Every year the Cubs struggle the masses come out and say the Cubs should play the kids. It happens every single time. It happens when a veteran is struggling. It’s happened a lot as the 2011 season has progressed. Who exaclty are the kids on the Cubs?
Generally speaking, we refer to kids as being younger than 18. Often times it’s reserved for children even younger than that. Once a person reaches the teenage years, they are often referred to as teenagers. A teenager hates to be called a kid and we tend to show them some respect and refer to them as either a young adult or simply a teenager.
Think about how you use the word. If I hear someone say “the kids down the block were playing baseball,” I’m picturing young kids. Maybe a few teenagers, but mostly kids who have not reached that age yet. Perhaps that is just me, but the families I have known rarely refer to children over the age of 12 or 13 as kids. If they do, it’s in the general sense. “I have to get the kids to school by 8 am.”
“When you were a kid what did you want to grow up to be?” At what age are you thinking of. Are you thinking of your senior year in high school or when you were just a little kid and dreaming about being an all-star 2nd baseman one day? I remember a time at my house with a buddy of mine and we were talking about going to law school together at the University of Iowa. I was 6 or 7 years old. A couple years later all I wanted to be when I grew up was a star baseball player. We tend to think of ourselves as grown up long before we actually are.
By the time I was 15 I knew playing professional baseball was out, the only interest I had in the law was avoiding it and much of my attention was focused on the girls lucky enough to catch my eye. I sure as hell didn’t see myself as a kid. I was about ready to get my driver’s license, a job, and eventually my own car. I would officially become an adult, at least I thought, when I got those things. Anyone called me a kid and I was sure to tell them that I’m far too mature to be called a kid.
In real life you rarely hear a person who is 18 or older referred to as a kid. Usually when it’s done it’s by some adult who thinks referring to them as kids gives them more power. But in sports, these athletes are regularly referred to as kids. I’ve done it myself. Starlin Castro is just a kid. It’s true in some way, but mostly it’s just bullshit. I do have a tendency to refer to the younger athletes in baseball as kids. Once they get to 25 though, no way. Just because a player is in the minor leagues without any big league experience doesn’t mean he’s a kid.
Some people don’t really understand this. This time of the year it’s time Quade plays the kids according to them. And they’re searching for any answer as to why he wouldn’t. For example, in Levine’s chat today there’s this (h/t to RC).
Jason: I understand the Quade is trying to win as many games as possible but doesnt the fact thathe didnt play the “kids” as much as he should kind of hint that even he knows his days are number? If he felt like he was going to be back he wouldnt he want to see who can play?
Bruce Levine: That’s a possibility. I think you’re right about that. Also there is no direction in the organization for Quade. There is no top baseball guy telling him what the plan is for next year. When you’re out there on an island like Quade is, you just try to win every game.
My first thought was this: who the hell are these kids? I start going through the roster in my head. Starlin Castro is still young. He’s playing every day. DJ LeMahieu is 22 and not getting regular playing time. If you do play him, you have to sit Darwin Barney who would then be a kid not getting playing time according to these people.
I keep thinking about the roster (the 40-man roster specifically). Welington Castillo is only 24, but he’s injured. Those are the only 3 players under the age of 25. I know Campana is 25, I think Clevenger is 26 and Blake DeWitt is 25 or 26. Are we going to refer to 25 and 26 year olds as kids? Seriously? The prime of their career is maybe only a year away at the most. The fact they haven’t played much to this point suggests they probably won’t play much after that age too. Is Tyler Colvin still 25? I’m not sure. It doesn’t matter. He’s not a kid.
I know Jeff Stevens is 27 and Bryan LaHair is 28. Isn’t Geovany Soto 29? Those are all the players under the age of 30. Maybe Luis Montanez is too. He’s probably 30 since he was drafted 3rd overall way back in 2001.
So I start going through the pitchers now. I’m pretty sure Rafael Dolis is the youngest at 23. Casey Coleman is 23 or 24. Coleman is getting regular playing time. Dolis isn’t, but are we complaining about 23 year old reliever not getting much playing time? Really? I’m pretty sure Andrew Cashner, Christopher Carpenter and James Russell are all 25. There are your pitchers under the age of 25 unless I missed someone. I’m not going to waste my time and look this stuff up. It’s not worth it.
There are two guys on the roster who I can understandably be called kids: Starlin Castro and DJ LeMahieu. If you wanted to include 23 you’ve Rafael Dolis and and Casey Coleman. As I said and as every Cubs fan knows, Castro is playing every day. Coleman is in the rotation. Dolis was called up as a reliever and will naturally have to earn more playing time. Nothing wrong with that. The only possible thing Cubs fans can complain about with regards to “kids” not playing is DJ LeMahieu, but if he was playing the “young kid” Darwin Barney would not be.
