Jason Heyward talks progressing, sources tell @Ken_Rosenthal and me. #Cubs, #STLCards, others among finalists to sign him. @FOXSports
— Jon Morosi (@jonmorosi) December 10, 2015
If the Cubs do in fact sign Heyward, are they the best team in baseball entering the 2016 season?
Comments
Just once, it would be nice to see the Cubs go for the jugular. This is that kind of move.
It would also be nice to see this FO stay true to their building principles and not bypass the one FA that fits perfectly into the original scheme. Cuz while I do believe we’re better on paper already going into 2016, it’s debatable. What is not is that this roster has gotten older and more expensive.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Levine seems to think Theo’s just keeping the price high and that Gordon is the preferred choice. Weak, if true.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
dmick89Quote Reply
This.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
I was about to post something similar. Giants believe Heyward chooses today and it’s down to Cubs and Cardinals.
Come on, Theo. If we’re coming this far, close the motherfucker. No points for second place.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
So far, the Cubs are a non-factor in the rule 5—no selection for them, no selections of any of their guys.
ceruleanQuote Reply
+1 LSA Rec’d turn it green NAMBLA
berseliusQuote Reply
Make him an offer he can’t refuse.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Heyward is the first free agent to fit into the so called Cubs Way in that he’s young and entering his prime. You’re not paying a premium for his post-prime years like they are for Zobrist and Lackey. Not that those are bad deals. I don’t think they are, but Heyward might be the only player like like that that comes along for some time. It sounds like a lot of teams are scared of Heyward so the price is probably going to be even better than what he deserves.
So you’ve got the perfect player who can for at least a few years play CF, which the team needs and he’s probably going to come at somewhat of a discount, though he’ll still cost a lot of money.
More than likely, the next player to enter free agency at Heyward’s age will have a good shot at breaking the record for most ever paid to a player. Heyward won’t come close. There’s not going to be a better situation than this during Thoyer’s tenure in Chicago.
dmick89Quote Reply
RynoQuote Reply
(dying laughing), if only Jim Hendry were the GM of 25 other teams in baseball.
berseliusQuote Reply
Ryno,
????
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
Did you read that article? It’s crazy. I read it yesterday and immediately wondered what decade it was. I do think I can point out the comment made by Joe Maddon. I believe it was the first quote from a manager. I’d bet money that was Maddon.
dmick89Quote Reply
I’m just glad the Cubs front office aren’t idiots. I’m positive they aren’t scared of signing Heyward if they get the chance.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
Seriously, that was like a time warp.
berseliusQuote Reply
Yeah, if I was a general manager, I’d be trying to find out which managers made those comments. Then I’d fire them.
dmick89Quote Reply
The best thing about Heyward is that he addresses needs and weaknesses of the Cubs—outfield defense, center field, strikeout rate—while his weakness is the one the Cubs don’t need help with—power—though he can still hit 15–20 homeruns a year.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Part of me is still convinced Heyward is, and has always been, Plan Everything for this offseason. Cubs only feinted at Price, and every move since then seems to have been constructed around making sure they could still make this move. So I’d be pretty surprised (and pissed off) if their offer isn’t anywhere near what the Cardinals are doing, and this is just screwing around and making sure the Cardinals don’t get a BFIB discount.
I also am reminded that Theo typically gets his man. At least when Brian Cashman isn’t involved.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
If the dollars are close, have to think the Cubs have all the little shit too. The players’ manager to end all players’ manager in the dugout and baseball immortality to offer. I usually don’t put much stock in such things, but that + location seemed to sway Zobrist into taking a little less. Never got the impression Heyward and the Cardinals ever became BFFs.
Anyway, I’ll stfu now. I’m babbling.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
dmick89,
I definitely read that comment in Maddon’s voice. It is his style of speaking. And the substance fits too.
ceruleanQuote Reply
I’m just worried that Heyward is on the wrong side of 30 for the Cubs’ New Plan, and with him only aging 1 year per year, who knows how long it will take him to reach his mid 30’s? I think the Cubs should kick the tires on Gardner again.
MillertimeQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
Keep going. It was a good babble. Unless Heyward has been talking to LaTroy Hawkins, I doubt the Cubs’ intangibles are going to be a negative.
ceruleanQuote Reply
I’m dumb, disregard
MylesQuote Reply
But do it in such a way that they get great recs for anyone else who wants to hire them.
berseliusQuote Reply
Millertime,
It may take 7 or 8 years for him to approach the mid thirties—but that’s why it’s an investment. Sign him for 10 years and the prime of the mid-thirties are covered.
ceruleanQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
berseliusQuote Reply
Just in case anyone else is as dumb as Myles, this is the article.
(dying laughing)
ceruleanQuote Reply
Don’t tell me what to do.
berseliusQuote Reply
Question on pronounciation:
Does WAR rhyme with car, core, or care?
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
It rhymes with faget.
RynoQuote Reply
Ryno,
*checks to see if this d-bag is also advocating repealing the 26th amendment, increasing age restrictions for the military*
berseliusQuote Reply
Ryno,
That’s French, right?
ceruleanQuote Reply
berselius,
He should stick to ejaculating Andrew Luck batter.
RynoQuote Reply
cerulean,
Yes. The literal translation is R+RBI.
RynoQuote Reply
Or if he swings by Chino to visit Milton Bradley.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
I’m not pleased that it’s been at least 30 minutes since the last pundit said maybe something might happen today.
I need constant reassurance that something might, otherwise I might start thinking it won’t.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
Or if he consults Jacques Jones.
UrkQuote Reply
https://twitter.com/JulieDiCaro/status/675026288936165377
Cubs have inside track, Cards turning to Davis…allegedly.
TheVanQuote Reply
TheVan,
Oh Please DeRosa make this true. I don’t have much in my life.
MuckerQuote Reply
So before the Cubs sign Heyward, I hope they remember one thing: Did you see what happened when America tried to convert to the metric system? I rest my case.
MillertimeQuote Reply
Is there really no way to bring back the like button? Sitting at my desk and saying to myself “ha, I like that”, is somehow far less satisfying than hitting a like button. Or social media has ruined me forever.
TheVanQuote Reply
Fixed to reflect our new step-mid-thirties-supersub.
berseliusQuote Reply
The like button plugin options for wp are oddly hackable.
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
I wonder if Zobrist reaches DeRosa’s level of Cub fandom. If he does, that’ll be impressive.
MuckerQuote Reply
Outlook not so good.
MylesQuote Reply
I’m certain Heyward goes to the Angels.
Source: Arte Moreno is a crazy, crazy motherfucker
MylesQuote Reply
Use thunderbird instead.
berseliusQuote Reply
Speaking of the Angels, wow does the C.J. Wilson contract look terrible. BR has Wilson worth 0.4 WAR for his career. Fangraphs likes him more, but using them he’s producing 7.4 WAR over the last 4 seasons.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
JonKneeV,
It’s not even the worst contract Moreno has given out. Honestly, if the next tweet you saw said “Heyward 9/232, no-trade, opt out after 4 years (of 4/100)”, what team would you have to expect signed him to that shit sandwich? It’d have to be the Angels.
MylesQuote Reply
Urk,
That’s Jack Jones to you.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Myles,
And they’ll still finish behind the Astros. Maybe behind the… who else is in that division? (dying laughing)
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Levine’s obsession with one Alexander Gordon is reaching Yellon-Nolasco levels.
Never mind he makes no sense for this team.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Will there be an immediate post once Heyward signs somewhere? I’m trying to vote with my mouse and give OV more views than mlbtr
kevinQuote Reply
BN says Stark says 8 or 9 years at $24m per.
