A part of me does wonder whether these kind of moves aren’t as bold or suggestive as I think. Consider this: we fully expect the Cubs to dump Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Zambrano this Winter, eating tens of millions of dollars in the process. Would it really be so shocking for Ricketts to be willing to eat these personnel extensions, too, if the new GM wants to bring in his own guys? — Bleacher Nation
Exactly. The days of the Cubs being unwilling to eat a contract like Milton Bradley‘s are done. When you think about that situation the Cubs handled that perfeclty in that they didn’t just release him and they actually got a player who was useful for a year. The Cubs were reportedly interested in paying a huge percentage of Soriano’s contract to trade him and will do the same with Zambrano this offseason. Fleita and Wilken if signed will make probably less than a million bucks per year combined so that won’t be an issue.
Not to mention the buyouts included in the contract for Fleita and surely included in Wilken’s if he gets one. Ace goes on a bit and reaches a different answer than I did.
I actually think the answer is yes, despite the apparent bent of my rhetorical question. Sure, the financial cost would be relatively low – I have hard time imagining that Fleita and Wilken, combined, make more than $1 million per year. But the personal cost would be quite high. What kind of name do you make for yourself when you sign guys – expressly so they don’t take opportunities with other clubs – and then can them a couple months later, knowing all the while that it was how you expected things to play out?
As cold and calculating as Ricketts might be (and that’s a compliment), I don’t think even he wants to start out in baseball with that reputation – it remains a “people” business.
It is a people business, but there are ways to handle a situation like this if it comes up. Ideally Ricketts would have told Fleita and Wilken the situation, and by including buyouts and such in their contracts, he actually did so it would seem to me that these guys are well aware of what may happen. I also think the “name” he’d make for himself is one that shows that he’s not going to meddle in the business side of things if such a decision was made. I don’t think it would reflect poorly on Ricketts, but quite the opposite to be honest.
The reality here is that Fleita was kept around because he’s familiar with the system and any GM would want him around for at least the first season since he wouldn’t be taking over until sometime in November. Wilken has made one hell of a name for himself so I think most people not named mb21 thought that Wilken would be retained anyway. After all, when Andrew Friedman took over as the Rays GM, Tim Wilken was the scouting director and he didn’t fire him. Wilken left the following year for the Cubs.
Regardless of why the Cubs did it, or whether or not it may reflect poorly on Ricketts, signing Fleita and eventually Wilken remain mostly inconsequential. Neither is going to make that much money and the Cubs are already interested in shipping away about $60 million or more so I’m pretty sure another million won’t be an issue.
Comments
The more I’ve thought about it the more I believe Ricketts has his GM and has run these moves past him. I also think it means Friedman, Cashman or Epstein will not be the next Cubs GM.
melissaQuote Reply
I don’t know about that, melissa. If he already had his guy and has been talking to him, he’d just go ahead and hire him. From what I can tell, he’s collecting information and narrowing the list.
Tim Wilken was the scouting director and by default the farm director (no position existed at the time) for the Rays when Friedman was hired. He kept him. David Chadd was the Red Sox scouting director in 2002 and Theo kept him. Mark Newman had the same title that Fleita had before Cashman was hired in 1998 and he kept him. I believe he’s still in the organization though he took a lesser role about 5 or 6 years ago.
After looking at this, my guess is that Ricketts found the same information and that most new GMs keep those guys around for at least the first year. So he did the same.
There’s literally no reason whatsoever to think that signing Fleita or Wilken is going to keep any GM from taking the job. 3 of the best already took a position with someone in that job and they kept them. Theo and Cashman kept their guys around for years while Wilken left for more money with the Cubs.
mb21Quote Reply
Grady Fuson was the Scouting Director for the A’s from 1995 to 2001. Billy Beane took over in 1998. He also served as Farm Directory (position didn’t exist after Walt Jockety left in 1990 until 2001).
For those keeping count, that’s 4 new GMs and no scouting director or farm director fired. 4 of the best GMs. The reason for this seems obvious to me: the GM doesn’t have enough time to learn the minor league system. He barely as enough time to figure out what’s going on at the MLB level. He needs people who are familiar with the minor league system.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Grady Fuson was the Scouting Director for the A’s from 1995 to 2001. Billy Beane took over in 1998. He also served as Farm Directory (position didn’t exist after Walt Jockety left in 1990 until 2001).
For those keeping count, that’s 4 new GMs and no scouting director or farm director fired. 4 of the best GMs. The reason for this seems obvious to me: the GM doesn’t have enough time to learn the minor league system. He barely as enough time to figure out what’s going on at the MLB level. He needs people who are familiar with the minor league system.[/quote]
Yeah, but have you considered how much interest you can generate in yourself if you make a really big deal out of these contracts? Think about she sheer number of time that has been devoted to this, all because of ME.
Steve RosenbloomQuote Reply
Now I’m just looking over some names I know have signed recently.
Ned Coletti hired by Dodgers and kept the Scouting Director and Farm Director.
Josh Byrnes kept both.
Doug Melvin kept Jack Z around (no Farm Director at the time).
John Daniels kept both.
Neil Huntington kept Scouting Director (no Farm Director).
Pat Gillick kept both and then Ruben Amaro Jr. kept both
Omar Minaya fired the Scouting Director, kept the Farm Director.
Took me 11 recent GMs to find one who fired a scouting director or farm director. So yeah, Ricketts researched this and realized the only GM who was going to replace was anyone was Omar Minaya and then he realized that he’s the last person he’d hire so he’s keeping those guys around.
If anything, this is a perfect example of Tom Ricketts showing up the media and the fans because he knew this when he made the decision. I wish I looked into this a couple days ago.
mb21Quote Reply
Cliff Lee just pitched his 6th shutout and has a 29 2/3 scoreless inning streak going.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Cliff Lee just pitched his 6th shutout and has a 29 2/3 scoreless inning streak going.[/quote]Is he about halfway to the record?
mb21Quote Reply
Orel did 60.
ACTQuote Reply
Looks like I nailed it when I predicted the Phillies would have a good rotation this year.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Looks like I nailed it when I predicted the Phillies would have a good rotation this year.[/quote](dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
If you predicted the Yankees would have a good offense, you’d then be a genius.
mb21Quote Reply
If the new GM wants to make a change it’s likely to happen a year from now or later. If Fleita is as good as it seems other teams will still be interested and the new GM will just let him out of his contract.
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]If you predicted the Yankees would have a good offense, you’d then be a genius.[/quote]Yeah, but who could have seen that one coming?
ACTQuote Reply
Darn, was hoping for a perfect game tonight. Stupid White Sox.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I think we’ve gone beyond the fact that keeping Fleita and Wilken doesn’t matter and reached the point of saying it is probably the correct and prudent thing to do.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I think we’ve gone beyond the fact that keeping Fleita and Wilken doesn’t matter and reached the point of saying it is probably the correct and prudent thing to do.[/quote]At the very least it’s what every GM not named Minaya does and that’s probably a reason in itself to keep the guys around. He did keep the Farm Director and it’s entirely possible the Scouting Director left on his own. In fact, I’d say that’s probably what happened. What’s the point of firing the Scouting Director and keeping the Farm Director?
mb21Quote Reply
When Alderson took over the Mets this past offseason he did clean house. Alderson has been around the game since 1800s so he’s probably familiar with every farm system for every team. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
What I’m really looking forward to is the new GM hiring some previous horrible GM as an assistant and watching Cubs fans go bananas. I’ll just point them in the direction of Theo Epstein and Allan Baird. Baird actually has an important job in the Sox organization too.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]What I’m really looking forward to is the new GM hiring some previous horrible GM as an assistant and watching Cubs fans go bananas. I’ll just point them in the direction of Theo Epstein and Allan Baird. Baird actually has an important job in the Sox organization too.[/quote]
What is Larry Himes up to these days?