If people are going to refer to 25, 26 and 28 year olds as kids, this is literally a situation a manager cannot win. There’s a reason those guys are 25, 26 and 28 and barely have any experience. It’s because they were never good enough prior to that to deserve being called up. Why would people suddenly think they would be now?
So please, let’s stop referring to the guys who are old for the minor league level they have been at as kids. They aren’t. Tony Campana is not a kid. Starlin Castro is 4 years younger than Campana. Castro will be one year away from being free agent eligible by the time he’s Campana’s current age. Are we going to refer to him as a kid at that point? Of course not.
Comments
[quote name=AndCounting]I loved the Robothal column that Theo Epstein was out as a candidate because the Rays had tied the Red Sox and there was no way he’d skip town after that. The only source was a rival GM saying Theo wouldn’t be allowed back in Boston if he left now. He then followed it up with conjecture that the Red Sox might fire him. (dying laughing)
Essentially, you can forget about Epstein being available to the Cubs. Or he might be.[/quote]Yeah, AC, those articles have amused me the last month. These guys don’t have any more of an idea than we have, but it has been funny watching these guys come up with reasons why so and so may not be available. If the Cubs offer the new guy the GM and President’s role, I find it hard to believe that any of them stick around their current job unless they also do the same thing.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I loved the Robothal column that Theo Epstein was out as a candidate because the Rays had tied the Red Sox and there was no way he’d skip town after that. The only source was a rival GM saying Theo wouldn’t be allowed back in Boston if he left now. He then followed it up with conjecture that the Red Sox might fire him. (dying laughing)
Essentially, you can forget about Epstein being available to the Cubs. Or he might be.[/quote]
Plenty of speculation as to who the new GM/Manager would be here. The best was when someone suggested that Ozzie Guillen would be a big name that the Sox would go after (dying laughing). There was also a caller that had a big hardon for JP Riccardi.
BerseliusQuote Reply
Three times yesterday I heard someone refer to Bartman circa 2003 as a kid. WTF?
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Three times yesterday I heard someone refer to Bartman circa 2003 as a kid. WTF?[/quote]I don’t get it. As I said, I’m guilty of it at times, but you’ll never hear me refer to a 25-year old as a kid. I might refer to someone 18, 19, 20 and 21 as a kid, but never anyone 23 or older. It’s just ridiculous.
mb21Quote Reply
Yeah, these guys are mostly replacements for when the real players get injured. They get a little experience now so they aren’t completely shell-shocked when they get their 5 minutes next season. And possibly to audition them as trade bait. The Cubs may have a future in the minors, but if so they are definitely hoarding it right now.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t get it. As I said, I’m guilty of it at times, but you’ll never hear me refer to a 25-year old as a kid. I might refer to someone 18, 19, 20 and 21 as a kid, but never anyone 23 or older. It’s just ridiculous.[/quote]
It drives me nuts when people refer to college students as kids, though I’m plenty guilty of that sometimes too (dying laughing).
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It drives me nuts when people refer to college students as kids, though I’m plenty guilty of that sometimes too (dying laughing).[/quote]In my experience, when you reach that next level, you can’t help but see the people on the previous level as disproportionately younger. I taught freshman when I was getting my master’s and they seemed like infants at times.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It drives me nuts when people refer to college students as kids, though I’m plenty guilty of that sometimes too (dying laughing).[/quote]It doesn’t bother me that much for college kids. Many are there thanks to their parents financial help, they go home on weekends and some call home regularly. Perhaps physically they aren’t kids, but psychologically I think a good number of them are. So I understand calling a college person a kid. It’s not only accurate in some ways, but it’s also a much needed shut the fuck up. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
But referring to them as kids is done to make some point. Maybe it’s a stupid point, but you don’t always refer to them as kids. That would be foolish. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
According to Hawk Harrelson, if you can throw a 86 MPH Fastball and win, you are a kid. When you start attaching things like “numbers” and “information”, you aren’t a kid.
Mark Buehrle = 32 year old child.
WaLiQuote Reply
I would think it’s plainly clear to anyone that baseball is much the same game on the field today that it was 5, 10 or 25 years ago. The difference is in the front office and that does not affect anyone’s enjoyment of the game.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I would think it’s plainly clear to anyone that baseball is much the same game on the field today that it was 5, 10 or 25 years ago. The difference is in the front office and that does not affect anyone’s enjoyment of the game.[/quote]The players by-and-large don’t seem too affected by the statistics. It’s about managing the FO and maybe about influencing managerial decisions in terms of pinch hitting or when to hit and run. If a guy is following his stats and worrying too much about that stuff, that’s going to affect him whether the stat in question is FIP or ERA. That’s about his interpretation of what the numbers mean. I would more or less agree that players don’t really need to know all that. Thinking too much in any sport while you’re playing is bad.
binkyQuote Reply
I would say it’s not so much about being a child as it is trusting your training and muscle memory, and staying focused on the task at hand, in terms of positioning and all that. I seriously doubt what separates a player who throws 86 mph and is successful and one who throws 86 mph and is not successful is whether or not he knows what FIP is. Grienke knows what FIP is and he’s been very effective.
