with that, as long as no kids get squished by falling cement.
SVBQuote Reply
Aisle424 wrote:
gbts22Quote Reply
@ SVB:
@ Myles:
Yeah, I really don’t give a shit about Wrigley. Maybe because I didn’t grow up in Chicago or something. I’m there to see the game. Convenience (close to motels, parking, etc) are really the only things I care about. Wrigley gets an F in all areas. It’s annoying. I don’t hate it, but I’m really indifferent about it. Build a new stadium.
joshQuote Reply
I like the location only because I live in the city and public transit takes me there very conveniently.
It’s all about me.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
They can build another train, RC. There are always more trains. *looks off into the horizon.*
Sorry about that, I didn’t sleep much last night.
joshQuote Reply
josh wrote:
I grew up in NW Indiana, 50 minutes from the stadium on a fantastic day (usually 1hr 15min), and I know the area pretty well. That being said, I wish I didn’t know the area that well, because usually it was like “motherFUCKER I can’t find any parking that isn’t $40 in an shady lot, or $20 in a shadier, far away lot”. I used to pay $5 to park in a lot that was literally a mile and a half away (the walk was enjoyable, though), but even that doesn’t always work unless you get there fairly early (because a ton of people are there really early to drink $9 Old Styles at the Cubbie Bear). It got to the point where I just said “fuck it,” and took the South Shore to the Red Line. It’s not cheaper, but it’s less frustrating.
I agree with you, mostly. I do enjoy the community when I’m there. However, it’s not my primary concern. Games are fun to attend and enjoyable almost anywhere. Lots of people excited for a ballgame, I get it. Give me some amenities, even if it’s just a place to park. It’s freaking Chicago, 2 million people live there. How is “allowing people to visit” not on your list of priorities? Why do I still have to pee in a troth and look up when I’m using our ramps for falling concrete? Why is there a concrete pillar obstructing my view of left field? Why are the only TVs in the stadium from 1989, encased in metal wiring, burnt out 10 years ago? Why can’t I find out how fast this guy is throwing unless I’m in 2 or 3 parts of the park? Why is my favorite team so shitty all the time?
MylesQuote Reply
@ josh:
If they have to move to Naperville, I’d have to Metra 😛
Rice CubeQuote Reply
WaLiQuote Reply
I often find myself at Wrigley thinking, “Hmm, this is a really patient hitter. I wonder what his OBP is?”
*Looks to the 6×10 digital portion of the scoreboard*
“Oh, he had a 3-double game on June 22nd. That’s all I get to know about him. Cool.”
GBTSQuote Reply
@ Myles:
FWIW, I almost always did the DeVry lot and thought it was cheap and convenient. Plus, part of the new deal is that the Cubs will pay for remote parking, so it will be completely free.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Berselius wrote:
Yeah, I do the DeVry lot everytime I can now, but not even that runs for every game. It’s only weekends and nights, which is approximately 40-50% of all games.
MylesQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
There’s these things called smartphones. They aren’t that expensive anymore.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Myles wrote:
One question at a time, Chester.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Myles wrote:
It’s actually 57 of the 82 games this year.
/Nights and Weekends Combo’d
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ gbts22:
Doh! Stole your same joke.
WaLiQuote Reply
I think the renovation rendering here looks great. Video board fits in nicely.
EDIT: I can’t figure out how to upload pictures apparently. (dying laughing)
PFDQuote Reply
Aisle424 wrote:
When have I ever let facts get in the way of my argument
MylesQuote Reply
@ Myles:
And also: DEAR GOD LET THIS BE RAINWATER I’M SITTING IN AND NOT RONNIE WOO-WOO PISS.
joshQuote Reply
josh wrote:
I wonder WOO if Ronnie WOO would follow WOO this team WOO to Rosemont WOO?
MylesQuote Reply
@ Myles:
He supposedly lives in Schaumburg so it would be less of a commute for him.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ Aisle424:
I thought he lived in Rogers Park.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid
Yeah, that’s easier.
GBTSQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
I prefer to be control my own information flow.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
They should move to Champaign. You gents can crash in my garage.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
Garage? Gee, thanks for the hospitality. Dick.
mikeakaleroyQuote Reply
Aisle424 wrote:
Suburban kid wrote:
wait that guy’s seriously not homeless? i definitely thought he was homeless.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
I was under the impression there were like 4 Ronnie Woo-Woos.
GBTSQuote Reply
josh wrote:
Then where would you sleep?
GBTSQuote Reply
@ EnricoPallazzo:
I think he has been homeless. But come to think of it, the info I’m remembering is from a really old article. He could have been evicted from several hovels since then.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
josh wrote:
Hey fellas, a garage! Well ooh la di da, Mr. French Man. It’s a car hole.
BerseliusQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo wrote:
I may be wrong about Schaumburg. Maybe he had a girlfriend there or something. He has some time to Schaumburg if my memory serves me right (it may not). Last I knew, he was not homeless. Though I think he may have been at some point.
Aisle424Quote Reply
#Cubs lineup vs. @Padres 5/1: DeJesus CF, Borbon LF, Valbuena 3B, Rizzo 1B, Castro SS, Schierholtz RF, Navarro C, Barney 2B, Feldman P
Vs. Cashner.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Aisle424 wrote:
He also smells bad and “accidentally” groped the butt of a female friend I attended a game with. She ironically wanted his picture because she is a White Sox fan.
MylesQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
Cubs are calling it a “day off” for Soriano, but it comes immediately after he got lifted in a double-switch last night. Seems awfully coincidental, but that’s their story and they’re sticking to it.
Also… Luis Valbuena is batting 3rd. Let that sink in for a moment.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Aisle424 wrote:
Also… Luis Valbuena is batting 3rd. Let that sink in for a moment.
Jed’s not fucking around anymore. He wants that pick.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Myles wrote:
I’ve been saying this for almost a decade. Wrigley Field is like the movie theater where I grew up. It was a small Iowa town and the place had been around for a long time. The amenities sucked and concessions were horrible. I liked the place and have good memories of it, but there hasn’t been a theater I’ve gone to since I moved away that wasn’t more enjoyable to watch a movie.
My limit of 2 movie-related analogies per day is complete. You’re welcome.
dmick89Quote Reply
I guess Sveum wants guys up top that he can platoon out later? *shrug*
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ dmick89:
I still really like Wrigley field because I can navigate it while keeping the bullshit nonsense to a minimum. I have a couple of “secret” paths through the stadium to get in and out with as little hassle as possible. I sit almost exclusively in the Upper Deck Box, which IMO, are the best views of the field and the best seats in the majors. Seriously. Harry Pav and I were talking last night about how no other upper deck in the majors is as close to the action as Wrigley.
I walk to the park, or for the few day games I have a couple of places just west of Southport where I can usually find street parking.
I’ve yet to have ballpark food anywhere that was “amazing.” It’s all mass produced so the quality is never great, so at some point, I just want a fucking hot dog and it’s pretty hard to fuck up a hot dog. So not even that bothers me.
My need for Wrigley to be renovated is more so I can stop hearing people bitch about what a shit hole it is, for the players to have some decent facilities, and for concrete to not fall on my head.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Also, I want the team to have the added revenue streams so they can win in my lifetime.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Yeah, this. I admit I was pleased when I saw those architect cross sections and there were still obstructed views.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Matt Garza @ Tennessee: 2.2 IP, 1 H, 2 BB, 1 R, 0 K and 17 defensive misplays (just a guess)
dmick89Quote Reply
@ dmick89:
fake “die hard”
Suburban kidQuote Reply
ESPN guy questions your blog’s value:
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/16550/obstructed-views-worth-it
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
He’s going to have to get in line.
Aisle424Quote Reply
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/braves/2013/04/29/atlanta-braves-evan-gattis-improbable-path-to-majors/2122585/?morestories=obnetwork
BerseliusQuote Reply
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
A Senator wrote that.
GBTSQuote Reply
GBTS wrote:
dmick89Quote Reply
Congress also wrote this one:
Suburban kidQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/minor-leagues/journeymen-of-tomorrow-minor-league-leaders.html
dmick89Quote Reply
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