Aisle424Quote Reply
Ed Lynch?
Aisle424Quote Reply
Cubs should hire Brad Pitt as their new GM. I have it on certain authority that he doesn’t play by the traditional rules when it comes to building a team.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]What I’m really looking forward to is the new GM hiring some previous horrible GM as an assistant and watching Cubs fans go bananas. I’ll just point them in the direction of Theo Epstein and Allan Baird. Baird actually has an important job in the Sox organization too.[/quote]
What I’m hoping for is that Ricketts continues to make intelligent moves and doesn’t worry about whether they are fan-sanctioned or not.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Ken Rosenthal begs to differ with us. This was part of an article RTed by Miles and Sullivan.
I think the media is pissed as hell at the Ricketts at this point for blatantly misleading them about the Hendry firing. This is going to get fun because Ricketts has completely lost media support and my understanding is that he doesn’t give a fuck.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I’m starting to like Tom Ricketts a little more now. Just a little.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424] This is going to get fun because Ricketts has completely lost media support and my understanding is that he doesn’t give a fuck.[/quote]
Is this bad? I didn’t realize that the media mattered that much in normal baseball operations.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Was just going to share this new ESPNChicago link if nobody’s seen it yet:
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/6934417/jon-greenberg-tom-ricketts-putting-stamp-chicago-cubs-he
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Is this bad? I didn’t realize that the media mattered that much in normal baseball operations.[/quote]
I don’t think it matters in the slightest baseball-wise, but it is going to be harder to get the fans back on his side because the machine that has turned fans against the lazy Latinos and anyone else who isn’t running into brick walls on every play is now aimed squarely at Tom Ricketts.
At this point, I think Ricketts could somehow sign Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, and Bob Gibson in their primes and the media would bitch about how no GM would want to come to the Cubs if the owner is making these moves all on his own.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I don’t think it matters in the slightest baseball-wise, but it is going to be harder to get the fans back on his side because the machine that has turned fans against the lazy Latinos and anyone else who isn’t running into brick walls on every play is now aimed squarely at Tom Ricketts.
At this point, I think Ricketts could somehow sign Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Willie Mays, and Bob Gibson in their primes and the media would bitch about how no GM would want to come to the Cubs if the owner is making these moves all on his own.[/quote]
Ted Williams never won a World Series so he’s obviously not a winner.
On a serious note, I think I do like the part where Tom Ricketts is like the honey badger and just doesn’t give a shit.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Ed Lynch?[/quote]
Ed Wade should be available soon (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
Rumors of Texas + 3 to the ACC are surfacing. I think it’s bullshit, but who knows?
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Ken Rosenthal begs to differ with us. This was part of an article RTed by Miles and Sullivan.
I think the media is pissed as hell at the Ricketts at this point for blatantly misleading them about the Hendry firing. This is going to get fun because Ricketts has completely lost media support and my understanding is that he doesn’t give a fuck.[/quote]I think everybody’s initial reaction was that it was stupid, but when you think it over and then look at other examples you see it’s exactly the thing to do. Levine mentioned buyouts in Fleita’s contract and probably Wilken’s as well. My guess is there is one after the 1st year because the new GM would presumably be familiar enough with the minor league organization to make his own decisions. If I’m the owner, I’m not letting a new GM pick someone for those two positions right away. It’s easy enough to fire someone making under a million bucks so in a year or two if that’s what the GM wants then he could fire them and hire his own guys.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]Rumors of Texas + 3 to the ACC are surfacing. I think it’s bullshit, but who knows?[/quote]
I’m not sure which side that’s a more terrible match for.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I’m not sure which side that’s a more terrible match for.[/quote]
Are they going to change the name of the conference? Although I suppose Texas can still be an Atlantic Coast Conference school since the Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic Ocean.
FrankQuote Reply
[quote name=Frank]Are they going to change the name of the conference? Although I suppose Texas can still be an Atlantic Coast Conference school since the Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic Ocean.[/quote]It’s like the Pacific 12. For that matter, it’s like the Big Ten, which has 12 teams and the Big 12 which has 10. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s like the Pacific 12. For that matter, it’s like the Big Ten, which has 12 teams and the Big 12 which has 10. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Or like Major League Soccer?
(it’s still soccer)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Or like Major League Soccer?
(it’s still soccer)[/quote]
I’m guessing it’s the most awesome soccer that the US of A has to offer, so in a relative sense they’re not really lying to you (dying laughing)
Post-Labor Day Twitters and blogs are freaking out about this whole “Tom Ricketts is pre-empting the new GM” thing.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
What with all the grudging kudos given to Ricketts recently by former Ricketts-skeptics (Aisley comes to mind), does that mean MO no longer calls him a snakeoil salesman?
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]
Post-Labor Day Twitters and blogs are freaking out about this whole “Tom Ricketts is pre-empting the new GM” thing.[/quote]
Tom himself set people up to believe this was the wrong move when he told everyone after firing Hendry that the new GM would decide whether or not to keep Fleita and Wilken.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Tom himself set people up to believe this was the wrong move when he told everyone after firing Hendry that the new GM would decide whether or not to keep Fleita and Wilken.[/quote]
I guess he should have hired a better PR guy.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I guess he should have hired a better PR guy.[/quote]I’ve said it before: I once played an awesome prank on Tom’s personal PR guy, who was kind of a dick and deserved it. That was many lifetimes ago though.
But I think that’s part of his PR problems – he has his own PR guy separate from the Cubs’ PR, and that shit’s gonna fuck stuff up.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Was just going to share this new ESPNChicago link if nobody’s seen it yet:
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/6934417/jon-greenberg-tom-ricketts-putting-stamp-chicago-cubs-he%5B/quote%5D
That’s a really interesting article, I hadn’t realized that Fleita was still under contract for one more season which makes this move even more curious.
Even if other teams were interested in Fleita at the end of this season the Cubs had him under contract. I’d really love to hear Ricketts say something about the need to get this extension finalized before the new GM was hired.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Tom himself set people up to believe this was the wrong move when he told everyone after firing Hendry that the new GM would decide whether or not to keep Fleita and Wilken.[/quote]Classic bit of foot-in-mouth disease there.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Tom himself set people up to believe this was the wrong move when he told everyone after firing Hendry that the new GM would decide whether or not to keep Fleita and Wilken.[/quote]
Nothing he has done contradicts that. The contracts mean nothing other than they now have the option to keep them if they want. Otherwise it is simply a golden parachute given to guys they like and respect.
This may not be the way things have traditionally gotten done in baseball, but Ricketts is corporate through and through and this is not a big deal. I guarantee you that if Theo Epstein picked up the phone and told Ricketts he would take the job on the condition that he bring his guys with him from Boston, Ricketts would still make the deal and either demote those two into other parts of the organization or let them go find something else while keeping the Cubs money.