EnricoPallazzoQuote Reply
kevin,
Not from me if it happens before 7 pm MT today
berseliusQuote Reply
EnricoPallazzo,
If so, do it. I can live with that. Even got some room to hit value there.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
We need a placebo button, one you can click that changes nothing. Problem solved.
ceruleanQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I’d try to do 10 years at $200M with an opt-out after 5.
ceruleanQuote Reply
HUGE NEWS THAT YOU ARE ALL LOOKING FORWARD TO:
The Leftovers are renewed for a 3rd season.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
However you want. I use the bolder one.
dmick89Quote Reply
JonKneeV,
Fuck yeah!
dmick89Quote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
Broxton ———> StL
(dying laughing) at the people who think this means they won’t be able to afford Heyward now.
berseliusQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I wonder if John Lackey is trying to lure him to Chicago now too. Couldn’t hurt. I’d bet the Cubs asked him to reach out to him via text or something.
dmick89Quote Reply
Why would they sign Broxton for 2 years? Surely 1 year would have gotten the job done.
dmick89Quote Reply
full no-trade clause for Broxton. (dying laughing)
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
(dying laughing)
berseliusQuote Reply
Hey man. The ball was in Broxton’s court. He was drawing a TON of interest. They had no choice.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
Talents like Broxton just aren’t available during the Winter Meetings very often.
Usually, they are available when their team designates them for assignment.
MylesQuote Reply
Heyman says the Nats were the #mysteryteam in on Heyward
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
And that he has at least one $200 million offer already.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
And that it’s probably not from the Cubs.
TheVanQuote Reply
dmick89,
Sure hope it’s the Cubs
berseliusQuote Reply
Yeah, same here. Read earlier he was looking for something like $24 million per year. 9/216 and even throw in an opt out after the 5th year.
dmick89Quote Reply
Cubs reportedly checking in on Carlos Gomez. Astros also said to be shopping George Springer. I’d assume the ask on Springer is outlandish.
Wenningtons Gorilla CockQuote Reply
pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
uncle daveQuote Reply
(dying laughing) is this a real thing? I’d google, but my work computer is monitored..
KevinQuote Reply
Kevin,
It was reported earlier the Cubs were still inquiring about Gomez and Parra. They kind of have to cover their bases.
dmick89Quote Reply
I thought he just wanted to know if Wennington really has a gorilla’s cock
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Suburban kid,
I wouldn’t know. I’ve never see a gorilla cock.
dmick89Quote Reply
56% of Viva El Birdos visitors thinks Cubs will sign J-Hey.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-analysis/2015/12/10/9883454/mlb-free-agent-targets-chicago-cubs-jason-heyward-mlb-hot-stove-st-louis-cardinals
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Big if true
berseliusQuote Reply
Suburban kid,
That is some cogent writing. Shame the Cubs SN site is run by some…how do you guys put it?
ceruleanQuote Reply
cerulean,
I’m watching you.
MylesQuote Reply
https://mobile.twitter.com/JimBowden_ESPN/status/675123535728279553
dmick89Quote Reply
Edgar Olmos —–> Baltimore
Big loss. Olmos was the key to piloting the Cubs’ new low-tech clubhouse full of thirtysomethings designed to be immune to Cardinals hackers.
GWQuote Reply
This. The name is so absurd that I had to know the backstory
KevinQuote Reply
Seems the rumor momentum has swung to the Natties.
Starting to remind me of the Lester thing last year. Thought for sure he was going to the Giants or Sox for most of it. Was thrilled to be wrong then. Here’s hoping lightning strikes twice.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Smokestack Lightning,
I’ll still put my money on the Cardinals.
dmick89Quote Reply
It’s human nature to look at percentage difference vs absolute difference when dealing with numbers—especially the very abstracted notions of money like millions of dollars. I don’t see Heyward favoring the Nats vs the Cubs (and honestly don’t see the Cards favored either, even though he was part of that team). In fact, I may be biased, but it seems like the Cubs are the most attractive in terms of clubhouse and chance of winning—while the Nats and Cards are by no means slouches in the latter, their window of opportunity seems a bit narrower—and the former might leave something to be desired. The Nats also have a bit of the stink of the Phillies, who were great then suddenly awful as injury and ineffectiveness combined with a bloated payroll left them no flexibility.