binkyQuote Reply
I think the human aspect of the game prevents some of the more out-of-the-box ideas from becoming reality, like platooning relievers using the outfield or first base, leveraging relievers at the expense of saves, optimizing lineups etc. So stats can affect players and managers, just not in the way that you would like.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
In case you missed Soriano playing golf last night:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19746387
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I think the human aspect of the game prevents some of the more out-of-the-box ideas from becoming reality, like platooning relievers using the outfield or first base, leveraging relievers at the expense of saves, optimizing lineups etc. So stats can affect players and managers, just not in the way that you would like.[/quote]Yeah, I agree that to some degree you can’t make the most optimal decision in every case because of player emotions. It may well be that the emotional impact of a guy not being THE CLOSER could result in a performance drop that offsets the benefits of closer by committee. On the other hand, it may just be that managers are afraid to try something new and are seeking ways to justify their fear, and that gets reinforced down the line. The fact that no one’s tried it to an extensive degree makes it difficult to judge what effects those techniques might have.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]In case you missed Soriano playing golf last night:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19746387%5B/quote%5DI like the little springing bat flip he’s doing now.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]In case you missed Soriano playing golf last night:
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19746387%5B/quote%5DThat was a beautiful swing. The bat flip in particular impressed me. It looked like it might helicopter into the dugout. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t get it. As I said, I’m guilty of it at times, but you’ll never hear me refer to a 25-year old as a kid. I might refer to someone 18, 19, 20 and 21 as a kid, but never anyone 23 or older. It’s just ridiculous.[/quote]I’d make an exception for Ingrid Bergman.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Latest odds update: Sox creep over 50%; Braves still screwed. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/odds/
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]That was a beautiful swing. The bat flip in particular impressed me. It looked like it might helicopter into the dugout. (dying laughing)[/quote]The bat flip was awesome.
mb21Quote Reply
Soriano seemed to do a mini-Sosa hop that you can just barely catch post bat-flip.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Joe Poz on the AL MVP vote:
http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2011/09/two-ways-to-look-at-mvp-voting.html
I really liked his Oscar analogy. It was on par with MB’s WAR = salsa analogy.
Edit: Somehow you have to work in the “salsa” tag again.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
By the way, good luck to your team tonight, Raysfags:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Video-Rays-turn-triple-play-in-tight-win-over-Y?urn=mlb-wp21219
Nice turn.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
From the Heckler.
Aisle424Quote Reply
(dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
That was a first-ballot HOF bat flip right there.
GBTSQuote Reply
I’m looking forward to that. Ostrich is gooooood.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Red Sox are thinking of acquiring Bruce Chen for game 163: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/28/red-sox-still-working-to-add-last-minute-game-163-starter-targeting-bruce-chen/
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Red Sox are thinking of acquiring Bruce Chen for game 163: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/28/red-sox-still-working-to-add-last-minute-game-163-starter-targeting-bruce-chen/%5B/quote%5DNot exactly the Tune Squad snagging Jordan, but I guess they’ll take it.
GBTSQuote Reply
Here’s Ryan Roberts’ Kirk Gibson imitation: http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19749195
ACTQuote Reply
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/reversestandings/
Amazingly, if the stars align, the Cubs can still get the #5 pick.
I think they’re guaranteed top 8 though no matter what happens.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Tonight’s free potential wild-card clinching game is STL @ HOU
Rice CubeQuote Reply
MB, Ryno:
https://isubookstore.moontoast.com/estore/embed/396
(dying laughing)
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]MB, Ryno:
https://isubookstore.moontoast.com/estore/embed/396
(dying laughing)[/quote]Before long Jamie Pollard (ISU’s athletic director) is going to put up a sign near Austin saying this: It’s the Cyclone state.
mb21Quote Reply
mb21Quote Reply
Q: How do you get an ISU grad off your front porch?
A: Pay him for the pizza.
mb21Quote Reply
Q: Want directions to Ames from Iowa City.
A: Head west until you smell it, then north until you step in it.
mb21Quote Reply
Q: How do you keep an ISU student busy for a month?
A: Give him a package of M&Ms and tell him to alphabetize them.
mb21Quote Reply
Q: What do you call an intelligent sports fan in Jack Trice Stadium?
A: A visitor.
mb21Quote Reply
Q: What’s the difference between an ISU Cheerleader and a catfish?
A: One has whiskers and stinks, and the other is a catfish.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Q: What’s the difference between an ISU Cheerleader and a catfish?
A: One has whiskers and stinks, and the other is a catfish.[/quote]Ouch.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Words fail me.
Just noticed the new comment submission message (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
It seemed appropriate, RC.
mb21Quote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/offseason-preview-trade-candidates.html
mb21Quote Reply