Larry Himes worked for the Cubs for years after he was removed from the GM spot. Gene Michael got shuffled all over the Yankees system (and may still even work there for all I know). It happens. The media is making a big fucking deal out of something that isn’t a big fucking deal because they are pissed. I’d bet my life on it.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I think we’ve gone beyond the fact that keeping Fleita and Wilken doesn’t matter and reached the point of saying it is probably the correct and prudent thing to do.[/quote]
You really need to change your banner pic to one befitting the OV holy trinity of Ricketts, Fleita and Wilken. (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]The media is making a big fucking deal out of something that isn’t a big fucking deal because they are pissed. I’d bet my life on it.[/quote]
This probably means the media just put out a hit on you.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]This probably means the media just put out a hit on you.[/quote]
Since their last report on my whereabouts is 6 months old, I feel fairly safe,
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Nothing he has done contradicts that. The contracts mean nothing other than they now have the option to keep them if they want. Otherwise it is simply a golden parachute given to guys they like and respect.
[/quote]
Tommy post-Hendry firing:
Extending Fleita when he still has a year left on his deal does contradict what Tommy Boy said here.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]The media is making a big fucking deal out of something that isn’t a big fucking deal because they are
lazyboredcunts. I’d bet my life on it.[/quote].Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Since their last report on my whereabouts is 6 months old, I feel fairly safe,[/quote]
Better hope nobody leaks your last known whereabouts from 6 months ago to the press or else they might actually get a clue.
Oooh, Stephen Strasburg pitches tonight as a starter. I wonder if that’s smart. 100 mph fastballs are pretty awesome though.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
If you want your new GM to “own” the results you don’t extend his subordinates when they have a year left on their deal. As for the golden parachute talk that’s been manufactured here, there was no rush to give it to Fleita now, Tommy could have done that next year as well.
melissaQuote Reply
I think extending Fleita and Wilken is probably much less damaging than announcing they just hired Randy Bush to be the permanent GM or giving Kerry Wood an extension.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I think extending Fleita and Wilken is probably much less damaging than announcing they just hired Randy Bush to be the permanent GM or giving Kerry Wood an extension.[/quote]
I think Fleita and Wilken have much more of an impact on the organization than Wood possibly could. Fleita and Wilken are probably almost as responsible as Hendry for the current state of this organization. I’m not meaning that as derogatory towards any of them. Hendry was certainly the fall guy which is how it goes when you’re the GM.
melissaQuote Reply
Agreed, Aisley. I actually think this is as big a deal as the Cubs re-signing a vendor. Maybe he didn’t do a very good job, but who the fuck cares?
mb21Quote Reply
I’m disappointed that the mlb.tv free game isn’t the Strasburg game. Instead, it’s just showing Cubs/Reds. Who cares about those teams?
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]If you want your new GM to “own” the results you don’t extend his subordinates when they have a year left on their deal. As for the golden parachute talk that’s been manufactured here, there was no rush to give it to Fleita now, Tommy could have done that next year as well.[/quote]
Why can’t the new GM “own” the decisions if they get extended? If they get hired away by another team, suddenly the new GM has fewer options. You can always dismiss what you have, but you can’t regain it once it is gone.
I just don’t understand how this necessarily makes the new GM any less powerful. Maybe it does. Maybe everyone is correct in saying that Tommy is starting to mold the team as a meddlesome owner, but this action does nothing to prove that.
In theory, a new GM coming in has as much right to clean house as he did before. Sports contracts mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. We’re used to the iron-clad baseball contracts, but college coaches come and go at will no matter how long they have signed for, football players get cut 2 years into a 6 year deal, GMs and managers get bought out of their contracts all the time, so why would Fleita and Wilken’s deals be any different?
The tone of the organization will be set by the next GM (or more accurately, by Ricketts choice of the new GM). Anything that happens now can be undone very easily. Ricketts is maintaining status quo to keep the organization running halfway decently while they don’t have a GM.
Granted, how Ricketts didn’t know these actions would start a shitstorm is beyond me.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I’m disappointed that the mlb.tv free game isn’t the Strasburg game. Instead, it’s just showing Cubs/Reds. Who cares about those teams?[/quote]
We poor Chicagoland folk will be blacked out anyway. Stupid blackout rules.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I think Fleita and Wilken have much more of an impact on the organization than Wood possibly could. Fleita and Wilken are probably almost as responsible as Hendry for the current state of this organization. I’m not meaning that as derogatory towards any of them. Hendry was certainly the fall guy which is how it goes when you’re the GM.[/quote]Fleita and Wilken are going to know their job depends on keeping the boss happy. The boss in this case is the GM. If the GM wants them to do something differently do you really think one of them is going to tell the GM to shove it up his ass and keep doing it his way?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]
Granted, how Ricketts didn’t know these actions would start a shitstorm is beyond me.[/quote]
I still like the idea of him knowing and still not giving a shit.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I still like the idea of him knowing and still not giving a shit.[/quote]
It could be he didn’t give a shit because he didn’t think it would get blown up like this. I mean, who gives a shit who the Director of Player Personnel is anyway? I bet half the people wringing their hands over these actions didn’t know who Oneiri Fleita was until this news came out.
I could run into him on the street and wouldn’t know who he was. I have no idea what he looks like.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Let’s also not ignore that the most meddlesome owner in baseball is the Steinbrenner family. I’d say they’ve done a pretty good job.
To be honest, I really don’t care if the owner meddles. It’s his damn business. It’s his money. It’s his investment. He’s the one who has assumes the most risk. When the GM or any employee has as much to lose as the owner then we can talk about whether or not the owner should stop meddling. I think we have to be naive to beleive that an owner of a sports team just sits back and lets people run his investment worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
The owner is always going to meddle. By setting a budget he is in a sense meddling. By firing the GM he’s meddling.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]It could be he didn’t give a shit because he didn’t think it would get blown up like this. I mean, who gives a shit who the Director of Player Personnel is anyway? I bet half the people wringing their hands over these actions didn’t know who Oneiri Fleita was until this news came out.
I could run into him on the street and wouldn’t know who he was. I have no idea what he looks like.[/quote]I know his birth name is David and that he changed it to Oneri when his mother or father was dying. I’ve seen pictures of him and maybe even have seen him before, but I wouldn’t recognize him up close. I don’t even know if I’d recognize Tom Ricketts up close. It would largely depend on where I was at and what he was wearing. If he’s wearing shorts and a t-shirt and I run into him in Utah, I’ll have no fucking clue who he is.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I know his birth name is David and that he changed it to Oneri when his mother or father was dying. I’ve seen pictures of him and maybe even have seen him before, but I wouldn’t recognize him up close. I don’t even know if I’d recognize Tom Ricketts up close. It would largely depend on where I was at and what he was wearing. If he’s wearing shorts and a t-shirt and I run into him in Utah, I’ll have no fucking clue who he is.[/quote]
I’ve seen Tom Ricketts a few times at Wrigley Field milling around the fans. He’s pretty non-descript though and could moonlight as a KGB agent in another life.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]
Post-Labor Day Twitters and blogs are freaking out about this whole “Tom Ricketts is pre-empting the new GM” thing.[/quote]What Ricketts wants to happen between now and the time a new GM is hired is for everyone with jobs to keep doing them. Extending the contracts of key members of the front office is the perfect way to make that happen.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]If the GM wants them to do something differently do you really think one of them is going to tell the GM to shove it up his ass and keep doing it his way?[/quote]
No and I don’t think i’ve said anything that would indicate such. It does set up a dynamic where Fleita and Wilken answer to the owner, who extended them, as opposed to just the GM. That may or may not have any impact within the organization. There seems to be a dynamic here where people have to be all for this move or all against it, I’m neither.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Why can’t the new GM “own” the decisions if they get extended? If they get hired away by another team, suddenly the new GM has fewer options. You can always dismiss what you have, but you can’t regain it once it is gone. .[/quote]
You seem to be ignoring the fact that Fleita was still under contract through next season. There was no reason whatsoever he needed to be extended in order to keep him from being hired away by another org. This move was not maintaining the status quo, having Fleita under contract through 2012 already did that.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]No and I don’t think i’ve said anything that would indicate such. It does set up a dynamic where Fleita and Wilken answer to the owner, who extended them, as opposed to just the GM. That may or may not have any impact within the organization. There seems to be a dynamic here where people have to be all for this move or all against it, I’m neither.[/quote]You’re either for us or against us, Melissa. The Axis of Evil always has room for one more member. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]You’re either for us or against us, Melissa. The Axis of Evil always has room for one more member. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
/obligatory Star Wars meme’d
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]You seem to be ignoring the fact that Fleita was still under contract through next season. There was no reason whatsoever he needed to be extended in order to keep him from being hired away by another org. This move was not maintaining the status quo, having Fleita under contract through 2012 already did that.[/quote]
Given how baseball works, if the Tigers came to the Cubs and they denied them the rights to talk to one of their employees because his contract was nearing an end and the Cubs declined, that is a huge dick move. They are not prepared to accept the foregone conclusion that Fleita and Wilkens will be out on their ears when the new GM comes in. Like MB found by doing a few Google searches (how come the media hasn’t discovered Google yet?), it would not be unprecedented for the Cubs to keep the people in their positions under a new GM. In fact, it would seem the opposite is actually true.