So the question—what percentage of additional earnings is negligible enough not to sway a player away from a preferred destination? 2%? 5%? 10%? 20%? Zobrist left 7% on the table, which seems like a reasonable amount. Let’s assume the Cubs are the preferred choice to the Nats. The Nats would have to offer $214M to a Cubs $200M. The Cubs could offer $215M to the Nats supposed $230M deal and still be on equal footing. I like the Cubs’ chances there.
As for the Cards, I don’t see them offering more than $180M because they have cheaper in-house options. Let’s assume they have advantage since Heyward played there. $193M takes care of that. The Cards have done their due diligence, but now that the Nats are involved, I don’t think they have much of a chance. That makes me much happier.
ceruleanQuote Reply
RynoQuote Reply
“Ex-teammate” sounds like a 5 year old.
RynoQuote Reply
And totally not Zack Grienke.
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
Thanks for weighing in. I was getting tired of driving all the content this morning.
RynoQuote Reply
Ryno,
Reminded me of ex-addict. (dying laughing)
dmick89Quote Reply
Here’s the rest of your baseball news for the day.
RynoQuote Reply
dmick89,
(dying laughing). I’d forgotten about that one. I might have to go back and read that thread at that site he went to that one time. #suchpoetry
RynoQuote Reply
cerulean,
I think it’s impossible to know what a person’s priorities might be. It’s why I always say the player will sign for the most money because most of the time they do. There’s strong incentive for them to do so from a personal standpoint as well as for the players who they play with and are a part of the same union they are.
It’s not always the case, but guessing what Heyward’s priorities may be is just that, guesswork.
There could be many factors, but more than likely, money is going to be the top priority. Familiarity could be one too. Player’s manager. Maybe he has a friend on a team. Perhaps he likes the city. Maybe he think this team will be better in the long run. His wife is from there or near there. He likes the schools. Less violence. Better taxes. Maybe he wants to pay more taxes.
My guess is that if the offers are comparable, the Cardinals have the advantage. The lure of winning a championship in Chicago and playing for Maddon or being a part of the Cubs is probably outweighed by the familiarity he has with St. Louis, the players, the organization and his bosses.
Zobrist did take less, but he didn’t take less from the team hew as currently playing on. In fact, he took less to come to a team that he’s probably more familiar with than any other team because of who is running the team on the field. That’s not the case here with Heyward.
dmick89Quote Reply
Ryno,
(dying laughing) best thread ever. Every once in awhile I remember the ex-addict remark because it so totally encapsulates his complete and utter stupidity about everything.
dmick89Quote Reply
Zobrist cited closeness to his home, and you hear that one a lot — although it didn’t play with the homeboy that is Samardzija when it came to his big contract.
Someone on BN pointed out Heyward’s home is Atlanta, and therefore WAS could be a preference because it’s closer and he’d be visiting his home city more often. But maybe he not only likes to pay more taxes but he also wants to visit his folks less?
Suburban kidQuote Reply
dmick89,
I still think congratulations are in order for becoming the first ex-addict. I think we should celebrate with some jumbo shrimp.
RynoQuote Reply
dmick89Quote Reply
Agree. Cerulean’s post was pretty much steaming garbage
sharpchicityQuote Reply
dmick89,
I was going for the paradox, but this works better.
*fire emoji *100 emoji
RynoQuote Reply
I must have missed the whole “ex-addict” thread stuff. What’s the deal?
MillertimeQuote Reply
sharpchicity,
Steaming garbage is a little harsh, but yeah, I think the situation is too different from one player to another to have any idea where he may land. Best bet is a return to St. Louis simply because that’s where he was at.
dmick89Quote Reply
Millertime,
This guy who used to come around ACB many years ago called me an ex-addict as if to insult me. I’ve never hid the fact that I’m an alcoholic and drug addict. Been sober for 15 years now so he called me an ex-addict, but once an addict, always an addict.