Personally, I wouldn’t care if they did leave. It’s not like the farm system has been churning out regular all-stars. But like I said, the only thing Ricketts lost in re-upping these guys when he did is money. He didn’t relinquish any power, he didn’t hamstring his new GM, he gave a couple of decent employees that they probably really like a few more dollars.
We can call it a bonus, a golden parachute, or the cost of doing business, but it is only money and it isn’t our money.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]You’re either for us or against us, Melissa. The Axis of Evil always has room for one more member. (dying laughing)[/quote]
(dying laughing) I thought I was already on the side of evil.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]No and I don’t think i’ve said anything that would indicate such. It does set up a dynamic where Fleita and Wilken answer to the owner, who extended them, as opposed to just the GM. That may or may not have any impact within the organization. There seems to be a dynamic here where people have to be all for this move or all against it, I’m neither.[/quote]I certainly don’t think you have to be all for it or agains it. I don’t even see it as a decision with those two options. It’s such a meaningless decision that I’m shocked it’s been discussed this much (and I’ll have another post about this coming up after I do some research) (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]You seem to be ignoring the fact that Fleita was still under contract through next season. There was no reason whatsoever he needed to be extended in order to keep him from being hired away by another org. This move was not maintaining the status quo, having Fleita under contract through 2012 already did that.[/quote]
His current contract replaced the contract he had for next season. That’s interesting because, as you say, there’s no reason to extend him. However, this does restructure the contract and we know from Levine that it has buyouts. Without knowing what those are, we really don’t have any idea what his contract is. It’s entirely possible a buyout is feasible as soon as a new GM is hired. That wouldn’t surprise me, but I would expect it would be after the 1st year. From what I can find, there was little to no chance Fleita or Wilken would be replaced the first year and probably not even the 2nd or 3rd year. Even if it’s a 4-year guaranteed contract, to me this says that Ricketts did his homework and looked to see how other new GMs have handled things.
mb21Quote Reply
How the media overlooks this is beyond me. The information is readily available. I’d assume these guys have decent sources that could even shed more light on the situation, but it does appear obvious that teams keep these two guys around. Of all the front office positions, it appears that the lowest turnover rate is with these two jobs.
mb21Quote Reply
Apparently this article is circulating rather well today:
http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2011/09/06/is-war-the-new-rbi/
The gist is that they’re arguing the defensive component of WAR is skewing it a bunch. Which I can see as I don’t think Jose Bautista and Jacoby Ellsbury are almost equally valuable as FanGraphs would suggest.
Edit: Beyond the Box Score also had a couple of articles today about offensive and defensive opportunities that I thought were interesting.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/9/6/2407106/opportunities-another-flaw-in-fielding-metrics
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/9/6/2407632/the-flip-side-of-rbis-run-opportunity-creators
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I think the problem is not WAR per se, but relying on one version of WAR for one player. One thing I like about both versions of WAR is that they lay out the individual components so you can scrutinize them individually.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It’s entirely possible a buyout is feasible as soon as a new GM is hired. That wouldn’t surprise me, but I would expect it would be after the 1st year. From what I can find, there was little to no chance Fleita or Wilken would be replaced the first year and probably not even the 2nd or 3rd year. Even if it’s a 4-year guaranteed contract, to me this says that Ricketts did his homework and looked to see how other new GMs have handled things.[/quote]
Part of my point would be that the new GM should be handling this. To compare what other orgs have done after they hire the GM isn’t really the same as what the Cubs are doing before they hire that GM. There is a high likelihood Fleita and Wilken would have been kept on after the new GM took his place so wait until he’s hired and then announce this move. It may have happened before but you don’t hear of teams extending the farm and scouting directors while they are in the process of finding a GM. After the GM is in place then these decisions are instituted.
melissaQuote Reply
Also,
Not so. They have the same UZR, but positional adjustments give Tulo a huge boost over Lee.
ACTQuote Reply
Looks like Tango made the same point.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Also, Not so. They have the same UZR, but positional adjustments give Tulo a huge boost over Lee.[/quote]
I saw that too and was wondering how UZR would be valued based on the position. They do a flat-rate adjustment based on whether you’re a shortstop or a left fielder, right? So even if the base UZR is the same, the WAR total after everything is integrated will be different.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
UZR is runs saved above average for the position. Positional adjustment adjusts for the difficulty of the position.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]UZR is runs saved above average for the position. Positional adjustment adjusts for the difficulty of the position.[/quote]
The only thing I really know about UZR is that such a thing exists 😀 I thought the positional adjustment was made to the final WAR total, not to UZR itself?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]The only thing I really know about UZR is that such a thing exists 😀 I thought the positional adjustment was made to the final WAR total, not to UZR itself?[/quote]That’s correct.
ACTQuote Reply
The stuff on UZR being related to flyball rates is interesting. It never occurred to me that Sori’s elevated 2007 UZR war a result of pitcher flyball rates.
ACTQuote Reply
Can you explain how it’s different and why we shouldn’t look at how other teams in similar positions behaved? Maybe I’m an idiot, but that seems to be the best (only?) way to evaluate it. If only 5% of the time a new GM replaces the Farm Director, don’t we have to assume that the value of having the same Farm Director is much greater than you seem to be assuming? I guess I don’t know how else to look at it. If a new GM fired the Farm Director 95% of te time I think we could assume it’s a position the new GM feels he needs his own guy in. Otherwise, there’s something about that position that we’re not taking into account.
mb21Quote Reply
I sort of understand the gist of the article being that WAR isn’t perfect, but I still like using it as a quick reference to see how a player had been valued relative to his peers that season.
At the same time I think I prefer the B-Ref WAR since it doesn’t use UZR and I feel like UZR makes the FanGraphs WAR seem out of wack. Will have to learn about this more but at first glance I just don’t like how volatile UZR is from season to season. Hope that doesn’t make me a Luddite.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I’d also add that we don’t hear about the scouting or farm directors being extended because we pay little to no attention to those positions in other teams. Can you name 5 scouting directors? I’ve read the BA prospect handbook each year since 2003 and I can’t name 5. I’ve read the stuff online there for several years and the chats and several other prospect sites and I can’t do it. The only farm director I can name is the Cubs. Maybe you’re more knowledgeable about who is in these positions than I, but I think I can safely say that I can 3 or 4 more scouting directors than the average Cubs fan. If asked a couple weeks ago I’m betting the average fan didn’t even know who the farm director or scouting director was.
mb21Quote Reply
Actually, I can name 2 scouting directors off the top of my head: Tim Wilken and Matt Arnold. A couple years ago you could have added Jack Z to that list, but he’s now a GM. Can someone here even name 10 GMs off the top of their head?
mb21Quote Reply
Bruce Levine’s thoughts:
Hmm. Speculation, or common sense?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
More Levine:
Interesting. Bruce Levine is not freaking out.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I really like the Golden Parachute explanation. That makes perfect sense. In a way, if he restructured the contracts to include buyouts, you could look at it like Ricketts saying “There’s a good chance the new GM will want his own guys, so I want to make sure you get taken care of and know there are no hard feelings between you and I, no matter what the new GM does.”
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Actually, I can name 2 scouting directors off the top of my head: Tim Wilken and Matt Arnold. A couple years ago you could have added Jack Z to that list, but he’s now a GM. Can someone here even name 10 GMs off the top of their head?[/quote]I just figured out what a GM does about 5 years ago.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Can you explain how it’s different and why we shouldn’t look at how other teams in similar positions behaved? .[/quote]
You are looking at how teams behaved after they hired a GM which isn’t what has occurred here. The Cubs are doing this before they hire the GM. I know the Cubs scouting and farm directors because I follow the Cubs and I’ve heard them interviewed numerous times here in Chicago. I don’t give a shit who is in those positions in other orgs because I don’t follow those teams. I’d say most people that follow the org they root for as closely as those of us here do, know who the farm and or scouting directors are.
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]You are looking at how teams behaved after they hired a GM which isn’t what has occurred here. [/quote]
How do we know this doesn’t happen? Have you followed the interview process for GMs of other teams closely and paid attention to whether or not they gave contracts to the scouting and farm directors? That’s why I asked how many you could name. I would assume if you have followed these events closely then you are quite familiar with who these guys are.
Which of these are currently Farm Directors?
Kris Kline
Kent Qualls
Dana Brown
Dave Wilder
Bill Harford
Dave Gotfried
Al Goldis
Brian Small
I don’t know about you, but these aren’t names I’ve heard and 2 of them are former Cubs farm directors.
I’m going to assume you’ve paid as little attention to the hiring process of various GMs as I have. If you have paid more attention, I apologize. I know Jack Z was hired by the Mariners a couple years ago and I have literally no idea whatsoever who the Scouting or Farm Directors are. I’m pretty sure I’ve never heard of either one them. Ever.
mb21Quote Reply
Also, one of those guys was a Scouting Director for the Cubs.
mb21Quote Reply
I guess I’m fine with someone (the owner) step in and make a choice when the person who would normally make the choice is not there. The world isn’t stopping. Otherteams are probably very interested in these guys. Letting them twist in the wind while the hiring process goes on and on and on (I’ll be shocked if there is a new GM before the World Series ends which is 2 months from now) is pointless.
They want those guys to stay, so they are setting it up so that they may stay, or they get compensated for twiddling their thumbs now instead of looking for new employment. I just don’t see how this changes a new GM’s power or autonomy.
It would be a really simple conversation in the interview:
Candidate: I see you extended Wilken and Fleita.
Ricketts: Yes, we really like the job they have done and think they are a benefit to the organization.
Candidate: I’m sure they’re fine, but I have a couple of guys that I really trust and value and I’d like to bring them in to help me execute my vision.
Ricketts: Well we can re-assign them as you see fit, or there are some buyout clauses we can explore as options.
Candidate: So you aren’t going to make me keep them on?
Ricketts: No.
Candidate: I can bring in my own people?
Ricketts: Yes.
Candidate: Then why extend them in the first place?
Ricketts: We wanted to have the option to keep them. but we structured the deal in such a way that there are outs. Both these guys are fully aware of the situation and how it might shake out.
I can’t see a real GM candidate having a problem with this scenario.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Keep in mind, I’m not saying this is exactly how things are going. I’m simply saying that the actions taken so far don’t necessarily rule out a cleaning house under a new guy, nor does it mean that if they happen to stay on it is because Ricketts has decreed that it be so to his incoming GM.
As far as I can see, the possibilities of where this organization can go under a new GM are no more restricted after these moves than they were before.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I recognize Al Goldis’ name. I don’t know why though.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Screw a new post about this shit.
Over the last 30 years, only 6.8% of Farm Directors (FD) have been replaced by a new GM. This could mean a few different things.
It could mean that the FD’s have just been awesome at their jobs.
Maybe that person in that position is vital to learning important aspects of the system.
Maybe that position is more important to the owner than the GM and he doesn’t give new GMs permission to fire those guys.
I don’t know what it is, but those guys are kept around after a new GM comes along. It’s very likely that Ricketts learned this when he began his search for a new GM. It’s equally likely that he understands that at some point a GM will want to have the option to replace that guy and so he added the buyout into the extension. Without knowing more I don’t see how we can be critical of Ricketts for this. He has done what nearly 95% of other new GMs have done.
Dave Dombrowski is one who replaced the scouting director, but he had been the team president first so he was in a very different position than other new GMs.
Both of them were very familiar with the system already. it’s even rarer that a person comes from outside the organization to become GM and gets rid of the FD.
In 1992 Sal Bando became the Brewers GM and replaced the Farm Director. Bando had worked in the Brewers front office for about a decade.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I recognize Al Goldis’ name. I don’t know why though.[/quote]Goldis was the Cubs scouting director from 1993-1995. I vaguely recall his name. He was also the White Sox SD in 1991 and the Brewers in 1992. Jim Hendry replaced Goldis as SD in 1996.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is that few people have heard of these guys (even Cubs fans). Bill Harford and Dave Wilder were the FDs in the Cubs system before Fleita, but that was back in the 90s. Cubs didn’t have that position from the late 90s until 2008. Several teams went a long time without that position. I’d assume the SD was acting as the FD then.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]
As far as I can see, the possibilities of where this organization can go under a new GM are no more restricted after these moves than they were before.[/quote]They’re not. We are talking about an organization willing to eat upwards of $60 million. I doubt another couple million, if it came to that, is a big deal. That’s pocket change compared to what the Cubs are going to eat to get rid of Zambrano and Soriano.
mb21Quote Reply
I also don’t mind Ricketts saying he wants this guy or that guy. it’s plainly obvious that teams don’t often replace the scouting director and rarely replace the farm director when a new GM is hired. If Ricketts hires a manager I’ll care. Until then, I just don’t.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21] If Ricketts hires a manager I’ll care. Until then, I just don’t.[/quote]
I recall the Steinbrenners overruled Cashman in either acquiring Rafael Soriano, overpaying him, or both. I don’t think the Ricketts are in Steinbrenner territory yet. In retrospect it seems they’ve been very very patient and calculating, and at the same time they’ve been flexible.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I recall the Steinbrenners overruled Cashman in either acquiring Rafael Soriano, overpaying him, or both. I don’t think the Ricketts are in Steinbrenner territory yet. In retrospect it seems they’ve been very very patient and calculating, and at the same time they’ve been flexible.[/quote]
I seem to remember one edict from the Ricketts was to rid the team of Milton Bradley one way or another. It seems there may be another one or two about dumping Soriano and Zambrano and to hell with the costs.