Ryno might have a link to bbtf that should be required reading because the guy is a complete moron.
dmick89Quote Reply
Just in case: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/newsstand/discussion/the_bad_news_cubs_the_great_rbi_statistic
RynoQuote Reply
Ryno,
Thanks.
dmick89Quote Reply
dmick89,
(dying laughing)
berseliusQuote Reply
It’s healthier than frying it though, you have to admit.
berseliusQuote Reply
This is just pure gold. The number of times he compliments himself has to exceed any other paragraph ever written on the internet.
/gets back to studying data on unicorns
dmick89Quote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
I forget the formula for ZORP2.2 sometimes.
MylesQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
GET OUT
berseliusQuote Reply
Myles,
Wasn’t it like (catcher’s ERA+Taped fingers)/(R+RBI)?
RynoQuote Reply
I wonder whatever happened to that guy. Maybe he was eaten by a grue.
MillertimeQuote Reply
RynoQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
Maybe?
berseliusQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
berselius,
That’s some premature giffing right there.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
It’s the Angels. I feel it in my bones.
MylesQuote Reply
delete
Suburban kidQuote Reply
I think it’s worth it just for the Cardinals being out of the running.
berseliusQuote Reply
No chance.
Right?
RIGHT?!?!?!?!?!
UPDATE: 31.6 MM AAV if true. Just can’t imagine that.
MylesQuote Reply
Yeah, go with mystery team on this one.
Actually, it’ll be more Cublike for Heyward to join the team and drop a flyball to send some other team to the World Series.
RynoQuote Reply
That’s precisely what I was getting at. But to clarify from a different angle, St Loius has the advantage sans money—and even if that advantage was worth twice what Zobrist’s choice of the Cubs was, they still lose to the Nats supposed $230M bid because their in-house options do not justify the outlay. And the Nats are a bit in disarray with a new players’ coach that may not value what Heyward offers, which I took the liberty to assume that the Cubs have the edge there.
Though maybe I shouldn’t post assumptions and extrapolate from them. R+RBIs. If it didn’t happen, it’s a steaming pile of I-90 into Chitown.
ceruleanQuote Reply
It was a fake account.
MylesQuote Reply
Myles,
Strong discreditation on that forced a delete comment, so yeah
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Nats topped at $200 and it wasn’t enough, fwiw. 9/207 is my guess.
MylesQuote Reply
I agree with all the things that make it appear as though the Cubs will get Heyward, up to and including Heyward saying he will sign with Cubs.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Myles,
Fake.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
Wittenmyer:
Heyward —————-> Cubs
Celebrate, righteous motherfuckers.
Or don’t. It is Wittenmyer, after all.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Some possibly epic trolling from Gordo
berseliusQuote Reply
Wittenmeyer reports Heyward to Cubs.
JonKneeVQuote Reply
https://twitter.com/JonHeymanCBS/status/675377236837560320
Suburban kidQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
Heyman:
Heyward ——————> Cubs
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Heyward:
Heyward ——————-> Cubs
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Cubs are going to win the world serious
berseliusQuote Reply
So lemme get this straight: the Cubs won 97 games last year and have gone out and added three major pieces to the team? What in the actual fuck is going on here?
uncle daveQuote Reply
GIF PARTY!!!!!
JonKneeVQuote Reply
Suburban kidQuote Reply
And apparently, Heyward took less than 200MM to be here.
Fucking Theo Voodoo magic.
“Come here for less… You’ll love it.”
All the free agents:
“Sounds great. Sign me up. For less.”
MLBPA ————————-> Rage
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/cubs-sign-jason-heyward/
dmick89Quote Reply
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
Holy shit.
MylesQuote Reply
I have to say that I feel good about my steaming garbage post because all indications are that’s what happened.
ceruleanQuote Reply
berseliusQuote Reply