So it’s not like Tommy has been completely sitting back and just watching shit happen. He’s been involved. How much is hard to say and how much I’m comfortable with him getting into is another thing, but it seems that Tom is not going to be completely hands off on the baseball side of things.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I recall the Steinbrenners overruled Cashman in either acquiring Rafael Soriano, overpaying him, or both. I don’t think the Ricketts are in Steinbrenner territory yet. In retrospect it seems they’ve been very very patient and calculating, and at the same time they’ve been flexible.[/quote]Brian Cashman said he had nothing to do with that deal and didn’t want to sign him for that money. Imagine how well that made Soriano feel. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
I don’t necessarily think Ricketts should be hands off the baseball ops either. If you owned a business, would you appreciate it if your employees told you to stay out and just let the manager run things? It’s easy for people who aren’t spending the money to suggest a certain way a business should be run, but at the end if the day Ricketts is the one spending the money and has the most risk. Yeah, I’d prefer he stay out of it, but that’s not realistic. We’re talking about a guy with an investment of nearly a billion dollars.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Brian Cashman said he had nothing to do with that deal and didn’t want to sign him for that money. Imagine how well that made Soriano feel. (dying laughing)[/quote]
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that he didn’t care as long as he was getting paid $30MM or however much that deal was.
Brad from Cubs Stats suggested in his blog today that Billy Beane is the likely Cubs GM. What would BB do re: the guys Ricketts kept around? That, methinks, is a more interesting question.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
“This certainly will help us try to win a championship, there’s no doubt about that, so that’s in the plus column,” Cashman said. “But I didn’t recommend it, just because I didn’t think it was an efficient way to allocate the remaining resources we have. We had a lot of debate about that.”
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I’m going to go out on a limb and say that he didn’t care as long as he was getting paid $30MM or however much that deal was.
Brad from Cubs Stats suggested in his blog today that Billy Beane is the likely Cubs GM. What would BB do re: the guys Ricketts kept around? That, methinks, is a more interesting question.[/quote]Beane is one of the guys who did not replace either the SD or FD so I don’t think it matters. Like I said earlier, these guys take their lead from the GM so whatever he wants them to do is whatever they’ll do. Their job depends on it.
mb21Quote Reply
I highly doubt Beane is the next GM. Of all the GM candidates out there, and that includes every GM, former GM, assistant GM, scouting director and so on, he’s probably one of the least likely to land the job. that ownership of the A’s will prevent it and I don’t think anything could be done in a timely enough manner that would enable him to take the job.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Beane is one of the guys who did not replace either the SD or FD so I don’t think it matters. Like I said earlier, these guys take their lead from the GM so whatever he wants them to do is whatever they’ll do. Their job depends on it.[/quote]
Yay, more walks for all! (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I don’t necessarily think Ricketts should be hands off the baseball ops either. If you owned a business, would you appreciate it if your employees told you to stay out and just let the manager run things? It’s easy for people who aren’t spending the money to suggest a certain way a business should be run, but at the end if the day Ricketts is the one spending the money and has the most risk. Yeah, I’d prefer he stay out of it, but that’s not realistic. We’re talking about a guy with an investment of nearly a billion dollars.[/quote]
Yeah, just have to hope that your owner has a certain amount of delegation skills and trust in his employees, plus an awareness of how little he probably knows compared to the guys he is paying to do the jobs.
It’s funny because Cubs fans wanted Mark Cuban who probably would have been running rough-shod over whoever his GM was every time something wasn’t going exactly the way he liked it.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Didn’t that so-called meeting get debunked anyway?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Didn’t that so-called meeting get debunked anyway?[/quote]
There’s so much random speculation going on that I have no idea what’s real and what is just stuff the so-called journalists made up to drum up website hits. I’d be extremely surprised if such a meeting took place and they actually were stupid enough to allow it to be leaked. Also, I thought it was against the rules for teams to contact other team personnel under contract while the season was still going on, so there’s that.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Aisle424Quote Reply
I left this comment on Brad’s article and figured I’d post it here:
I tend to believe that people go where they’re paid the most. Time after time this has proven to be true. There are situations in which it hasn’t, but I don’t believe anybody can accurately predict what those circumstances are.
Baseball is a business and I can’t help but think someone as smart as Friedman understands that. As such, he knows his job is dependent on the success and that’s despite his close relationship with others in the organization. He has to know this. If he doesn’t then he’s obviously someone I don’t want the Cubs to hire. I don’t believe he’s that naive though. I don’t believe he thinks the Rays have as much loyalty to him as Rays fans think Friedman has to the Rays.
If the Rays fail, they won’t hesitate to fire Friedman. If the fan base turns on him, and in that market with that amount of money it could easily happen, management won’t care about their close relationship. It’s business.
As a result, I find it hard to believe that he’s so loyal that he wouldn’t take another job. Management obviously isn’t that loyal to him so methinks any intelligent person will see that (and Friedman is intelligent).
In 3 or 4 years there will be another GM who is considered the best. If I’m Friedman, I’m setting out this offseason to make bank on that reputation because it will end before long. Beane was the best a decade ago, 5 years ago Theo and now Friedman.
And if those close to me are really that close they’ll be happy for me. If they aren’t, I’ll be even happier I left.
mb21Quote Reply
For one thing, the Cubs can’t have talked to Beane. It’s tampering. The idea the Cubs sat down with a person employed by another team, who also happens to be part-owner, is absurd in my opinion. I think the likelihood of them having talked to Beane is equal to the likelihood they talked to me about that job.
mb21Quote Reply
I think there are ways for people to have conversations that skirt the tampering rules, but definitely nothing explicit could have been said (within the rules).
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]
It’s funny because Cubs fans wanted Mark Cuban who probably would have been running rough-shod over whoever his GM was every time something wasn’t going exactly the way he liked it.[/quote]
I’m not sure about that, didn’t he hire Don Nelson and let him run things? At this point whether you were for against Cuban as Cubs CEO it’s not really relevant. We can only evaluate Ricketts based upon what he does, not what Cuban may or may not have done. Plus, Cuban won a title thus debunking Al which I will always love. (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21] It’s tampering. [/quote]
Ah, that was the word that I meant but couldn’t get out!
How big of a pot of $ do you think they have to throw at Friedman? I heard the Astros wanted him as well and that he’d likely go there since he’s from Houston, but that was mostly secondhand.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I don’t think the Cubs have talked to Beane directly either. I also agree with mb’s remarks about Friedman and his loyalty to the Rays.
melissaQuote Reply
Off topic: I really wish I had been in San Francisco for this…
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/09/star-wars-giants/?pid=4765&pageid=78490&viewall=true
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Remember when Alfonso Soriano had wheels? *sad face*
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=3349668
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I think there are ways for people to have conversations that skirt the tampering rules, but definitely nothing explicit could have been said (within the rules).[/quote]Yeah, like a meeting between Rickets, company and Beane. There are ways to get around the tampering rules, but meeting up face to face to talk about a job isn’t one of them. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Ah, that was the word that I meant but couldn’t get out!
How big of a pot of $ do you think they have to throw at Friedman? I heard the Astros wanted him as well and that he’d likely go there since he’s from Houston, but that was mostly secondhand.[/quote]I don’t know, RC. I don’t think anybody can say that it’s not gonna happen based on his friendships in that organization. I’m assuming Friedman isn’t naive enough to think he’s got a job as long as the friendships remain. Because of that I’m sure he’d listen.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I don’t think the Cubs have talked to Beane directly either. I also agree with mb’s remarks about Friedman and his loyalty to the Rays.[/quote]I think most people who work in professional sports know that there is no such thing as loyalty. Assuming the Rays want to win, they’d easily fire Friedman is shit didn’t work out at some point. There wouldn’t even be a question about it. if there was, the Rays should be eliminated as an organization.
mb21Quote Reply
http://twitter.com/#!/JeffPassan/statuses/111147014485573632
This is different. Passan has a source(s).
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m not sure about that, didn’t he hire Don Nelson and let him run things? At this point whether you were for against Cuban as Cubs CEO it’s not really relevant. We can only evaluate Ricketts based upon what he does, not what Cuban may or may not have done. Plus, Cuban won a title thus debunking Al which I will always love. (dying laughing)[/quote]
His feud with Cubes isn’t half as hilarious as his tendency to point to the Yankees as proof that money != championships
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I’m not sure about that, didn’t he hire Don Nelson and let him run things? At this point whether you were for against Cuban as Cubs CEO it’s not really relevant. We can only evaluate Ricketts based upon what he does, not what Cuban may or may not have done. Plus, Cuban won a title thus debunking Al which I will always love. (dying laughing)[/quote]
From what I remember most of the positive statements about Cuban’s ownership was that he upgraded player facilities, gave players lots of perks, marketed the hell out of the team, and of course was willing to spend money, all in the name of giving players an incentive to actually come to such a historically shitty franchise. I have no idea how much he was involved in the actual signing processes.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Remember when Alfonso Soriano had wheels? *sad face*
http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=3349668%5B/quote%5DWhat do you mean, “when”?
Eric Karros clearly states on the 2011 version of MLB The Show that “he has the legs of a greyhound.”
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]
[/quote]
I guess they weren’t letting this poor guy have dinner.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Stras is sure throwing a lot of fastballs.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Stras is sure throwing a lot of fastballs.[/quote]I predicted that Ted Lilly would not throw as hard as Strasburg tonight.
mb21Quote Reply
Ted’s fastball has touched 89. That’s only 1 mph slower than Steve’s changeup.
ACTQuote Reply
Through 3, Strasburg has 2 K’s. LIlly has 7.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Through 3, Strasburg has 2 K’s. LIlly has 7.[/quote]
Clearly the Cubs need to trade the farm system for Strasburg, then flip him for Lilly.
BerseliusQuote Reply
(dying laughing) at the bro-hug between Phillips and Soto.
binkyQuote Reply
Baseball is a strange game.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Through 3, Strasburg has 2 K’s. LIlly has 7.[/quote]So Lilly is more than 3 times better than Strasburg.
mb21Quote Reply
Radio announcers are talking about how Rodrigo has troubles from 6th inning onwards and the the meat of the Reds lineup is coming up. Obvious question: Why is Rodrigo still pitching?
ACTQuote Reply
Quade doesn’t believe in lifting pitchers until they self-destruct or have a ridiculously high pitch count.
ACTQuote Reply
If there’s one thing that really pisses me off about Quade is that he has no idea when to take a pitcher out.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Quade doesn’t believe in lifting pitchers until they self-destruct or have a ridiculously high pitch count.[/quote]That’s strange. He hasn’t been good the third time through the lineup all season. I know the sample set will be smaller, but he just doesn’t fool people more than twice. Except the Yankees.
binkyQuote Reply
It pisses me off more when he lets the pitcher hit first.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Except the Yankees.[/quote]I think it’s Doug Davis you’re thinking of there.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]He hasn’t been good the third time through the lineup all season. I know the sample set will be smaller, but he just doesn’t fool people more than twice[/quote]Here are the career #’s http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=lopezro02&year=Career&t=p#times
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]I think it’s Doug Davis you’re thinking of there.[/quote]Damn it! I already forgot about Doug Davis (dying laughing)
binkyQuote Reply
Looking over the roster trying to remember who the fifth starter was (the one I couldn’t remember was Randy Wells) and I see they called up some scrubs.
binkyQuote Reply
I think the fifth starter is supposed to be Casey Coleman.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Hollandsworth and Kaplan are terrible singers.
ACTQuote Reply
Cashner was the fifth starter. Then Casey. Then Doug. Then they tried both Lopez and Ortiz (Lopez won, obviously).
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Cashner was the fifth starter. Then Casey. Then Doug. Then they tried both Lopez and Ortiz (Lopez won, obviously).[/quote]
Oh, I thought he meant right now.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I just meant the one I couldn’t remember not the “official” fifth starter.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Hollandsworth and Kaplan are terrible singers.[/quote]”And now with the seventh inning stretch–“
[MUTE]
binkyQuote Reply
Jon Lovitz’s stretch was pretty awesome. I like Jon Lovitz.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Jon Lovitz’s stretch was pretty awesome. I like Jon Lovitz.[/quote]His singing was fine. His-post stretch interview was annoying.
ACTQuote Reply
Man, Byrd is having a rough stretch. I keep hoping he’ll get hot, if only to silence the Byrd-haters.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Hollandsworth and Kaplan are terrible
singers.[/quote].
melissaQuote Reply
Yes.
ACTQuote Reply
74 pitches through 8 innings for Leake. 74 goddamn pitches .
ACTQuote Reply
DeWitt pinch-hits for Soto. WTF?
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]DeWitt pinch-hits for Soto. WTF?[/quote]
Gotta let the kids play, y’know.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]DeWitt pinch-hits for Soto. WTF?[/quote]Punishment for the bro-hug.
binkyQuote Reply
Average speed for Castro.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Starlin breaks up the 1-hitter.
ACTQuote Reply
Castro with a lazy infield single.
binkyQuote Reply
LaHair!
ACTQuote Reply
Why didn’t Campana run for Soriano after the HBP to prevent Byrd from GIDP? I thought that was an obvious pinch-run.
Okay, LaHair gets to play some more.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
LaHair–> LaGone
melissaQuote Reply
LACOIF!
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]DeWitt pinch-hits for Soto. WTF?[/quote]Pinch-hitting Barney for LaHair, on the other hand…
ACTQuote Reply
er.. LaHair for Barney.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Pinch-hitting Barney for LaHair, on the other hand…[/quote]
That was SMRT.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Of course if Marmol shits the bed…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]LaHair![/quote]That was a bomb!
mb21Quote Reply
If you were the Cubs, do you let Marmol go another inning? Might be playing with fire, as he had to throw 19 pitches.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
NOW Campana will pinch-run.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Q had them right where he wanted them RC. Saving Campy for the 10th. Duh.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]Q had them right where he wanted them RC. Saving Campy for the 10th. Duh.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure he told Campana back in July that he’d be pinch-running for Sori tonight.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I just watched the last two episodes of Breaking Bad back to back.
Fuckin’ a.
GBTSQuote Reply
Big power.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]
Big power.[/quote]He does that 30-35 times in a season, he’d be all right.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=josh]He does that 30-35 times in a season, he’d be all right.[/quote]
It would be nice, but I’ll take a wait-and-see approach.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I will seriously (dying laughing) if Baker GIDPs on the first pitch.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I will seriously (dying laughing) if Baker GIDPs on the first pitch.[/quote]yeah
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I will seriously (dying laughing) if Baker GIDPs on the first pitch.[/quote]
Third pitch. I’ll (dying laughing) anyway.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
WPA for LaHair homer: .487
WPA for Baker GIDP: -.337
ACTQuote Reply
Disappointing GIDP, but overall, this has been a good game.
binkyQuote Reply
LaHair’s homer…through the wind!
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18911283&topic_id&c_id=mlb&v=3&tcid=fb_video_18911283
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Actually, I can name 2 scouting directors off the top of my head: Tim Wilken and Matt Arnold. A couple years ago you could have added Jack Z to that list, but he’s now a GM. Can someone here even name 10 GMs off the top of their head?[/quote]
Daniels Texas
Z Seattle
Friedman tb
Anthopolous tor
Beane oak
Cashman nyy
Moore kc
Williams chw
Dombrowski det
Moreno laa
Colletti lad
Towers az
Saben sf
Epstein bos
Jocketty cin
Mozalik stl
Ryan min
So I’m a bit of a show off…
Snyds01 22Quote Reply
Man, the first couple pickoff attempts, I was thinking Sean had the worst move in history and wondered why he even bothered. Shut me right up.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]LaHair’s homer…through the wind!
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18911283&topic_id&c_id=mlb&v=3&tcid=fb_video_18911283%5B/quote%5DI happened to be watching on the Live Peak In function. I haven’t seen the other fly ball outs, but that one looked like a no-doubter off the bat.
binkyQuote Reply
I will (dying laughing) if the Cubs win on a Koyie walk-off.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Man, the first couple pickoff attempts, I was thinking Sean had the worst move in history and wondered why he even bothered. Shut me right up.[/quote]That’s what Cairo was thinking too.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I will (dying laughing) if the Cubs win on a Koyie walk-off.[/quote]I’ll take a Koyie doesn’t strike out.
binkyQuote Reply
Walking Koyie Hill should be punishable by death.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Chc and bal don’t have one and col, was, sd, cle, pit and mil and phi escape me but I would know them when I hear them. Hou is in a state of change so I have zero clue there. I don’t know nym, fla, atl, at all.
Snyds01 22Quote Reply
Captain Fundamentals with a great non-slide into 2nd to avoid the force out. (dying laughing)
melissaQuote Reply
TOOTBLAN!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Sure, hit the ground-rule double after the TOOTBLAN (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I wonder if Castro’s caught stealing was a hit and run. Montanez took a swing at a bad pitch and Castro was looking in at the plate.
melissaQuote Reply
Yes, I’m pretty sure the hit-and-run just claimed another victim there.
ACTQuote Reply
That’s why you have to get a good jump, even on a hit-and-run.
ACTQuote Reply
Sosa knows how to have a good time.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Campana wuz hosed.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Campana wuz hosed.[/quote]That’s at least the second time the first base ump messed up (the other was the Castro pickoff).
ACTQuote Reply
Although I’m sympathetic to Quade’s difficulty in working with a limited roster, I do wish he could have found a way to allow Marshall to pitch more than one inning.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Although I’m sympathetic to Quade’s difficulty in working with a limited roster, I do wish he could have found a way to allow Marshall to pitch more than one inning.[/quote]
He did the original double-switch that could’ve allowed Marmol to go multiple innings, which I guess you don’t really want to do.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Eh, it wouldn’t have been a terrible idea. The longer you can go without bringing Grabow in, the better.
ACTQuote Reply
Cubs —-> eliminated
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Cubs —-> eliminated[/quote]It’s all Grabow’s fault! Well, him and Jeff Baker.
ACTQuote Reply
At least the elimination game was epic.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Snyds01 22]Daniels Texas
Z Seattle
Friedman tb
Anthopolous tor
Beane oak
Cashman nyy
Moore kc
Williams chw
Dombrowski det
Moreno laa
Colletti lad
Towers az
Saben sf
Epstein bos
Jocketty cin
Mozalik stl
Ryan min
So I’m a bit of a show off…[/quote]Bill Smith is the GM of the Twins not Terry Ryan. It’s been a few years since he stepped down.
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=JMan]Bill Smith is the GM of the Twins not Terry Ryan. It’s been a few years since he stepped down.[/quote]
I looked later…missed laa too
Snyds01 22Quote Reply
This is actually on my FB newsfeed:
Suburban kid 22Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Although I’m sympathetic to Quade’s difficulty in working with a limited roster, I do wish he could have found a way to allow Marshall to pitch more than one inning.[/quote]I couldn’t stay up to finish the game, and I’m glad. I hate sacrificing sleep for disappointment, Grabow style.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Snyds01 22]Daniels Texas
Z Seattle
Friedman tb
Anthopolous tor
Beane oak
Cashman nyy
Moore kc
Williams chw
Dombrowski det
Moreno laa
Colletti lad
Towers az
Saben sf
Epstein bos
Jocketty cin
Mozalik stl
Ryan min
So I’m a bit of a show off…[/quote]Yeah, it’s fairly easy to name 10 GMs if you pay attention to baseball as much as we do, but there’s no way the average fan knows. There’s even less of a chance the average fan could name 2 scouting directors and probably not even 1 farm director.
What’s interesting to me about your list is that those are pretty much the names I’d have come up with minus Moreno. I always forget about him. There’s also Andy MacPhail, Sandy Alderson and Antonetti.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Although I’m sympathetic to Quade’s difficulty in working with a limited roster, I do wish he could have found a way to allow Marshall to pitch more than one inning.[/quote]Agreed. No reason he couldn’t go 2 innings there.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Snyds01 22]Chc and bal don’t have one and col, was, sd, cle, pit and mil and phi escape me but I would know them when I hear them. Hou is in a state of change so I have zero clue there. I don’t know nym, fla, atl, at all.[/quote]I thought MacPhail was the GM in Baltimore. Neil Huntington is the GM for Pittsburgh and Doug Melvin in Milwaukee. Have the Astros fired Wade yet?
mb21Quote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
Who is Al talking about?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Headline: “Grabow visits Children’s Memorial Hospital”
I guess he showed them what he does for a living by lobbing slow fastballs for them to hit out of the park.
binkyQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Who is Al talking about?[/quote]
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/9/6/2408444/is-tom-ricketts-our-new-gm
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
I wonder how much the allure and prestige of the Cubs GM job will overshadow any ego-slamming from the Fielta and possible Wilken extensions. I just don’t understand how a new GM would be offended by this, especially if it hasn’t been explicitly mandated by the owner that they HAVE to keep the existing employees. *shrug*
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Some team went somewhere.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Some team went somewhere.[/quote]
This should have been an Unobstructed View.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Rulesfags, what say ye?
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18928863
Rice CubeQuote Reply
It will also be official at some point.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, it’s fairly easy to name 10 GMs if you pay attention to baseball as much as we do, but there’s no way the average fan knows. There’s even less of a chance the average fan could name 2 scouting directors and probably not even 1 farm director.
What’s interesting to me about your list is that those are pretty much the names I’d have come up with minus Moreno. I always forget about him. There’s also Andy MacPhail, Sandy Alderson and Antonetti.[/quote]
I thought Moreno was the owner of the Angels, not the GM
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]It will also be official at some point.[/quote]
When will it be officially official?
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I thought Moreno was the owner of the Angels, not the GM[/quote]You’re right. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/articles/major-league-baseball/the-problem-with-war.html
mb21Quote Reply